Leisure battery being short circuited, dead motor battery

[Ellen Bruce]

Hello, I have had a problem for a few weeks with my interior electrics going straight to my motor battery and killing it within an hour for example if I have the fridge on and the engine off. My local garage in Switzerland tested both batteries, the motor battery was about 80% after a night of charging and the leisure battery was less than 50% so I had it replaced (very expensive!!). Yesterday, the same thing happened again. Under further investigation I have discovered 1) When I turn the engine on there is a clicking noise by the under-seat fuse box which then goes away after a few mins. 2) On the control panel, engine on, I observe when I turn the heating and fridge on, positive ampage and symbol(g). 2) When I turn the engine off and turn the fridge/and or heater on the ampage goes negative and the battery symbol changes to what I assume is the motor battery.

I live in Vaud canton in Switzerland if anyone happens to know of good electricians over here... Can anyone advise? Thanks very much. My first ever post and just joined the site.

 

[WelshGas]

Hello, I have had a problem for a few weeks with my interior electrics going straight to my motor battery and killing it within an hour for example if I have the fridge on and the engine off. My local garage in Switzerland tested both batteries, the motor battery was about 80% after a night of charging and the leisure battery was less than 50% so I had it replaced (very expensive!!). Yesterday, the same thing happened again. Under further investigation I have discovered 1) When I turn the engine on there is a clicking noise by the under-seat fuse box which then goes away after a few mins. 2) On the control panel, engine on, I observe when I turn the heating and fridge on, positive ampage and symbol(g). 2) When I turn the engine off and turn the fridge/and or heater on the ampage goes negative and the battery symbol changes to what I assume is the motor battery.

I live in Vaud canton in Switzerland if anyone happens to know of good electricians over here... Can anyone advise? Thanks very much. My first ever post and just joined the site.

View attachment 56442

View attachment 56443

Exactly which vehicle have you got?
Your Avatar says a Beach, but the Beach does not have that Control Panel, but the full camper SE or Ocean does.
If you have the SE then the pictures are perfectly normal, almost.

Picture 1. On Leisure Batteries, fridge On. Current draw as fridge is running. However it doesn’t show the Water Tank level.

Picture 2. Engine running and Alternator charging the Leisure batteries with a voltage of 14.5v and 4.8amps.

The Control Panel shows No information about the Engine Battery, only the Leisure Batteries.

You do realise that the California has 2 x Leisure Batteries, one under the L hand front seat and one under the Rear Wardrobe, access via the rear and a panel on the base of the wardrobe.

Also, both Leisure Batteries should be replaced, not just one.

The problem, if you have a SE or Ocean, could be with the Rear Leisure Battery. There is a 50amp Cube Fuse on the red +tve Pole. If this fuse blows then the Leisure Battery capacity is cut by half, giving the problems you mention.

So, check both Leisure Battery voltages and check the Cube fuse on the rear battery.

 

[Ellen Bruce]

Thanks Alan for all that information, it's really kind of you. I actually have a California, I must work out how to change my profile. But first I must find the rear battery and the 50amp fuse cube, quite embarrassing how little I know about my van! (I have time to get to know it more due to lockdown). Hopefully I don't need a second new leisure battery for the rear, they're really expensive here in Switzerland.

Reference the water tank level. I keep my water tank empty in the winter here as last year the water froze and ripped my water pump off and a new one was needed. The water tank is not a good design for cold countries!

 

[westfalia]

Have you ever plugged the van into the mains.

What kind of California is it and what year and also how long
have you owned it.

 

[Ellen Bruce]

No I've never plugged it into the mains, I don't own hookup leads as I mostly wild camp and have never had the need. Should I be doing that every now and then?

I have a California T5, 2015, LHD. I've had it 1.5 years

 

[westfalia]

The van should have come with hook up leads,
it is advisable to plug it in once a month in order to
keep the batteries healthy, otherwise they are only being
charged up whilst you drive along and if you don't drive far it
might not be enough.

 

[Ellen Bruce]

Unfortunately it didn't. It was an import van from Austria to Switzerland. I'll get on to purchasing some. Thanks for the advice!

 

[TripleBee]

You should at least have this:

You can buy this:

I have this: (sort of)

And I have this:


Enough possibilities to get you plugged in almost everywhere.

 

[Ellen Bruce]

Thanks, off to my VW garage tomorrow to order. I hope they're still open, many things are closed now in Switzerland.

I am still confused with why the electrics are short circuiting straight to my engine battery and draining it, but I will be checking all fuses tomorrow. Thank you

 

[Swissian]

Thanks, off to my VW garage tomorrow to order. I hope they're still open, many things are closed now in Switzerland.

I am still confused with why the electrics are short circuiting straight to my engine battery and draining it, but I will be checking all fuses tomorrow. Thank you

Ellen, why do you think that the engine battery is draining? Are you having problems to start the Cali?

Remember, the display does not show information about the engine battery.

The cables can be bought at a camping shop. I wouldn’t go to VW as they will be very expensive. I also know a good shop in Germany that delivers to Switzerland fully imported and taxes paid, if you are interested

 

[Ellen Bruce]

Hi, The engine battery has gone flat 3 times in the last month. The last 2 times I had the fridge on for about 1 hour whilst hanging out in my van and the engine battery went flat and I had to get the van jump started. Even if the leisure battery was flat, the engine battery should never be affected, but there must be a short circuit that is making this happen?

I would be interested to know of the shop in Germany please.

 

[babble]

Hi, The engine battery has gone flat 3 times in the last month. The last 2 times I had the fridge on for about 1 hour whilst hanging out in my van and the engine battery went flat and I had to get the van jump started. Even if the leisure battery was flat, the engine battery should never be affected, but there must be a short circuit that is making this happen?

I would be interested to know of the shop in Germany please.

These could be unrealted, in that your main battery is unwell for some other reason than the fridge. (you say it was tested, and that it was at 80% after a night of charging.....why not 100%? Doesn't sound great to me.) If you have an unhealthy main battery it might not hold charge well, or might be discharging for some other reason. I wouldn't assume its the fridge - even if that is a possibility..

 

[westfalia]

CEE-Adapterleitung Schutzkontakt-Stecker auf CEE-Kupplung 3-polig

CEE-Adapterleitung Schutzkontakt-Stecker auf CEE-Kupplung 3-polig in CEE-Kabel

www.fritz-berger.de

These deliver to you.

You just need one of these, then run an extension cable to the van.

Plugging in is straightforward but when you unplug it from the van
you have to press the blue lever down to release it.

Also, make sure that the trip switch in the rear cupboard is up.
When its all plugged in you will then see a plug symbol on the control
panel where the G is shown on your pic above.

 

[altvic]

When sitting in your van without engine running, do you have radio on for a reasonable period of time? Don't do this as starter battery will drain.

 

[Ellen Bruce]

I have had the radio on the last 2 times, but less than an hour as it automatically switches off. I’m just experimenting today watching my motor battery whilst fridge is on. It seems to be holding 12v.

 

[Ellen Bruce]

CEE-Adapterleitung Schutzkontakt-Stecker auf CEE-Kupplung 3-polig

CEE-Adapterleitung Schutzkontakt-Stecker auf CEE-Kupplung 3-polig in CEE-Kabel

www.fritz-berger.de

These deliver to you.

You just need one of these, then run an extension cable to the van.

Plugging in is straightforward but when you unplug it from the van
you have to press the blue lever down to release it.
View attachment 56458
Also, make sure that the trip switch in the rear cupboard is up.
When its all plugged in you will then see a plug symbol on the control
panel where the G is shown on your pic above.

Thanks very much. Ordering that lead now!

 

[Ellen Bruce]

My local garage helped test things this morning - only one person working for emergencies due to covid.

So it turns out my rear leisure battery is at 0%, my other one was 50% after a night of charging, so had to replace it. Myself and the garage didn't know that there were 2 leisure batteries. He is now going to charge the rear battery and see if it takes it or not. My van is only 2015 (I'm the second owner), so I didn't expect leisure batteries to fail so quickly. Switzerland is cold and I normally only use the van at weekends. I also have not been charging up the leisure battery externally, ever.

As a test, I let my fridge run for about 15mins this morning without the engine on. The engine battery went down to 36%. It was topped up the other day at the garage and was reading about 80/85 % I think and passed its test, not perfect but good enough for now. It probably hasn't helped it has gone completely flat 3 times in the last 5 weeks due to the interior electrics feeding straight into it.

Would a dead leisure battery in the rear re-route the interior electrics to the engine battery. Previously in the summer when using it a lot, the leisure battery would stop and then the fridge would cut off until I start the engine.

Thank you for all your replies I am learning lots!

 

[westfalia]

So it turns out my rear leisure battery is at 0%,

Probably better to replace both leisure batteries.
@TripleBee has a picture of the ones you need.

 

[TripleBee]

Do I?

Well, a little search gives me this:


This are the original batteries, as you will buy them from VW. 000 915 105 CD.
The complete case is black, as it is an AGM.
My starter battery has a white/see-through case with a black top, as my starter battery is just a plain simple lead/acid battery (I have no start/stop).

As for starter battery (I haven't looked at mine quite decently), I don't know what I have. I am guessing a 72Ah/380A DIN.
That would be a 000 915 105 DG. But for those, there is an economy part. This means, cheaper, but less crank ampère. JZW 915 105 A. This is the 72Ah/350A.
If the measurements are good, I could go for a JZW 915 105 B. That would be a 85Ah/400A.

For AGM, VW doesn't supply eco batteries.
If you want cheaper, but also Varta batteries, you must go for the Varta Silver Dynamic AGM F21 Start-Stop plus, if I am correct.
It will be about half the price if you look at the discounts. Somewhere between € 150 and € 200.

For Switzerland I have found this:

https://www.digitec.ch/en/s1/product/varta-silver-dynamic-agm-f21-car-batteries-5760433

Maybe if you look further, you will find more?

 

[Swissian]

The other shop in Germany is www.camping-outdoorshop.de

 

[Ellen Bruce]

Do I?

Well, a little search gives me this:

View attachment 56468
This are the original batteries, as you will buy them from VW. 000 915 105 CD.
The complete case is black, as it is an AGM.
My starter battery has a white/see-through case with a black top, as my starter battery is just a plain simple lead/acid battery (I have no start/stop).

As for starter battery (I haven't looked at mine quite decently), I don't know what I have. I am guessing a 72Ah/380A DIN.
That would be a 000 915 105 DG. But for those, there is an economy part. This means, cheaper, but less crank ampère. JZW 915 105 A. This is the 72Ah/350A.
If the measurements are good, I could go for a JZW 915 105 B. That would be a 85Ah/400A.

For AGM, VW doesn't supply eco batteries.
If you want cheaper, but also Varta batteries, you must go for the Varta Silver Dynamic AGM F21 Start-Stop plus, if I am correct.
It will be about half the price if you look at the discounts. Somewhere between € 150 and € 200.

For Switzerland I have found this:

https://www.digitec.ch/en/s1/product/varta-silver-dynamic-agm-f21-car-batteries-5760433

Maybe if you look further, you will find more?

I've just committed to new motor battery and leisure battery with my local garage. They reckon that should solve all the problems. They said because I live on a mountain (ie v.cold winters here) then batteries definitely don't last as long. I will be charging up my leisure batteries though every month now, just ordered the cable. The garage is really good and local, but I know I am probably paying more . Also I am on Spring break from teaching and wanted to do a journey in my van to get away (self isolating of course). This site is really helpful!!

 

[GSX1300R]

My local garage helped test things this morning - only one person working for emergencies due to covid.

So it turns out my rear leisure battery is at 0%, my other one was 50% after a night of charging, so had to replace it. Myself and the garage didn't know that there were 2 leisure batteries. He is now going to charge the rear battery and see if it takes it or not. My van is only 2015 (I'm the second owner), so I didn't expect leisure batteries to fail so quickly. Switzerland is cold and I normally only use the van at weekends. I also have not been charging up the leisure battery externally, ever.

As a test, I let my fridge run for about 15mins this morning without the engine on. The engine battery went down to 36%. It was topped up the other day at the garage and was reading about 80/85 % I think and passed its test, not perfect but good enough for now. It probably hasn't helped it has gone completely flat 3 times in the last 5 weeks due to the interior electrics feeding straight into it.

Would a dead leisure battery in the rear re-route the interior electrics to the engine battery. Previously in the summer when using it a lot, the leisure battery would stop and then the fridge would cut off until I start the engine.

Thank you for all your replies I am learning lots!

My van is a 2015 140 SE and I had both my batteries replaced under warranty...I have been religiously charging once a month since then but noticed that after about two weeks they were down to 20% without using the van...So I wondered something wasn’t right ..I had a sat nav and camera plugged into the socket on the top of the dash, this socket is run off the leisure batteries. I also switched of the control unit so no lights were showing..I charged the batteries up to 100% and after Two weeks they were on 70%.. I would never have thought that such a small drain would flatten the batteries so quickly..The main control unit has a drain of between.2 and .4 of an amp when you add it up that’s where the problem is...

 

[Ellen Bruce]

My van is a 2015 140 SE and I had both my batteries replaced under warranty...I have been religiously charging once a month since then but noticed that after about two weeks they were down to 20% without using the van...So I wondered something wasn’t right ..I had a sat nav and camera plugged into the socket on the top of the dash, this socket is run off the leisure batteries. I also switched of the control unit so no lights were showing..I charged the batteries up to 100% and after Two weeks they were on 70%.. I would never have thought that such a small drain would flatten the batteries so quickly..The main control unit has a drain of between.2 and .4 of an amp when you add it up that’s where the problem is...

Hi Peter, that's interesting to know. In the winter I leave nothing on and nothing plugged in. But thinking about it I do have a 2 pin plug with cable plugged in, not connected to anything but I think I will unplug it and the cigarette lighter plug (leisure battery one), just in case.. Unfortunately my batteries aren't under warranty and I live in a cold climate, but then it is a ski resort so pros and cons. I will now be charging my batteries at least once a month, more in the winter. Thanks

 

[WelshGas]

My van is a 2015 140 SE and I had both my batteries replaced under warranty...I have been religiously charging once a month since then but noticed that after about two weeks they were down to 20% without using the van...So I wondered something wasn’t right ..I had a sat nav and camera plugged into the socket on the top of the dash, this socket is run off the leisure batteries. I also switched of the control unit so no lights were showing..I charged the batteries up to 100% and after Two weeks they were on 70%.. I would never have thought that such a small drain would flatten the batteries so quickly..The main control unit has a drain of between.2 and .4 of an amp when you add it up that’s where the problem is...

If your SatNav and Camera are plugged into a 12v USB plug, if that is not removed, that will drain the Leisure Batteries.
The Control Panel will show a current draw of 0.2 to 0.4 amps until the Screen goes Off.
As far as I am aware the Current draw then is 0 amps.

 

[TripleBee]

Little update due to too much spare time at the moment:

My starter battery gets charged when on hookup:

As you can or can not see, my starter battery is from week 44, year 2009.
Part number 5K0 915 105 H. 80Ah, 380A DIN.
As a replacement I will need: 000 915 105 DH or the eco JZW 915 105 B

My leisure batteries are (at least the one in the back:

7P0 915 105 A , 75Ah, 420A DIN
As they are AGM, there is no eco.
New part number: 000 915 105 CD. Price? € 350 or more.
As you can see, it has the full black cover:

If you look for replacement: measure carefully as you can see there is no room left for a bigger battery. On the right side there is a foam near the side of the cupboard with just 2 cm left, on the left side, there is only 3cm space left.

I hope I could be at your service.