Just put a deposit on my ideal used Cali (2011 T5.1 140 DSG) except it's....

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soulstyledevon said:
It's well documented the problems previous owners have had with this engine. You might like to call it internet chatter, but those who have experienced this costly issue will have a different view.
What's more alarming is the number of issues this unit has against the amount of bi-turbos sold to the other engine across the platform.

You may feel a need to protect something you have invested in. I understand.
But I sure as hell, am not going to recommend to a fellow member/potential owner that the correct way to spend the best part of £30k on a secondhand vehicle is down the bi-turbo route.
If it was my money, I wouldn't look twice at it and would wait and find the more reliable engine base.

Don't expect Volkswagen to come clean about this motor, they won't unless it's a safety issue.
Let's be honest they can't even admit to roof corrosion and we all have that...!!!
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I agree some owners have had problems and required new engines. What I don't agree with is that the cause has been found, over and above that relating to 2010/2011 manufactured engines. Also the numbers involved compared to the numbers sold. Even the supposed survey on the Facebook page has not come up with substantial numbers and in fact there are some vehicles with very high milage and no problems.

One could say ALL T5/T6 Californias are Crap and no one should buy because the roof corrodes. At least we have evidence of this and the numbers affected and that VW have agreed and will undertake repairs and even extended the warranty period. We have Class 1 Evidence for this. Evidence that we DO NOT have relating to ALL 180 BiTurbos are affected.

No one to my knowledge has told anyone, Yes, go ahead buy a 180. On every occasion they have been advised of a possible problem, except for the 2010/2011 engine series which is known. The decision is then upto them.
 
Spartan said:
Apologies - I did search but only in the 'Polls' forum I guess (didn't realise they could appear anywhere).
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No problem, but I doubt if you will get a meaningful response.
 
[/QUOTE] It may well have been fine but the service history was a little erratic, even more strung out than the (IMHO slightly crazy) so called 'longlife' oil regimes that only manifest themselves as premature wear outside any warranty and we all know what VW tell you to do when that happens: "Thank you and on your bike, now **** off.[/QUOTE]

I can completely understand your concern about the 180 engine reliability but long life services really are a non issue. I've run a diesel Octavia to well over 200k on long life services, and have several friends with similar experiences, including a 400k Passat. If the correct spec oil is used then engine wear doesn't kill many engines these days, it's turbos, injectors, ecus, egrs, and sensors.

Check out the mileages on used VAG commercials. 400k plus is common; all on long life services.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk
 
I've got a dsg 180. I didn't know there was a problem. Should I be worried?
 
Julie and Archie said:
I've got a dsg 180. I didn't know there was a problem. Should I be worried?
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Only if you notice heavy oil consumption.
I wouldn't worry otherwise and enjoy the vehicle
 
Did just read on another forum, a guy with a T6 bi-turbo is using 2 litres of oil every 750 miles...!!!
Wonder if this is just an isolated case:(
 
soulstyledevon said:
Did just read on another forum, a guy with a T6 bi-turbo is using 2 litres of oil every 750 miles...!!!
Wonder if this is just an isolated case:(
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In my 2010 van I was using a litre every 300 miles. Note also that the issue develops very very quickly as I went from normal oil consumption to the above in the time it took me to drive from Devon to Germany. Hence my comment, your van may not be afflicted this week, but could be by next week.
 
mjrose said:
It may well have been fine but the service history was a little erratic, even more strung out than the (IMHO slightly crazy) so called 'longlife' oil regimes that only manifest themselves as premature wear outside any warranty and we all know what VW tell you to do when that happens: "Thank you and on your bike, now **** off.

I can completely understand your concern about the 180 engine reliability but long life services really are a non issue. I've run a diesel Octavia to well over 200k on long life services, and have several friends with similar experiences, including a 400k Passat. If the correct spec oil is used then engine wear doesn't kill many engines these days, it's turbos, injectors, ecus, egrs, and sensors.

Check out the mileages on used VAG commercials. 400k plus is common; all on long life services.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk
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Maybe I'm old school but for the vast majority of Cali owners with woefully low mileage (WG and a few others being the exception) then one oil change in four years or whatever to me just does not seem prudent. I know the oil arguments go back and forth about all this and if you plan to move on within the first three years I would not worry about it but if planning on keeping the same vehicle for some time I'd still change the oil/filter once a year, very small cost on a £55k + vehicle all things considered.

Never mind the oil, *regardless* of all this with no MOT/inspection until three years old then I'd much rather have my car up on a ramp at least once a year for general service checks of potential issues with inner walls of tyres, brake pipes, oil leaks etc, etc. Longlife works great for reps pounding motorways so they are not in a garage every 3 or 6 months but with higher mileages they do they will be up for service at least once a year anyway.

Even by VW's own recommendations the vast majority of Cali owners should probably not be on long life:

http://www.volkswagen.co.uk/owners/servicing/regimes

Fixed Service (Time and Distance)
We recommend this service if you are likely to drive less than 10,000* miles in a year, and if you tend to drive in the following way:

  • Mainly city centre driving, short journeys with frequent cold starts
  • High engine loading activities, e.g. frequent hill climbs, driving with your vehicle fully loaded and towing
  • Uneconomical driving using high rpms with heavy acceleration and heavy braking.
Flexible Service Regime (LongLife Service)
We recommend this service if you are likely to drive more than 25 miles a day, and if you tend to drive in the following way:

  • Regular long distance driving
  • Driving at a constant speed with minimum vehicle and engine loading, and minimal towing
  • Economical driving
 
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Agreed.

Had my new engine fitted last year, serviced this week prior to taking abroad for the year. Fixed service for me from now on, and Cali software altered to reflect this on the dash.
 
I personally think longline servicing is aimed at the commercial sector where its easy to cover 30-40k miles a year. For business with a small to large fleet this helps the downtime and reduce costs with a vehicle out of action or the nuisance of arranging workshop trips.

After 3 year these vehicles are chopped in for the latest model, hence lifespan isn't really a concern. This is also being driven forward into the private sector where our "throw it away mentality" no longer requires product to last more than a couple of years. People don't seem to look after and cherish what they have and instead look to the latest thing/trends.

Myself I'm a little old school and tend to look after whatever i purchase.
 
Max-Felix said:
Maybe I'm old school but for the vast majority of Cali owners with woefully low mileage (WG and a few others being the exception) then one oil change in four years or whatever to me just does not seem prudent. I know the oil arguments go back and forth about all this and if you plan to move on within the first three years I would not worry about it but if planning on keeping the same vehicle for some time I'd still change the oil/filter once a year, very small cost on a £55k + vehicle all things considered.

Never mind the oil, *regardless* of all this with no MOT/inspection until three years old then I'd much rather have my car up on a ramp at least once a year for general service checks of potential issues with inner walls of tyres, brake pipes, oil leaks etc, etc. Longlife works great for reps pounding motorways so they are not in a garage every 3 or 6 months but with higher mileages they do they will be up for service at least once a year anyway.

Even by VW's own recommendations the vast majority of Cali owners should probably not be on long life:

http://www.volkswagen.co.uk/owners/servicing/regimes

Fixed Service (Time and Distance)
We recommend this service if you are likely to drive less than 10,000* miles in a year, and if you tend to drive in the following way:

  • Mainly city centre driving, short journeys with frequent cold starts
  • High engine loading activities, e.g. frequent hill climbs, driving with your vehicle fully loaded and towing
  • Uneconomical driving using high rpms with heavy acceleration and heavy braking.
Flexible Service Regime (LongLife Service)
We recommend this service if you are likely to drive more than 25 miles a day, and if you tend to drive in the following way:

  • Regular long distance driving
  • Driving at a constant speed with minimum vehicle and engine loading, and minimal towing
  • Economical driving
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Some good points and it's well worth highlighting VW's recommendations.

My own use is much more akin to the long life regime.

It's worth noting as well that even on long life the longest permitted interval between services is 24 months. If you see a gap in the service history longer than that then it's bad news. If your van is set to long life servicing then it will also monitor the how the engine is used and recommend earlier services than 24months or less than 20k miles as needed. It has been suggested that the van has a sensor which can monitor the condition of the oil but I'm not sure about that...

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mjrose said:
Some good points and it's well worth highlighting VW's recommendations.

My own use is much more akin to the long life regime.

It's worth noting as well that even on long life the longest permitted interval between services is 24 months. If you see a gap in the service history longer than that then it's bad news. If your van is set to long life servicing then it will also monitor the how the engine is used and recommend earlier services than 24months or less than 20k miles as needed. It has been suggested that the van has a sensor which can monitor the condition of the oil but I'm not sure about that...

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Yes, something I found recently but this is a link to slightly older tech so things may have progressed since then:

There is no "Oil quality sensor" the sensor is called the "Oil level/oil temperature sensor" it doesn't measure the quality of the engine it provides data to the ECU which uses stored parameters to calculate the service frequency/oil quality. The Mercedes system actually measures the levels of contaminants in the oil , quite different.

Section from the VW pdf

The Flexible Service Interval Display obtains information from the new oil level/oil temperature sender G266 in order to calculate oil level and oil quality. On diesel engines, the oil quality calculation includes a parameter which indicates the average content of soot particles in the engine oil. This parameter was calculated in trials and is stored in a map.

http://www.volkspage.net/technik/ssp/ssp/SSP_224.p...
 
soulstyledevon said:
Did just read on another forum, a guy with a T6 bi-turbo is using 2 litres of oil every 750 miles...!!!
Wonder if this is just an isolated case:(
Click to expand...
As isolated as the 180 .
 
As he said. Depends on your mileage* of course but a modern run in engine should not really burn any oil bar a dribble between services.

Check the level weekly* and if you notice a significant change maybe think about selling before it worsens?
 
Why not negotiate with seller about getting a compression test done for around £160 at local vw commercial dealer and if results ok agree a deal on replacing the egr which would be around £1200 at vw.
 
Despite some people not wanting to believe that there is a 'big' problem with the cfca engine, it does exist and you only have to look at the Facebook forum under "VW T5.1/T6 excessive oil use for CFCA 2.0 180hp engines," that now has 673 members (including me), that there is huge concern. Many have reported that oil samples are showing excessive amounts of wear and others are suffering from excessive oil consumption.

There are pictures on that forum of EGR that have been cut up to show the internals and there is not much left of them! Those internals entering the engine! There is no doubt in my mind that the EGR is at fault. There is NO other information suggesting an alternative reason for the excessive engine wear.

There are other vehicles in the VW group that have the CFCA engine but tellingly, they do not have the same version of the T5 EGR and have not had any if the same wear problems.

I have this engine in my vehicle and so far, no problems. But I will be having the oil analysed at the next service and keeping a careful watch on consumption. I hope the problem does not materialise for me or others on this forum BUT IT COULD. Current cost of replacing the engine, cat, dpf and other bits is around £8500.
 
I have a 2010 DSG and don't seem to have any problems with it. Has a lot of service history (Not 100%) all done properly with VW longlife oil.
Not sure what the problems are supposed to be though. I was told by someone who works with them that there should be no problems if it's been properly serviced. It's due a service soon so I've decided to take it back to the place that did it before I collected it as I know they'll do it right.
 
Bobbybus said:
Despite some people not wanting to believe that there is a 'big' problem with the cfca engine, it does exist and you only have to look at the Facebook forum under "VW T5.1/T6 excessive oil use for CFCA 2.0 180hp engines," that now has 673 members (including me), that there is huge concern. Many have reported that oil samples are showing excessive amounts of wear and others are suffering from excessive oil consumption.

There are pictures on that forum of EGR that have been cut up to show the internals and there is not much left of them! Those internals entering the engine! There is no doubt in my mind that the EGR is at fault. There is NO other information suggesting an alternative reason for the excessive engine wear.

There are other vehicles in the VW group that have the CFCA engine but tellingly, they do not have the same version of the T5 EGR and have not had any if the same wear problems.

I have this engine in my vehicle and so far, no problems. But I will be having the oil analysed at the next service and keeping a careful watch on consumption. I hope the problem does not materialise for me or others on this forum BUT IT COULD. Current cost of replacing the engine, cat, dpf and other bits is around £8500.
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Not again. You are welcome to your own view and interpretation. 1 EGR valve , no others. 673 members and how many have a problem? Certainly not all by any means. How many 180's built and on the road with no problems? I happen to be a member also and am still waiting for some Class 1 evidence that it is the EGR responsible and not driving style, or some other factor.
I'm not denying there is a problem with some owners vehicles and there certainly was a problem with some CFCA engines built between 2010/2011 that was apparently fixed in mid 2011, and unfortunately some of those affected engines are in Vehicles that are only just getting to the trigger mileage.
Blanking the EGR and deleting the DPF, as advocated in that group are illegal.
Why has no one taken legal action if they are so sure of their evidence?

Just accept, SOME engines have a problem, mainly early models. No one knows the cause. VWCS UK have questionable parentage and refuse to deal with the problem outside warranty. But to say there is a " big " problem with these engines is stretching things a lot.
 
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