LifePo4 - drop in replacements. Anybody fitted?

ourfirstcalif · May 8, 2023

Good morning

Has anybody found and used drop in LifePo4 batteries in a California SE that fitted without any modification to both battery trays? I.e under passenger seat and under the storage cupboard at the back?

If so, what brand and Ah?

Was looking at Forgstar 105ah but they're on backlog until end June now.

Thanks!

WelshGas · May 8, 2023

ourfirstcalif said:
Good morning

Has anybody found and used drop in LifePo4 batteries in a California SE that fitted without any modification to both battery trays? I.e under passenger seat and under the storage cupboard at the back?

If so, what brand and Ah?

Was looking at Forgstar 105ah but they're on backlog until end June now.

Thanks!

Some members have talked about it but not sure anyone has done it. It will require some modification of bothe the California split charge relay system , installing a DC to DC system with the correct Lithium charging profile and similarly replacing, possibly, the Mains Charger.
The majority have installed solar panels or a standalone lithium battery pack.

Wannabecamperman · May 8, 2023

WelshGas said:
Some members have talked about it but not sure anyone has done it. It will require some modification of bothe the California split charge relay system , installing a DC to DC system with the correct Lithium charging profile and similarly replacing, possibly, the Mains Charger.
The majority have installed solar panels or a standalone lithium battery pack.

This is the precise reason I went with a LiFePO4 solar generator. The lithium-iron batteries do state that they are a 'drop-in' replacement for the usual AGM batteries, just lighter and allowing better discharge percentage, etc, however on further investigation what Welsh Gas says above is absolutely right. There are different charge profiles for the DC/DC charger so eventually, after much research I went the Jackery/Bluetti route for everything but the fridge.

Bear in mind you CAN charge the Jackery / Bluetti solar chargers from the van when driving - there is a supplied standard 12v cable for this, so charges when on the move and also when stationary with solar from the panels. The best of both worlds in my view, without having to bother with the DC/DC which still charge the original AGM batteries from the alternator.

ourfirstcalif · May 9, 2023

Thanks all.

It's an older California so split charger should be OK, solar has a lithium profile, but the mains charger could be interesting as above. I'm just confused about this drop in title that they claim, suggesting they are good replacements for lead acid, if they are not..

ourfirstcalif · May 9, 2023

Apologies for the second post. The reason I'd want them in the van is to use things like the diesel heater without worry, the fridge etc. I guess I won't get that if I use a Jackery or equivalent?

Thanks

Wannabecamperman · May 9, 2023

ourfirstcalif said:
Apologies for the second post. The reason I'd want them in the van is to use things like the diesel heater without worry, the fridge etc. I guess I won't get that if I use a Jackery or equivalent?

Thanks

Two options:

1) Swap the fridge 12v plug to said Jackery. Not sure how easy that would be. Bear in mind if you're using the Jackery for everything else and just use the AGM batteries for fridge, lights and fan for the diesel heater, those draws aren't massive.

2) By far the best thing about the Bleutti AC200 max is that it doubles up as a EHU! You can actually plug in upto 4 3-pin plugs and then run this via the usual site EHU adapter to the EHU socket! It then powers everything for you and even charges the batteries up - just as you do on hook up.

The run-through ability means it can accept upto 800W solar (I only use 200 as it's all that's needed in the summer) while simultaneously outputting upto 2kW into the van, so on sunny days you end up with leisure batteries and the solar generator fully charged. If going the Jackery route, you'd need a 1500 or 2000 pro to achieve the same.

Ch1pbutty · May 9, 2023

We have 3 solar panels on the roof + one leisure battery. Never had an issue with using the heater or fridge (fridge runs 24/7 whilst parked on the drive, doubles as a beer fridge at home).

Do you really need all the additonal kit that will take up storage space?

Wannabecamperman · May 9, 2023

These are the videos I watched when researching before I invested the pennies for my AC200MAX, which has the IRON (not ion) lithium - more cycles and safer too.

= Jackery powering the campervan

= these 3 are Bluettis, which I recommend.

happyjames013 · May 13, 2023

ourfirstcalif said:
Thanks all.

It's an older California so split charger should be OK, solar has a lithium profile, but the mains charger could be interesting as above. I'm just confused about this drop in title that they claim, suggesting they are good replacements for lead acid, if they are not..

Hi,

ourfirstcalif said:
Thanks all.

It's an older California so split charger should be OK, solar has a lithium profile, but the mains charger could be interesting as above. I'm just confused about this drop in title that they claim, suggesting they are good replacements for lead acid, if they are not..

Hi,
Full disclosure, I don’t have a California, I’m building a conversion on a T5.1 shuttle (non smart alternator).
In short, you can charge your lithium with a normal charger but you loose the benefits of the much faster charging capabilities of lithium. Link below for information.
From memory, AGM charging profiles are more suited to lithium, so if your van was supplied with AGM from new, you may benefit from that.
Lithium batteries do come with their own management system to protect and keep safe.
Your existing battery monitoring system uses volts to estimate charge level. As lithium volt levels remain relatively constant until almost full discharge, they have to use a different monitoring system, usually a shunt. However, I’m going to see if I can use the Fogstar built in battery condition info to see if this gives me enough proxy information to accurately estimate the amount of charge in the battery. I suspect I’ll be adding a shunt later

I thought the Fogstar was better enough to wait for on back order. Renology look good value as do ecoworthy.
I’ll be fitting a Victron 30amp dc to dc charger. Renology do some well reviewed chargers, but I went for Victron, more money but better kit.
One thing that must not be ignored is the size of your leisure battery supply cable. Larger charging capabilities from dc to dc chargers require larger cable and fuses to handle the increased load. This is both function and safety critical. So you will need to check the size of your charge cable and fuses if you fit a dc to dc charger.
I’d also look into the same issue with your mains charger.

If you are unsure then you should seek expert advice.

Can I charge a lithium battery with a normal charger? - Power Sonic

With lithium becoming a popular option as an SLA replacement, you might be wondering, "Can I use a normal charger on a lithium battery?"

www.power-sonic.com

Yosoyjollyvan · May 13, 2023

The thing is for having a lithium battery you will need a booster to charge it !

Bluetti stuff it just wouldn’t work for me…first it’s just space that you loss Inside the van and second heater, lights and the fridge will still be running from your van battery…

Wannabecamperman · May 13, 2023

Yosoyjollyvan said:
The thing is for having a lithium battery you will need a booster to charge it !

Bluetti stuff it just wouldn’t work for me…first it’s just space that you loss Inside the van and second heater, lights and the fridge will still be running from your van battery…

But you can plug the Bluetti in to the hook up socket - it's like having perma EHU, was my point and justification for why I went this route.

Yosoyjollyvan · May 13, 2023

Wannabecamperman said:
But you can plug the Bluetti in to the hook up socket - it's like having perma EHU, was my point and justification for why I went this route.

You’re right about that haven’t thought about it…but you need to be in a campsite or something like that ! But yes..you’re right

Greg&Mel Australian Cali · May 13, 2023

Check this battery out. I am told it can replace the agm though with a new charging system and integrates with the VW system.

12V 160Ah LiFePO4 Smart Lithium Under-seat Power Station for VW Campervans

12V 160Ah LiFePO4 Smart Lithium Under-seat Power Station for VW Campervans T6.1 / T6 / T5 Suitable for California (Right Side) Multivan (Left or Right) Transporter (Left or Right) Product Specifications Hidden under the passenger seat! This 160Ah 12V slimline battery has been made with the...

kombilife.com.au

Calimili · May 13, 2023

Wannabecamperman said:
But you can plug the Bluetti in to the hook up socket - it's like having perma EHU, was my point and justification for why I went this route.

except it is not earthed. If one of the 240V appliances you use and/or the Cali battery charger have a fault you may have an unsafe situation.

Wannabecamperman · May 13, 2023

Calimili said:
except it is not earthed. If one of the 240V appliances you use and/or the Cali battery charger have a fault you may have an unsafe situation.

Never heard of this being an issue, but if so, or extra cautious, just use a grounding plug off Amazon, the same as when using the Bluetti to charge EVs.

Ianvonlux2023 · May 13, 2023

ourfirstcalif said:
Apologies for the second post. The reason I'd want them in the van is to use things like the diesel heater without worry, the fridge etc. I guess I won't get that if I use a Jackery or equivalent?

Thanks

Fwiw I had the heating on for 3 days and nights almost 24hrs while also running the fridge and lights last winter in Scotland. The leisure battery said 6 hours of charge left as I left the car park. I’m just wondering whether the jackery thing is needed, wouldn’t it be more efficient to just install solar on the roof? (Sorry if I’ve misunderstood)

PaulBastowski · May 15, 2023

I found this LiFePO4 battery that is a drop in replacement for the AGM battery in a T5 or T6. I don’t have it, so can’t comment on it. Here is the link:

Lithium LiFePO4 VW T6 Untersitz-Batterie | CS-Batteries

Lithium LiFePO4 Caravan / Wohnmobil VW T6 Untersitz-Batterie 12V / 100Ah mit 500A Bluetooth-Mess-Shunt â große Auswahl â bester Preis â¤ jetzt bestelle

cs-batteries.de

Yosoyjollyvan · May 15, 2023

Problem with the lithium is that you will need a booster to charge it.
The alternator does not deliver the power consistently enough for a lithium battery.

You just need a booster and the battery. That’s all (exactly the same as every van in the world)…the Vw sistem will still show you the battery level (in volts) no problem. The only thing with that is volts are not really a good way to measure you’re lithium battery so you will need a Barrett with Bluetooth or shunt to know the real status of the battery

ourfirstcalif · May 31, 2023

Hello

Just an update, will be fitting two 100ah LiFePO4 tomorrow, along with a Victron Orion Tr DC DC charger. Already have a Victron MPPT for the solar so can change that to LiFePO4 profile.

Lets see how this works out!

Thanks.

ourfirstcalif · May 31, 2023

ourfirstcalif said:
Hello

Just an update, will be fitting two 100ah LiFePO4 tomorrow, along with a Victron Orion Tr DC DC charger. Already have a Victron MPPT for the solar so can change that to LiFePO4 profile.

Lets see how this works out!

Thanks.

Forgot to mention also fitting a Victron Smart Sence voltage/temperature sensor too.

Yosoyjollyvan · May 31, 2023

ourfirstcalif said:
Hello

Just an update, will be fitting two 100ah LiFePO4 tomorrow, along with a Victron Orion Tr DC DC charger. Already have a Victron MPPT for the solar so can change that to LiFePO4 profile.

Lets see how this works out!

Thanks.

I did this yesterday!!

ourfirstcalif · May 31, 2023

Yosoyjollyvan said:
I did this yesterday!!

how did it go?

ourfirstcalif · Jun 1, 2023

Done and dusted. Much easier than I thought. Thanks everyone.

paul_f · Jun 1, 2023

Which batteries did you buy?

kave · Jul 11, 2023

Ch1pbutty said:
We have 3 solar panels on the roof + one leisure battery. Never had an issue with using the heater or fridge (fridge runs 24/7 whilst parked on the drive, doubles as a beer fridge at home).

Do you really need all the additonal kit that will take up storage space?

I have a Beach so just one battery. We just replaced our 7 year old AGM battery with a new Varta 80Ah. We have been running the fridge all year even when not using the van. We have two 120w solar panels on the roof.

We have a compressor fridge, use the heater for days in winter, charge our four mobiles, two ipads, DJI drone, eMTB, electric drones, etc etc, and have rarely any problems. We have problems when camping in Italy in the summer when there are trees blocking the sun, then we need hookup. Lifepo4 batterys for 1000€ would not have saved us for more than a few days extra.
Of course a Lifepo4 battery would be fun and all but I fail to see the reason for it. I would rather get a foldable panel extra to place in the sun if we have parked in a shaded spot, alternatively newer panels like these if they are better: