Market research - Conversion companies

[California4x4]

@Martin has kindly agreed to me doing some market research.

I am passionate about campervans having built my own when I lived in the USA (as they didn't have anything like I was looking for) and I've owned a number of campervans and adventure vehicles in different countries that I have lived and worked in. I currently have a T6 California Ocean

I’m starting an online venture designed to advise people interested in buying or converting a campervan called comparethecampervan.com. It is based on a database of over 800 UK campervan conversion companies and enables a user to enter their postcode and find all of the companies around them. They will then find links to the companies website, email address and social media channels.

There will be much more to come so I’m doing some marketing research as this is the most active forum I’ve ever been a part of.
I’m interested in canvassing people’s experiences of trying to find a conversion company before they then found one (the minority) or they decided on a California.
This is aimed at anyone who has gone out to find a campervan conversion company

What process did you go through to try to find a company and what did you find to be most effective?

• What were the main factors that affected your decision? (eg distance, accreditation, customisable etc)
• What would you do differently if you started again?
• What are the most useful features the website could offer to assist with finding a good company?

I have no connection to any business in the campervan industry.

Thank you - your time and experience is very much appreciated.

David

 

[soulstyledevon]

You might struggle finding peeps on here who have a converted van.
I’ve had a couple in the past, but like you, I did most the work myself. For the parts I needed assistance, I researched the companies through various forums.

Might be worth asking the above question on the VWT5 & T6 forum.

VW T6 Transporter Forum

VW T6 Forum - Home to the largest Volkswagen Transporter T6 community. Advice, events, campervan chat, T6 mods, stories and news

www.t6forum.com

 

[California4x4]

You might struggle finding peeps on here who have a converted van.
I’ve had a couple in the past, but like you, I did most the work myself. For the parts I needed assistance, I researched the companies through various forums.

Might be worth asking the above question on the VWT5 & T6 forum.

VW T6 Transporter Forum

VW T6 Forum - Home to the largest Volkswagen Transporter T6 community. Advice, events, campervan chat, T6 mods, stories and news

www.t6forum.com

Thank you. I’ve just touched base with @Loz on the T6 forum. I’ll check out the T5 forum as well.

Thank you for your feedback on your method and experience also.

 

[66tim99]

Great idea for a website! We await our new California Ocean, ordered 10 months ago. We initially thought we’d buy a conversion so we could have a long wheelbase, spec it as we wanted, and save some money. I looked forward to touring some workshops and ‘getting a good vibe’ before ordering. Instead, the experience left me cold. Yes, Covid had hit, so we had to do it all by Zoom, which didn’t build confidence. We didn’t know exactly what we wanted, and websites seemed to focus on colour of cupboards etc. We felt we were swimming in the dark, hoping to be inspired.
I think your website could be useful if it had a configurator of sorts, leading you through basic options (new/used van? (and helped acquire it) LWB/SWB?, engine?, gearbox?...) and then lead you to some approximate prices. You could ask the VW approved converters (why wouldn’t you pick one of those?) to price the same basic/better/best spec, and ask them for a sound bite - what is their USP?
Your site might/ should also reward owners who post reviews of particular companies.

 

[California4x4]

Great idea for a website! We await our new California Ocean, ordered 10 months ago. We initially thought we’d buy a conversion so we could have a long wheelbase, spec it as we wanted, and save some money. I looked forward to touring some workshops and ‘getting a good vibe’ before ordering. Instead, the experience left me cold. Yes, Covid had hit, so we had to do it all by Zoom, which didn’t build confidence. We didn’t know exactly what we wanted, and websites seemed to focus on colour of cupboards etc. We felt we were swimming in the dark, hoping to be inspired.
I think your website could be useful if it had a configurator of sorts, leading you through basic options (new/used van? (and helped acquire it) LWB/SWB?, engine?, gearbox?...) and then lead you to some approximate prices. You could ask the VW approved converters (why wouldn’t you pick one of those?) to price the same basic/better/best spec, and ask them for a sound bite - what is their USP?
Your site might/ should also reward owners who post reviews of particular companies.

Thank you @66tim99! I remember your initial discussions and I’m glad to hear you are very close to owning your dream California.

These are great ideas.

Once I have worked out a way to verify company owners are genuinely connected to the company, they will be given a login so they can update their company page. This will give them the ability to select from a series of drop down boxes, the work they can or like to do. They will also be able to upload media and highlight where they stand out from the rest.

These attributes will match drop down filters on the user search page, so you could opt for a LWB Crafter, sourced by the company with an internal shower, lithium battery system and a 3-year warranty. This would significantly refine the list of companies to only those available to carry out your work. This becomes a win win, the searcher has fewer companies to consider and the companies receive calls that are better aligned with what they do.

You’re right, this all becomes most useful when there are verified reviews from buyers. This is the hard part. I will be introducing an element of identity verification and purchase verification (Think AirBnB level rather than your online bank) so unlike places like trust pilot, where company’s exist with the sole purpose of producing positive and negative reviews for the highest bidder, an individual or vying company won’t be able to do that. It will be a hurdle too big for many to cross though. This is going to be a long game.

Thank you again for taking the time to to respond.

 

[AlisonF]

I have several friends who have conversions. One wanting to travel on his own, another a couple with young kids plus dogs, and lastly an most retired couple with a dog. Let me know if I can ask them to help.

 

[California4x4]

I have several friends who have conversions. One wanting to travel on his own, another a couple with young kids plus dogs, and lastly an most retired couple with a dog. Let me know if I can ask them to help.

Thank you very much @AlisonF, I would really appreciate their perspective. If any of them are interested in sharing their experience with me, please can you pass them my contact details.

 

[WelshGas]

Thank you very much @AlisonF, I would really appreciate their perspective. If any of them are interested in sharing their experience with me, please can you pass them my contact details.
View attachment 82519

One of the points of information on your comparison site should be the DVLA Registration of a companies Conversion. Under the new DVLA definition of a Campervan many conversions can no longer have their Body Type changed to Campervan/Motor Caravan only Van with Windows which means they are considered as a Commercial vehicle with different speed limits compared to a VW California . This might be important to some owners.

 

[California4x4]

One of the points of information on your comparison site should be the DVLA Registration of a companies Conversion. Under the new DVLA definition of a Campervan many conversions can no longer have their Body Type changed to Campervan/Motor Caravan only Van with Windows which means they are considered as a Commercial vehicle with different speed limits compared to a VW California . This might be important to some owners.

That’s a good point @WelshGas. I will make that one of the early blog posts to inform of the current issue. I’ll see if I can add a drop down filter with
a. Registered with DVLA as a campervan
b. Registered with DVLA as a van with windows

It will not be straight forward as some companies that have the capacity to fit a high top to a Transporter would be able to select ‘a.’

Definitely food for thought.

 

[kp64zl]

I looked into getting a conversion before I settled on a California. Went to Busfest a couple of times and made contact with various companies.

What put me off was
1) the number of companies that never called back & felt that I was doing the chasing even before I spent any money.
2) the general ‘drab’ designs & poor quality finish - even those companies that promised more personal specifications really just meant you could choose the colour of cupboard doors. The most innovative company at the time was called Uberbus & that soon stopped doing conversions…..
3) The VW approved converters cost same, if not more than VW. & I preferred the VW offering

It became very clear early on that location was a terrible way to choose a converter as the quality varies so much. So I’m not really sure of the utility of a map search function on your website.

 

[California4x4]

I looked into getting a conversion before I settled on a California. Went to Busfest a couple of times and made contact with various companies.

What put me off was
1) the number of companies that never called back & felt that I was doing the chasing even before I spent any money.
2) the general ‘drab’ designs & poor quality finish - even those companies that promised more personal specifications really just meant you could choose the colour of cupboard doors. The most innovative company at the time was called Uberbus & that soon stopped doing conversions…..
3) The VW approved converters cost same, if not more than VW. & I preferred the VW offering

It became very clear early on that location was a terrible way to choose a converter as the quality varies so much. So I’m not really sure of the utility of a map search function on your website.

Thank you for your insights @kp64zl. I agree, it’s a real shame that Clough from Uberbus stopped building campervans. He produced the Uberrock which was an off-road ready Beach equivalent and I would have chosen one of those over a 4Motion Ocean for its flexibility.

I also agree that location shouldn’t be at the top of the list when choosing a converter, but with a warranty of upto 5 years offers by some on their conversion, I would still want to factor location into my decision. Displaying the filtered options on a map may be helpful for some to do this.

 

[Trudi]

We spent 18 months looking into conversion companies before we opted for a Coast.
We narrowed it down to 3 companies for different reasons.
1) Bodens in Shropshire.
+ Localish to us incase anything went wrong. Fantastic quality and great reviews.
- Most of their conversations were very much the same. No individuality which is 1 of the reasons to get a conversion.


2) Dirty Weekender in Worcester.
+ Seen them at the NEC. Brilliant quirky conversations that are totally done with you in mind. They will do what you want not what comes as standard.
- The price of conversion was similar to a new California. If something goes wrong you have to travel back to them.

3) Knights conversions Peterborough way.

+ Amazing quality with many points similar to the California with seats on tracks, electric roof etc. Completely individuality design.
- ££££ worth every penny for what you get but over our budget.

The things that convinced us to go for the California over the conversion root were the fact that if something went wrong there are vw van centres all over the country with the workmanship guaranteed by vw not an individual company.
No furry walls. Hate the furry lining in conversations.

 

[California4x4]

We spent 18 months looking into conversion companies before we opted for a Coast.
We narrowed it down to 3 companies for different reasons.
1) Bodens in Shropshire.
+ Localish to us incase anything went wrong. Fantastic quality and great reviews.
- Most of their conversations were very much the same. No individuality which is 1 of the reasons to get a conversion.


2) Dirty Weekender in Worcester.
+ Seen them at the NEC. Brilliant quirky conversations that are totally done with you in mind. They will do what you want not what comes as standard.
- The price of conversion was similar to a new California. If something goes wrong you have to travel back to them.

3) Knights conversions Peterborough way.

+ Amazing quality with many points similar to the California with seats on tracks, electric roof etc. Completely individuality design.
- ££££ worth every penny for what you get but over our budget.

The things that convinced us to go for the California over the conversion root were the fact that if something went wrong there are vw van centres all over the country with the workmanship guaranteed by vw not an individual company.
No furry walls. Hate the furry lining in conversations.

Thank you @Trudi for your helpful and balanced response. Those three conversion companies are significant players in the game. Knights continue to make high-end campervans and are building optional Lithium-ion electrical systems with large solar arrays and induction hobs now.

 

[Trudi]

Thank you @Trudi for your helpful and balanced response. Those three conversion companies are significant players in the game. Knights continue to make high-end campervans and are building optional Lithium-ion electrical systems with large solar arrays and induction hobs now.

I love the knights conversions.
And to be honest, if our kitchen wears out in the future we will go to either knights or Dirty Weekender for an update. Hopefully the kitchen will last a good few years but it was a very close race between what to buy.

 

[California4x4]

Although there are quite a few threads out there already, I don’t mind if this thread gets quite heavy into the California vs Conversion debate as most people on here have decided on a California after doing their research. I’ve posted some questions on the T6 forum, where I hope there will be some people interested in helping others to make good decisions in the future but the responses on here are more fruitful. Thank you to all for helping out. Keep them coming please. Any thoughts @Wildcamper. Where do you feel Westfalia fit into the campervan conversion industry @4x4 joker? I haven’t got them on my database of listed companies neither do I have VW.

 

[Mehdime]

We looked at conversions briefly at the start but quickly gave up.

From what we've seen, the US is a great place to get a converted van - we've seen loads of amazing conversions there.

But for some reason, conversions in the UK and Ireland are much more underwhelming to say the least. It seems that all conversions here have the same bland, clunky, cookie-cutter interior reminiscent of the 80's. And can someone explain what on earth is the story with having carpets on the walls?

Now, it's entirely possible that the large number companies doing conversions mean that you end up only seeing the mediocre average and that there are in fact amazing conversion companies n the UK that are lost in the weeds. If you site could help surface those rare jewels, it would certainly be super useful.

 

[California4x4]

We looked at conversions briefly at the start but quickly gave up.

From what we've seen, the US is a great place to get a converted van - we've seen loads of amazing conversions there.

But for some reason, conversions in the UK and Ireland are much more underwhelming to say the least. It seems that all conversions here have the same bland, clunky, cookie-cutter interior reminiscent of the 80's. And can someone explain what on earth is the story with having carpets on the walls?

Now, it's entirely possible that the large number companies doing conversions mean that you end up only seeing the mediocre average and that there are in fact amazing conversion companies n the UK that are lost in the weeds. If you site could help surface those rare jewels, it would certainly be super useful.

Oh there’s some good work out there! I’ve been using and will continue to use my Instagram page to highlight innovation, safe practices and high-quality work.https://www.instagram.com/comparethecampervan/
In time, the website will take on this role.

 

[66tim99]

View attachment 82549View attachment 82550View attachment 82551View attachment 82552View attachment 82553View attachment 82554View attachment 82555View attachment 82556View attachment 82557View attachment 82558Oh there’s some good work out there! I’ve been using and will continue to use my Instagram page to highlight innovation, safe practices and high-quality work.https://www.instagram.com/comparethecampervan/
In time, the website will take on this role.

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[California4x4]

Now subscribed

Thank you Tim @66tim99! I really appreciate the support.

 

[Wildcamper]

Although there are quite a few threads out there already, I don’t mind if this thread gets quite heavy into the California vs Conversion debate as most people on here have decided on a California after doing their research. I’ve posted some questions on the T6 forum, where I hope there will be some people interested in helping others to make good decisions in the future but the responses on here are more fruitful. Thank you to all for helping out. Keep them coming please. Any thoughts @Wildcamper. Where do you feel Westfalia fit into the campervan conversion industry @4x4 joker? I haven’t got them on my database of listed companies neither do I have VW.

I can only repeat what I have said before. If the California ticks your boxes then go for it, a good product. After trying two the California did not tick our boxes. We spent a good 12 months looking at converters. Gosh did we see some rubbish! But there are excellent converters out there. Will one save money by going to a quality converter, maybe a little but don't count on it. My warning to those wishing to obtain a conversion, do you homework, be careful of private sales where the provenance is in doubt, go for a VW approved converter, make sure any VW warranty is in place and valid after conversion, get at least a 3 year warranty from the converter, make sure they have a good track record. If you do your homework you should get a design that works for you (don't accept the concept "we only do one design take it or leave it"). Also take a long hard look at after sales service. With a good conversion don't worry about residuals, they will be on par with a California. With a poor conversion you will lose your money. We went with Autohaus and are delighted with the result and their continuing support 3.5 years on. Off to explore the Medway towns and the north Kent coast next week, really looking forward to it - trip number 8 this year, two more to go until we plan our winter schedule.

 

[California4x4]

I can only repeat what I have said before. If the California ticks your boxes then go for it, a good product. After trying two the California did not tick our boxes. We spent a good 12 months looking at converters. Gosh did we see some rubbish! But there are excellent converters out there. Will one save money by going to a quality converter, maybe a little but don't count on it. My warning to those wishing to obtain a conversion, do you homework, be careful of private sales where the provenance is in doubt, go for a VW approved converter, make sure any VW warranty is in place and valid after conversion, get at least a 3 year warranty from the converter, make sure they have a good track record. If you do your homework you should get a design that works for you (don't accept the concept "we only do one design take it or leave it"). Also take a long hard look at after sales service. With a good conversion don't worry about residuals, they will be on par with a California. With a poor conversion you will lose your money. We went with Autohaus and are delighted with the result and their continuing support 3.5 years on. Off to explore the Medway towns and the north Kent coast next week, really looking forward to it - trip number 8 this year, two more to go until we plan our winter schedule.

This is valuable advice.

Can I also ask please, are there any additional features you can think of, the website could provide, that would make the ‘homework’ easier.

Enjoy your trip to Kent!

 

[The Merle]

This is valuable advice.

Can I also ask please, are there any additional features you can think of, the website could provide, that would make the ‘homework’ easier.

Enjoy your trip to Kent!

I think my club joker and wildcamper autohaus are aimed more at someone wanting a little more space than a cali, but don’t want to jump up to a GC or sprinter.
At only 5.3m long the van is still very easy to park, fits in normal spaces (obviously you have the extra height so no squeezing in a 2m carpark.
I’ve said else where that there’s always a space somewhere else just involves using your legs and walking future.
The joker has hot water and a proper shower/loo and the living area feels a lot bigger than any 6m van I’ve seen (apart from wingamm VW that’s only 5.3m too don’t think they make them anymore).
Downside with westfalia is the build times.
There is so few club jokers (both models) in the country I think there’s prob less than 10 new ones a year of each model coming over to uk.
So the chances of a second hand one are slim, tends to be only 1 or 2 available in a year.

Campersales has 3 on order of both models for next year though if anyone is interested.

Ive owned two cali in the past and would never compare joker hightop to one as they are completely different beast.
A cali is an all rounder, and when I want an all rounder van I’ll be going back to one.

 

[California4x4]

I think my club joker and wildcamper autohaus are aimed more at someone wanting a little more space than a cali, but don’t want to jump up to a GC or sprinter.
At only 5.3m long the van is still very easy to park, fits in normal spaces (obviously you have the extra height so no squeezing in a 2m carpark.
I’ve said else where that there’s always a space somewhere else just involves using your legs and walking future.
The joker has hot water and a proper shower/loo and the living area feels a lot bigger than any 6m van I’ve seen (apart from wingamm VW that’s only 5.3m too don’t think they make them anymore).
Downside with westfalia is the build times.
There is so few club jokers (both models) in the country I think there’s prob less than 10 new ones a year of each model coming over to uk.
So the chances of a second hand one are slim, tends to be only 1 or 2 available in a year.

Campersales has 3 on order of both models for next year though if anyone is interested.

Ive owned two cali in the past and would never compare joker hightop to one as they are completely different beast.
A cali is an all rounder, and when I want an all rounder van I’ll be going back to one.

Thank you. Are you still in Scotland?

Where have you ordered your Jokers from please? A third party dealer or directly through Westfalia? If someone was looking for a LWB Transporter sized campervan with a shower and loo, how would you recommend I include the Joker option on the website please? Currently companies are found on the map, either by searching by name or by location. In time, once the companies have updated their information, users will also be able to search for the features they want, like an interior shower. I might need a wild card (or Joker) area for campervans that are not tied to a geographic location.

 

[Wildcamper]

Thank you. Are you still in Scotland?

Where have you ordered your Jokers from please? A third party dealer or directly through Westfalia? If someone was looking for a LWB Transporter sized campervan with a shower and loo, how would you recommend I include the Joker option on the website please? Currently companies are found on the map, either by searching by name or by location. In time, once the companies have updated their information, users will also be able to search for the features they want, like an interior shower. I might need a wild card (or Joker) area for campervans that are not tied to a geographic location.

We have external hot shower plus hot water at the sink, plumbed in toilet and gas is supplied via an underslung lpg tank. We requested these from Autohaus and they supplied along with the colour coordination we wanted. If going conversion make sure you get what you want, or go somewhere else.

 

[Perfectos]

This is valuable advice.

Can I also ask please, are there any additional features you can think of, the website could provide, that would make the ‘homework’ easier.

Enjoy your trip to Kent!

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