LiFePO4 batteries

[homerorchid]

Does anyone use "LiFePO4 batteries" instead of usual leisure batteries. I'd be interested to hear any experiences/thoughts

 

[AlanC]

Yes you can use them provided you change all of the batteries, including the engine battery, and re-engineer the charge system including the engine alternator. They are not a direct replacement option.

Given the cost of that and the higher initial cost of the Lithium batteries, I doubt it is worth doing.

It would be possible to change just the leisure batteries and their mains charger. Provided you disconnect the split charge system. They wouldn’t be topped up while you were driving and you would have to put them on charge a lot more often at home to keep them in good condition.

Alan

 

[Skewif]

Can get direct replacements that will charge from std equipment... allegedly. https://www.alpha-batteries.co.uk/1...MIxJbFpb_k3wIVpTXTCh052QF4EAQYDyABEgLApvD_BwE

 

[Loz]

Even though you save space and can drop the charge much lower, they are still too expensive so the cost/benefit is just not there yet.

 

[homerorchid]

Thank you all for your information, very much appreciated. The Alph-Batteries info is very interesting. I'll have to do some more research but if you could directly swop existing leisure batteries for Lithium Batteries as the write-up seems to suggest and the batteries last much longer and could provide you with a constant flow of non hook-up power down to your last 5% of charge, up to 5000 charges (as opposed to a few hundred with lead) the initial cost of £700 (ish) price over it's lifetime "MAY" ! be more viable.

 

[AlanC]

Can get direct replacements that will charge from std equipment... allegedly. https://www.alpha-batteries.co.uk/1...MIxJbFpb_k3wIVpTXTCh052QF4EAQYDyABEgLApvD_BwE

Allegedly is the right word.

Lithum batteries require a constant current charge system. Lead acid ones require a constant voltage charge system.
Irrespective of what that ad is saying, you cannot change the physics.

Lithium Ion battery life may not be as good as promised.
Some good research here.
https://batteryuniversity.com/learn/archive/is_lithium_ion_the_ideal_battery

Alan

 

[AlanC]

This section has a graph of the charge cycle of a Lithium Ion battery.
https://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/charging_lithium_ion_batteries

Initially you can see the current is high and constant, while the voltage is slowly increasing. When the battery is charged the voltage is maintained over time while the current drops quickly away. It is not recommended to trickle charge Lithium Ion batteries as this will damage them.

Your van charger will apply around 14.5volts constantly when charging and will trickle charge the batteies when fully charged to maintain them. Two things the Lithium battery does not want.

The leisure batteries should last 8 years easily, if looked after. My engine battery did 8 years and my leisure ones are still going strong.

I don't think changing your batteries to a very much more expensive type, with all the issues this will raise, such as the cost and the requirement to change the engine one as well, and sort out the charging system, (alternator and onboard charger) is an issue that should be considered seriously.

Alan

 

[Skewif]

But these new LiFePO4 leisure batteries have built in charge controllers so will charge no problem from an alternator or built in charger. They will draw what they need rather than take what they are given. I'd have no hesitation in using them once the price reflects the recent huge drop in cost of manufacturing the cells they use (~£90 per KW). These batteries should cost half what they are asking for. IMO benefits of these latest batteries far outweigh any down side. Bring it on... had enough of lugging around 100+Kg of lead!

 

[Lightning]

But these new LiFePO4 leisure batteries have built in charge controllers so will charge no problem from an alternator or built in charger. They will draw what they need rather than take what they are given. I'd have no hesitation in using them once the price reflects the recent huge drop in cost of manufacturing the cells they use (~£90 per KW). These batteries should cost half what they are asking for. IMO benefits of these latest batteries far outweigh any down side. Bring it on... had enough of lugging around 100+Kg of lead!

I became interested once I discovered they have their own integral self contained charge controllers, but I also recently discovered that they cannot be charged at all below 5 degrees C. Is there any known simple way to overcome this limitation?

 

[WelshGas]

I became interested once I discovered they have their own integral self contained charge controllers, but I also recently discovered that they cannot be charged at all below 5 degrees C. Is there any known simple way to overcome this limitation?

Yes, you warm them. A little self defeating in a Campervan.

 

[Lightning]

Yes, you warm them. A little self defeating in a Campervan.

I suppose you could duct the blown air heating to them. It’s not ideal but it would probably work.

 

[WelshGas]

I suppose you could duct the blown air heating to them. It’s not ideal but it would probably work.

In your situation it could work but means having the heater on continuously. Those who leave the vehicle for extended periods, a different matter. If on hookup there are small electric pads, 12v/230v that could be used.
Most EV vehicles have some form of temperature control for the battery depending on which region they are sold in.

 

[briwy]

Having seen a large LiPo drone battery catch fire for no apparent reason I don't think I would want them inside in campervan.

 

[WelshGas]

I suppose you could duct the blown air heating to them. It’s not ideal but it would probably work.

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https://www.t6forum.com/threads/low-temperature-lithium-battery.24971/

 

[Peter Horvath]

Now it seems there are direct replacements LifePo4 batteries:

LiFePO4 LIX Basic BS

Alle Vorteile eines LiFePO4 Akkus zu einem günstigen Preis. Für erfahrene Wohnmobilisten und auch Einsteiger. Es gibt die Varianten 50 Ah, 100Ah und 150 Ah der Basic Modelle von WATTSTUNDE. Sie sind 1:1 gegen herkömmliche Blei-Säure-Batterien austauschbar.

www.wattstunde.de

Anyone has any experience with these?

Probably when the main leisure batteries I got with the car are end of life.