Intermittent Starting - 2007 2.5 174 Auto

[britlandscape]

For some time now occasionally on turning the ignition key I get a dull click instead of the starter turning over. I can then turn it off and turn the key again and it starts although sometimes it can take a few attempts. The battery is brand new and the starter motor was replaced because of this problem a couple of years back but as not solved the problem.
A recent example was a couple of weeks in the garage it started straight away, drove 75 miles, stopped for 10 mins and just a dull click and then started at second attempt. Two/Three hours later I completed the same journey, stopped on the drive whilst I unloaded for 10/15 mins and on trying to start dull click and on second attempt started.

Very frustrating!!!!

Anyone else had a similar problem that they have now resolved.

 

[Loz]

have you replaced the starter relay?

 

[briwy]

Could be a bad earth connection if you're sure the battery is OK. Check the terminals are clean and smear a little copper grease on them and check the earth connection to the engine. Both ends, engine and chassis.

 

[britlandscape]

have you replaced the starter relay?
View attachment 17744

Thanks for suggestion. Is there anyway I can tell if the problem is there with out replacing first. Dont really want to go to expense of replacing if it isn't going to resolve it.

 

[britlandscape]

Could be a bad earth connection if you're sure the battery is OK. Check the terminals are clean and smear a little copper grease on them and check the earth connection to the engine. Both ends, engine and chassis.

Thanks for reply. I would hope that the garage that have serviced it and looked at this problem have done this. Also the AA have been out twice and not commented on a problem there.

 

[Loz]

Thanks for suggestion. Is there anyway I can tell if the problem is there with out replacing first. Dont really want to go to expense of replacing if it isn't going to resolve it.

Sale or return?

 

[WelshGas]

For some time now occasionally on turning the ignition key I get a dull click instead of the starter turning over. I can then turn it off and turn the key again and it starts although sometimes it can take a few attempts. The battery is brand new and the starter motor was replaced because of this problem a couple of years back but as not solved the problem.
A recent example was a couple of weeks in the garage it started straight away, drove 75 miles, stopped for 10 mins and just a dull click and then started at second attempt. Two/Three hours later I completed the same journey, stopped on the drive whilst I unloaded for 10/15 mins and on trying to start dull click and on second attempt started.

Very frustrating!!!!

Anyone else had a similar problem that they have now resolved.

You say there is a " dull click ", exactly where does it seem to come from?

If the Battery is ok and the Starter, which has been replaced, works ok then there are 3 possibilities as far as I can see.
1. Poor electrical connections. Remove leads to Starter and clean. Earth lead the same.
2. There are 2 Starter relays as shown in @Loz post. Remove each one and clean contacts.
3. When they replaced the Starter did they replace the Starter Solenoid? If not then this can stick. You could try removing it and cleaning it.

If none of these work then I'm afraid you will have to look at replacing relays and the Starter Solenoid.

 

[2into1]

I had the same problem and needed a starter motor as the contacts (possibly solenoid??) were burning out and taking all the current. Sometimes the starter can be saved, but not always.

 

[britlandscape]

You say there is a " dull click ", exactly where does it seem to come from?

If the Battery is ok and the Starter, which has been replaced, works ok then there are 3 possibilities as far as I can see.
1. Poor electrical connections. Remove leads to Starter and clean. Earth lead the same.
2. There are 2 Starter relays as shown in @Loz post. Remove each one and clean contacts.
3. When they replaced the Starter did they replace the Starter Solenoid? If not then this can stick. You could try removing it and cleaning it.

If none of these work then I'm afraid you will have to look at replacing relays and the Starter Solenoid.

Thanks for suggestions. Its difficult o say where click is from but I would say more likely around steering wheel area or near bulkhead. I dont think it is coming from starter motor.
I have asked the question on whether the solenoid was replaced with starter motor and I have been told yes. Isnt it all in one?

 

[britlandscape]

I had the same problem and needed a starter motor as the contacts (possibly solenoid??) were burning out and taking all the current. Sometimes the starter can be saved, but not always.

I thought the starter motor and solenoid were all combined?

 

[Rich20]

Thanks for suggestions. Its difficult o say where click is from but I would say more likely around steering wheel area or near bulkhead. I dont think it is coming from starter motor.
I have asked the question on whether the solenoid was replaced with starter motor and I have been told yes. Isnt it all in one?

That may be coming from the relay, some of which are behind the lower dash I believe.

 

[2into1]

I thought the starter motor and solenoid were all combined?

It was a few years ago and not sure if I understood correctly even then. There was confidence they'd found the fault (and it wasn't battery), there was some talk of being able to salvage the starter by cleaning / remaking contacts (as often it all worked perfectly), but it needed a new starter in the end.
Your's maybe different as it's later.

 

[WelshGas]

I thought the starter motor and solenoid were all combined?

Possibly, but VW quote different part numbers for Starter and Starter Solenoid.

 

[Loz]

Possibly, but VW quote different part numbers for Starter and Starter Solenoid.

View attachment 17748

Part 6 has a copper disk at the rear that makes connection to the motor below once the gear is engaged, this can get quite arc'ed and prevent the motor from spinning up.

 

[briwy]

Is Item 6 not the activator for the pre- engagement of the starter pinion?? Not the actual current relay which is under the battery as previously mentioned. Bit confusing, can't see why the relay would be on the the starter motor.

 

[Loz]

Is Item 6 not the activator for the pre- engagement of the starter pinion?? Not the actual current relay which is under the battery as previously mentioned. Bit confusing, can't see why the relay would be on the the starter motor.

As you say, the pre-engage unit solenoid(6) has a relay at the battery yes, but the starter motor(1) draws a lot of current so has a massive copper contact at the back end of it to spin up the motor once the dog gear has pre-engaged otherwise the the dog gear would grind into the starter motor if it was already spinning, if you follow.

 

[briwy]

Yes I agree Loz. I think the whole circuit needs checking out properly to see where the problem is. Daft place for relays I think under the battery, makes it difficult to check voltages and circuitry with the battery out for access. Could connect up with jump leads I guess.

 

[britlandscape]

Thanks for all the feedback and advice everyone. Booked into local auto electrician to see if they can find anything. Trouble is they all say that unless the fault is there when they testing nothing will show on equipment. This could go on forever and cost a fortune without having found the fault.

 

[britlandscape]

Just to update everyone that took the time to reply to my question. I ended up having another new starter motor - £310 fitted Bosch exchange. The other lasted just 10,000 miles. Time will tell whether this will bring the problem to an end.