Just put a deposit on my ideal used Cali (2011 T5.1 140 DSG) except it's....

[Max-Felix]

a 180.

Yep.

Agreed a cracking deal on this yesterday, over the moon etc, loads of extras and the perfect spec and colour. Lovely private seller who checks out but mistake in the listing and I never even thought to discuss the engine power - I thought it went well for a 140! Talk about deflated now though.

So, as I've discovered today doing HPI checks etc its, not a 140 but the infamous 180 from 2010/11. This one was registered in Dec 2011.

What to do.

 

[MattBW]

The 180 of that year is harder to sell it seems, so perhaps it was a way to get people to actually test drive it.

It is a tough one, what is the mileage on it?

 

[Max-Felix]

29k but longlife services and looking at the history of servicing first one was a little late too.

Arggghh, absolutely ****** off now. It was spot on bar this.

Going to have to pull out.

 

[T6 CFO]

Better now than grief later. Bad luck. Patience will be rewarded.


Mike

 

[Max-Felix]

Cheers Mike, cannot say how truly gutted we all are, haven't told the kids yet. Seller was innocent in all this I have to repeat.

Somehow, it is going to be very difficult indeed if not impossible IMHO to find a similar one in the exact required spec as this with a ton of extras at the price we agreed.

 

[Ajspicer]

Don't pull out just yet, it would appear that the same problem can occur on later 180 engines and is not confined to 2010/11 T5's, this is well documented on various web sites and facebook pages.

 

[WelshGas]

Cheers Mike, cannot say how truly gutted we all are, haven't told the kids yet. Seller was innocent in all this I have to repeat.

Somehow, it is going to be very difficult indeed if not impossible IMHO to find a similar one in the exact required spec as this with a ton of extras at the price we agreed.

Ask for a £8000 reduction and put the money aside for a ???? possible engine replacement. Not ALL 2010/2011 vehicles were affected . Also, and others will no doubt Disagree, but the initial manufacturing problem was supposedly fixed for MY 2012, so June 2011.
Don't believe ALL the internet chatter. There is NO Class 1 evidence to support any of the theories doing the rounds.
You make the decision rather than others.

 

[WelshGas]

Don't pull out just yet, it would appear that the same problem can occur on later 180 engines and is not confined to 2010/11 T5's, this is well documented on various web sites and facebook pages.

but that is NOT true. There is a lot of Internet chatter from a small group but NO CLASS 1 evidence as to the cause, just a load of theories from quit a small group of disgruntled owners. I don't blame them, but you have to have cause and effect and so far no one has been able to prove anything.

 

[Max-Felix]

Cheers guys but after having waded through numerous topics up to 20 pages on the subject I made the decision earlier this morning. I was aware of the issue before of course and for other reasons not just the engine-lottery I wanted the 140 DSG specifically rather than the 180. The seller was very apologetic, genuine error.

Like all these things those of us on enthusiasts forums think knowledge is widespread but the vast majority of potential Cali owners are ignorant of all these VW faults. Roof, engine whatever.

It was a killer deal though, 180 DSG, 29k, VWSH with tow ball, metallic, roof bars, parking sensors, upgraded infotainment, privacy, VW awning, cruise, MFSW, etc also incl Outwell awning, VW bike rack, mattress topper, roof topper, seat covers, fifth seat, drawer full of accessories etc, etc from a lovely one owner in leafy Surrey stockbroker land. I shall not find another deal like that in a hurry.

I may regret it and cannot tell you how really, really sad we are about missing out. It may well have been fine but the service history was a little erratic, even more strung out than the (IMHO slightly crazy) so called 'longlife' oil regimes that only manifest themselves as premature wear outside any warranty and we all know what VW tell you to do when that happens: "Thank you and on your bike, now **** off".

 

[AlanC]

I was told by VWUK CV customer service that the revised 180bhp engine was introduced in Oct 2011, however some 180 vans younger than that are affected with the high oil consumption problem.

Like you I was chuffed to bits to get a 180 DSG. But from my experience (oil consumption down to a 1ltr every 350 miles, eventually using coolant too, DPF regenerating regularly and finally going into limp mode partway into a 12 hour round trip to Newcastle) I would pull out of that deal and find a genuine 140.

Best of luck with the search.

Alan

 

[Max-Felix]

Thanks Alan, I only finished reading *that* 20 page topic with all your posts at lunch. So sorry for what happened to you.

Just as an afterthought as I saw no discussion of this, was there no question of just getting a used low mileage 140 engine from a written off T5 instead? A good VW independent/enthusiast garage should have been able to source and fit one for a lot less than a VW supplied 180 I would have thought? Having said that of course you then have issues with residuals I guess and wary buyers that would negate any savings.

 

[AlanC]

Interesting thought which I didn't have. I got stuck into arguments with VWUK and so was going down one track.

The one issue with a used engine of any sort is 'how has it been treated before it became available'. It may well be cheaper, but I now have a brand new engine with a 2 year warranty and an increase in the residual value of the van as I found out on Saturday.

Alan

 

[sidepod]

If it was a killer deal then go ahead and do as WG suggests. Negociate the money off, bank it and crack on.

 

[BerndRos]

Interesting thought which I didn't have. I got stuck into arguments with VWUK and so was going down one track.

The one issue with a used engine of any sort is 'how has it been treated before it became available'. It may well be cheaper, but I now have a brand new engine with a 2 year warranty and an increase in the residual value of the van as I found out on Saturday.

Alan

Hi Alan, could you enlarge on the increase in the residual value ?

As you know I also have a new engine. Just had an oil change today after a year and approx 7000 miles with the new engine. Intend to keep it on fixed servicing regime rather than long life.

 

[Aubisque]

I had a look at that one too, didn't pursue due to roof corrosion that I don't fancy sorting.

 

[soulstyledevon]

The 180 is a dog...!!!
Steer well clear of that engine, would be my advice.
Its always disappointing walking away from a cracking deal, but it could save you a load of headaches further down the line.
Keep searching, I'm sure the right one is just around the corner.
Good luck

 

[WelshGas]

The 180 is a dog...!!!
Steer well clear of that engine, would be my advice.
Its always disappointing walking away from a cracking deal, but it could save you a load of headaches further down the line.
Keep searching, I'm sure the right one is just around the corner.
Good luck

Evidence?
I look forward to your in depth response with the appropriate engineering reports from qualified engineers that enable you to make such a comment. I have not found any. Theories and lots of internet chatter, but Class 1 evidence - Nil.
Maybe you can find it and educate us?

 

[525107]

It's a great pity you're missing out on a good deal due to unsubstantiated opinions in a less than public domain, bad news travels fast, and grows arms and legs during the journey. There are far more 180 engines in T5s running perfectly well than there are rogue ones. The VW bi turbo 180 engine is no more a 'dog' than any other VW diesel engine or any other manufacturers' diesel engines. Take an experienced motor engineer with you for a second look at that 'deal' and take on board his opinion before deciding. By experienced I mean one who is old enough to remember when engines were repaired rather than replaced and generally knows how to repair items rather than fit new parts as is the preferred (more profitable) option from dealers these days. They will probably have a good bit of grey hair and possibly the only letters after their names might be YYFE . Good luck finding a good vehicle and look after it once it's yours.
Wullie


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[sidepod]

Well there in lies part of the problem. T5 engines generally don't get repaired, just scrapped/replaced.

 

[soulstyledevon]

Evidence?
I look forward to your in depth response with the appropriate engineering reports from qualified engineers that enable you to make such a comment. I have not found any. Theories and lots of internet chatter, but Class 1 evidence - Nil.
Maybe you can find it and educate us?

It's well documented the problems previous owners have had with this engine. You might like to call it internet chatter, but those who have experienced this costly issue will have a different view.
What's more alarming is the number of issues this unit has against the amount of bi-turbos sold to the other engine across the platform.

You may feel a need to protect something you have invested in. I understand.
But I sure as hell, am not going to recommend to a fellow member/potential owner that the correct way to spend the best part of £30k on a secondhand vehicle is down the bi-turbo route.
If it was my money, I wouldn't look twice at it and would wait and find the more reliable engine base.

Don't expect Volkswagen to come clean about this motor, they won't unless it's a safety issue.
Let's be honest they can't even admit to roof corrosion and we all have that...!!!

 

[BerndRos]

It's well documented the problems previous owners have had with this engine. You might like to call it internet chatter, but those who have experienced this costly issue will have a different view.
What's more alarming is the number of issues this unit has against the amount of bi-turbos sold to the other engine across the platform.

You may feel a need to protect something you have invested in. I understand.
But I sure as hell, am not going to recommend to a fellow member/potential owner that the correct way to spend the best part of £30k on a secondhand vehicle is down the bi-turbo route.
If it was my money, I wouldn't look twice at it and would wait and find the more reliable engine base.

Don't expect Volkswagen to come clean about this motor, they won't unless it's a safety issue.
Let's be honest they can't even admit to roof corrosion and we all have that...!!!

Correct.

It would be grossly irresponsible to encourage a member here to buy a 180biturbo engined Cali on the basis the issues are merely internet chatter.

The issue is further complicated by the fact that even if an engine is not afflicted this week, it could be by next week.

Having had to go through the whole sorry mess myself and end up with a new engine.......

 

[Spartan]

How about a poll on this forum - is such a thing possible and could it be informative? Members who are owners of the BiTDi-engined vehicles (only) could indicate if they have experienced any issues or not.

 

[soulstyledevon]

How about a poll on this forum - is such a thing possible and could it be informative? Members who are owners of the BiTDi-engined vehicles (only) could indicate if they have experienced any issues or not.

Could be useful.
But would only account for a small percentage. You need to look across the entire platform and take into account a lot of people who had the issues may well have sold up and moved on.

 

[BerndRos]

How about a poll on this forum - is such a thing possible and could it be informative? Members who are owners of the BiTDi-engined vehicles (only) could indicate if they have experienced any issues or not.

Could do, but we know what the result would be, owners who have had an issue will be in a small minority.

I think those that already own a Cali with the engine should simply not worry and get on and use their van, in the knowledge that they may have the issue in the future. Nothing they can do at this point. However no point going into denial about the issues that clearly exist.

Those looking to buy one should see if they can take it on a 500 mile trip, prior to buying to test the oil consumption, if ok, buy with the knowledge that maybe the next week, next year, they may have the issue. On the other hand they may never get the problem.

 

[Max-Felix]

Thanks all for the info.

Not sure a poll would bring up much as we are all in a little bubble here, the vast majority of Cali owners let alone 180 owners don't go anywhere near a forum. Googling 180 oil or eye issues though is not an awe enspiring result.

As an aside and I know this is more the sort of thing discussed on vwt4 etc but as the egr is the source of so many issues and expense why don't people delete or blank it more? I believe this can be done from the ecu quite simply going by the little I've read on the subject.