Mid life crisis Cali Swamper!

[wildslammer22]

You have a very persuasive case and I can see myself following in your footsteps .

I too, like the idea of not having to use EHU on a campsite, particularly as some sites seem to pluck the additional cost of EHU out of the air.

What battery make have you gone for, by the way?

My 100/20 MPPT is also Victron connected to 3x100w panels fitted by Roger at SCS.

The only doubt I have is that, in my early days of ownership and in my research period, I think I read that the 6.1 control panel wouldn't recognise LifePO4’s and would therefore pose a problem. I'm not sure if I dreamt this, though . And I'm not sure if this has been overcome yet. Time for some updated research, perhaps.

I went for the Xplorer Polarmax 100ah batteries. They seem to have a good spec and my installer has used them and recommends them. There are a few options that use the same or very similar case size as the LA80’s. Some cheaper and some nearly twice as much. I was advised to avoid the cheap batteries as the BMS isn’t as good, aren’t self heating, have no Bluetooth connectivity and it’s unlikely that the cell quality can be verified as you get a much shorter warranty. The Xplorer has a 10 year warranty, uses grade A cells and the only thing I can see it doesn’t have that the most expensive options offer is auto balancing. That shouldn’t be an issue though if installed correctly.

I have a T6 so can’t speak to the compatibility of the control panel on the 6.1. I’ve assumed that I will lose the battery indicator on my panel but I figured with the Bluetooth connectivity and the Victron app I can live without it. I will update you after install though if it does still work.


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[wildslammer22]

Just so this is clear in my mind. You will recoup the expenditure for the Lithium batteries and the solar charging system by saving the cost of EHU at campsites over the next 400 nights camping but only where EHU is available and you don't use it, by which time the batteries will need replacing. You will never break even!

I never said I will recoup the cost! I’m doing it as I have to change the batteries anyway and the extra freedom it gives. Saving £10 a night in typical EHU charges is a bonus. BTW it’s 150 nights to break even vs putting new AGM’s in not 400 unless you are happy to share where you camp that EHU costs £3.75 a night ;-)


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[secret lemonade drinker]

Camping in a beach in holland, average EHU cost 65-75 cents per night!

Camping in this country, most campsites the EHU is included so I use it.

Why are your Varta LA80 batteries only lasting 4 years? They should be capable of lasting twice that time.
I have fitted far cheaper VRLA AGM Leisure batteries which have been deep discharge cycled (inverter powering microwave and coffee machine) for the past six years and are still in excellent condition.

https://www.alpha-batteries.co.uk/110-ah-platinum-leisure-battery-6110l?gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQjww5u2BhDeARIsALBuLnNBAVzjaBrA0nmV24meFivSxj_88IumBOt101tx8PTHb1vmroRRWIYaAgFKEALw_wcB

I think you should look at the charger and its charging profile as to why your batteries are not lasting as they should

 

[wildslammer22]

Camping in a beach in holland, average EHU cost 65-75 cents per night!

EHU is much cheaper on the continent, some sites in France don’t charge at all. In good old Blighty I’ve heard that some sites are charging over £15 a night!


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[nigpdreadingfc]

I will update you after install though if it does still work.


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thanks, much appreciated

 

[wildslammer22]

Camping in a beach in holland, average EHU cost 65-75 cents per night!

Camping in this country, most campsites the EHU is included so I use it.

Why are your Varta LA80 batteries only lasting 4 years? They should be capable of lasting twice that time.
I have fitted far cheaper VRLA AGM Leisure batteries which have been deep discharge cycled (inverter powering microwave and coffee machine) for the past six years and are still in excellent condition.

https://www.alpha-batteries.co.uk/110-ah-platinum-leisure-battery-6110l?gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQjww5u2BhDeARIsALBuLnNBAVzjaBrA0nmV24meFivSxj_88IumBOt101tx8PTHb1vmroRRWIYaAgFKEALw_wcB

I think you should look at the charger and its charging profile as to why your batteries are not lasting as they should

There is one poster on here that is still on the original batteries after 16 years! I’m sure that’s a bit of an outlier but as I understand it 6-8 years is fairly typical lifespan for AGM’s obviously depending on usage etc. Mine are 6 years old and were fine until a few months ago. I assume the secret to longevity is to not discharge them beyond 50% but that restricts you to around 80ah on a typical Ocean twin battery set up. If you’re off grid a lot (which I am) that’s not a lot. The fridge alone will draw that in 3-4 days, less if it’s really hot. Start charging phones, and running lights, maybe a small fan and you’re probably down to 2 days without Solar. In the winter even with solar (no sun) start running the diesel heater battery anxiety starts to kick in pretty soon!


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[secret lemonade drinker]

As an electrician with many years experience of Non interruptible Power Supplies (UPS) and Battery Back Up Systems, Batteries when properly cared for last a lot longer than you think. Keeping them warm and dry is important, but mostly it is down to how they are charged. despite other opinions I have read, deep cycle batteries (Leisure) should be charged differently to Cold Crank Batteries (Starter) they have a different Full voltage value and the charging curve is a different shape.
The worst part of the California Setup is the Split Charge Relay, a DC to DC converter is best. Mixing battery types is also not a good idea. Deep Cycle batteries need to be cycled, float charging them will kill them quicker so not discharging them beyond 50% is why their capacity is diminishing over time. A battery is truly broken when the electrolyte (acid) boils off and the plates buckle, this is what causes them to deform. Float charging causes this. You can purchase some chargers that have a recovery program where the charging voltage is pulsed which can cause the chemical build up on the plates to de re-dissolved into the electrolyte extending the life of the battery. This is best done on a bench in a garage off of the vehicle, I have done this a few times to recover Cranking Batteries that have been presumed dead.

This cheap charger from Amazon has this function:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B09FKXHW2R/?tag=eliteelect-21

 

[wildslammer22]

As an electrician with many years experience of Non interruptible Power Supplies (UPS) and Battery Back Up Systems, Batteries when properly cared for last a lot longer than you think. Keeping them warm and dry is important, but mostly it is down to how they are charged. despite other opinions I have read, deep cycle batteries (Leisure) should be charged differently to Cold Crank Batteries (Starter) they have a different Full voltage value and the charging curve is a different shape.
The worst part of the California Setup is the Split Charge Relay, a DC to DC converter is best. Mixing battery types is also not a good idea. Deep Cycle batteries need to be cycled, float charging them will kill them quicker so not discharging them beyond 50% is why their capacity is diminishing over time. A battery is truly broken when the electrolyte (acid) boils off and the plates buckle, this is what causes them to deform. Float charging causes this. You can purchase some chargers that have a recovery program where the charging voltage is pulsed which can cause the chemical build up on the plates to de re-dissolved into the electrolyte extending the life of the battery. This is best done on a bench in a garage off of the vehicle, I have done this a few times to recover Cranking Batteries that have been presumed dead.

This cheap charger from Amazon has this function:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B09FKXHW2R/?tag=eliteelect-21

That’s interesting. The perceived wisdom for us Cali owners is to not let the AGM’s go below 50% if possible. When I installed a 100w solar panel it was very common for the batteries to be in float status through the Summer. If I’ve understood you correctly you’re saying this isn’t good for battery health?

I will be replacing the split relay to a DC-DC charger for the LifeP04 leisure batteries.


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[secret lemonade drinker]

When I had a beach (sold last month) we regularly (once or twice a year) discharged the Leisure battery to flat such that the LED lights wouldn't work (running Waeco cool box in spanish temperatures). The battery was still OK 7 years after install. I never needed to remove it or pulse recover it. If your battery system has a constant drain then the float charge your solar panels provides should not boil your batteries dry, I presume your solar charge controller has dip switch settings for type of battery, this will set the "curve" and charge voltage level.

 

[Corradobrit]

EHU is much cheaper on the continent, some sites in France don’t charge at all. In good old Blighty I’ve heard that some sites are charging over £15 a night!


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True. I have even been on some French municipal Aires and had free water and electricity provided on a couple of parking spaces.

 

[secret lemonade drinker]

Yes, the best Aire I have used was Campeole Park in Ondres, 14 euros per night inc drinking water, grey water, chemical toilet disposal, EHU, toilets and WIFI and right on the beach with a maximum stay of 48 hours

 

[Corradobrit]

Yes, the best Aire I have used was Campeole Park in Ondres, 14 euros per night inc drinking water, grey water, chemical toilet disposal, EHU, toilets and WIFI and right on the beach with a maximum stay of 48 hours

Yeah, looks lush

 

[Ch1pbutty]

That’s interesting. The perceived wisdom for us Cali owners is to not let the AGM’s go below 50% if possible. When I installed a 100w solar panel it was very common for the batteries to be in float status through the Summer. If I’ve understood you correctly you’re saying this isn’t good for battery health?

I will be replacing the split relay to a DC-DC charger for the LifeP04 leisure batteries.


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Float is fine. Solar has done its job and batteries are fully charged, so switches to trickle charge / float.

 

[secret lemonade drinker]

Yeah, looks lush

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You have to look beyond the obvious to the beach:

 

[wildslammer22]

Yeah, looks lush

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Take me to where the Big Whites can’t go!

 

[secret lemonade drinker]

we can go anywhere you can!

 

[Corradobrit]

we can go anywhere you can!

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Seriously? Don't be these guys

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[secret lemonade drinker]

When the MoD trained me to do off road driving we were told to walk it first, and 4WD was only for when you had effed it up! Apart from dropping a MK in a tank trap so it sat on its chassis, then low range and diff locks were deployed. A Hymer MLT in the hands of Novices is asking for trouble! Proper off roading requires a G wagon conversion or a unimog/pinzgauer, anything else is just for show! You don't have the necessary approach and departure angles, and I can just see you removing your bungs so you can exceed your fording limits!

 

[Webbah_in_Switzerland]

we can go anywhere you can!

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LOL, ok join me!

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[Corradobrit]

I feel slightly inadequate

 

[secret lemonade drinker]

certainly please send grid references, I've taken a 2wd (RWD) Transit up worse in Cairngorms and Snowdonia, that looks like a road to me!

 

[Corradobrit]

certainly please send grid references, I've taken a 2wd (RWD) Transit up worse in Cairngorms and Snowdonia, that looks like a road to me!

Whats in that lemonade? I want some

 

[Kayleigh]

we can go anywhere you can!

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That’s quite a step up from the Beach!

 

[secret lemonade drinker]

That’s quite a step up from the Beach!

Not really...same monetary value as a high spec ocean, but no leaky bellows, a toilet, a shower, 2 single beds, a king size double, an oven and two burners (one for slow cooking beans), Central Heating, Hot water, 150watt Solar Panel, motorcycle garage, 4 travelling seats and so much space (even for my final front ear)!

 

[Corradobrit]

Not really...same monetary value as a high spec ocean, but no leaky bellows, a toilet, a shower, 2 single beds, a king size double, an oven and two burners (one for slow cooking beans), Central Heating, Hot water, 150watt Solar Panel, motorcycle garage, 4 travelling seats and so much space (even for my final front ear)!

Whats the mpg?