Notifying insurance company of modifications

[MountainRunner]

I'm just in the process of renewing my California insurance. I'm currently with LV and informed them that I have a towbar, bike rack and solar panel fitted. The towbar and bike rack were no issue, however they wanted an extra £110 (!) for the solar panel modification. Anyone else come up against the same issue? I'd love to know what risk they have identified to justify a £110 premium, however strangely enough they weren't able to answer this question when I asked it.
Did I make a mistake in mentioning it in the first place? Would be grateful to know how other people deal with this issue, as I'm now (for obvious reasons) shopping around...(FYI, last year's premium with LV was £284, this year they are quoting £463, plus an extra £110 because of the solar 'modification'. Nothing else has changed.

 

[66tim99]

My LV has gone up a similar %age this year.
I don't have solar though.

 

[WelshGas]

I'm just in the process of renewing my California insurance. I'm currently with LV and informed them that I have a towbar, bike rack and solar panel fitted. The towbar and bike rack were no issue, however they wanted an extra £110 (!) for the solar panel modification. Anyone else come up against the same issue? I'd love to know what risk they have identified to justify a £110 premium, however strangely enough they weren't able to answer this question when I asked it.
Did I make a mistake in mentioning it in the first place? Would be grateful to know how other people deal with this issue, as I'm now (for obvious reasons) shopping around...(FYI, last year's premium with LV was £284, this year they are quoting £463, plus an extra £110 because of the solar 'modification'. Nothing else has changed.

Personally, I don’t consider a Solar panel, not permanently fixed, ie glued to the roof, a modification, nor a removable bike rack.

 

[MountainRunner]

My LV has gone up a similar %age this year.
I don't have solar though.

Are you sticking with LV @66tim99 , or going with another insurer?

 

[66tim99]

Are you sticking with LV @66tim99 , or going with another insurer?

I’ve stuck with them. All the cover I need for the best price.

 

[Barry Chuckle]

Personally, I don’t consider a Solar panel, not permanently fixed, ie glued to the roof, a modification, nor a removable bike rack.

My insurance Comfort, have warned me that if I attach any wrap to my van they will invalidate the insurance. You could also argue that's not permanently fixed too!

 

[Lambeth Cali]

I wouldn’t call a bike rack a modification either.

 

[Grigio Van Grigio]

Personally, I don’t consider a Solar panel, not permanently fixed, ie glued to the roof, a modification, nor a removable bike rack.

It’s not really anything to do with permanence, it’s purely to do with whether any modification increases the risk of loss. I can see an argument that modifications to the electrical system could increase the risk of fire potentially, or that a fixed/glued solar panel could increase the risk of vehicle damage in the event of an attempt to steal the panel. However, £110 seems excessive against the perceived potential increase in risk.

The OP was right to advise the insurers as it is a material fact (you wouldn’t want any loss to be turned down due to non disclosure) but I think the insurance company have charged far too much for the (in my opinion) negligible increase in risk.

Every insurer has a different risk appetite and the response to modifications will differ. I would go elsewhere.

 

[Grigio Van Grigio]

I wouldn’t call a bike rack a modification either.

Most insurers would say both tow bars and bike racks are notifiable modifications. If in doubt, always notify your insurer of any modifications to make sure there is no issue when it comes to a claim.

 

[WelshGas]

My insurance Comfort, have warned me that if I attach any wrap to my van they will invalidate the insurance. You could also argue that's not permanently fixed too!

But you can't take it off and put it back on easily on your drive as you can a bike rack or removable solar panel. Also, do you have to inform DVLA?

 

[RockinNRollin]

It’s not really anything to do with permanence, it’s purely to do with whether any modification increases the risk of loss. I can see an argument that modifications to the electrical system could increase the risk of fire potentially, or that a fixed/glued solar panel could increase the risk of vehicle damage in the event of an attempt to steal the panel. However, £110 seems excessive against the perceived potential increase in risk.

The OP was right to advise the insurers as it is a material fact (you wouldn’t want any loss to be turned down due to non disclosure) but I think the insurance company have charged far too much for the (in my opinion) negligible increase in risk.

Every insurer has a different risk appetite and the response to modifications will differ. I would go elsewhere.

Nail on the head. It's all about insurable risk and a bike rack has value; we have heard on this forum about them being stolen, but even if you don't claim for the rack itself, it's likely the vehicle would be damaged if it was removed forcibly - risk goes up.

Insurance is purely driven by statistics driven algorithms: they will plug in all the variables and if either through someone setting a particular variable as being attributed to higher risk, or if there's a past history of those variables resulting in increased frequency and/or value of claims, they'll bump the insurance premium accordingly. With the solar panels, it could be something as simple as statistically those with solar panels are more likely to wild camp, those who wild camp are more likely to leave their vehicles unattended in remote locations and therefore suffer more frequent break-ins to their vehicles.

 

[Barry Chuckle]

But you can't take it off and put it back on easily on your drive as you can a bike rack or removable solar panel. Also, do you have to inform DVLA?

You make very salient points, I'm guessing you'd probably have to let the DVLA know about a wrap as the colour is on the V5 document, but I'm not sure.

I suppose the upshot is all insurers ask to be informed of any modifications, and as the OP found out the company want to add a premium for the solar panels. However unfair that may seem, it's better that than them refusing a claim or voiding the policy due to non-disclosure.

 

[Grigio Van Grigio]

But you can't take it off and put it back on easily on your drive as you can a bike rack or removable solar panel. Also, do you have to inform DVLA?

The question of impermanence or removability is a red herring. It’s almost as easy to replace alloy wheels as it is a bike rack but surely you wouldn’t say you don’t need to tell insurers you’ve changed your wheels?

 

[Grigio Van Grigio]

Nail on the head. It's all about insurable risk and a bike rack has value; we have heard on this forum about them being stolen, but even if you don't claim for the rack itself, it's likely the vehicle would be damaged if it was removed forcibly - risk goes up.

Insurance is purely driven by statistics driven algorithms: they will plug in all the variables and if either through someone setting a particular variable as being attributed to higher risk, or if there's a past history of those variables resulting in increased frequency and/or value of claims, they'll bump the insurance premium accordingly. With the solar panels, it could be something as simple as statistically those with solar panels are more likely to wild camp, those who wild camp are more likely to leave their vehicles unattended in remote locations and therefore suffer more frequent break-ins to their vehicles.

Good points. Some modifications do point to a different owner risk profile which could affect the overall premium as opposed to simply the additional risks posed by the modification itself. Things like “go faster” stripes and body kits spring to mind.

 

[WelshGas]

The question of impermanence or removability is a red herring. It’s almost as easy to replace alloy wheels as it is a bike rack but surely you wouldn’t say you don’t need to tell insurers you’ve changed your wheels?

If they are non-standard VW Transporter wheels then Yes. If VW sell them for the Transporter No. No different to changing tyre makes as long as they are the correct specification as recommended by VW in the Certificate of Conformity.

 

[Lambeth Cali]

I had a crash driving home from work on Boxing Day a few years ago. Zurich pointed out I didn’t have commuting on my cover. I pointed out I was only commuting to Oxford Circus because there were no trains on Boxing Day. They agreed to retroactively add commuting for £25. I agreed.

It’s not the Wild West. If somebody tried to dispute a crash claim because I had a bike rack, I would similarly complain.

But then I don’t tell Eurotunnel or Brittany ferries about it either as they always position the car behind 6 inches off the back bumper anyway. I do use the Spanish bike sign though because I don’t want a roadside argument with a Spanish police officer!

 

[Grigio Van Grigio]

If they are non-standard VW Transporter wheels then Yes. If VW sell them for the Transporter No. No different to changing tyre makes as long as they are the correct specification as recommended by VW in the Certificate of Conformity.

You still need to be a bit careful there. There’s plenty of things VW sell as modifications that aren’t available as factory fitted extras. As always, if in doubt, advise your insurers.

 

[Grigio Van Grigio]

I had a crash driving home from work on Boxing Day a few years ago. Zurich pointed out I didn’t have commuting on my cover. I pointed out I was only commuting to Oxford Circus because there were no trains on Boxing Day. They agreed to retroactively add commuting for £25. I agreed.

It’s not the Wild West. If somebody tried to dispute a crash claim because I had a bike rack, I would similarly complain.

But then I don’t tell Eurotunnel or Brittany ferries about it either as they always position the car behind 6 inches off the back bumper anyway. I do use the Spanish bike sign though because I don’t want a roadside argument with a Spanish police officer!

It’s not the Wild West but you were lucky there. The insurer will always look fairly at inadvertent non disclosure. They will go back to the inception or renewal and say, what would we have done if we had know the facts at that time. In your case, they decided it wouldn’t have affected their decision to provide insurance but they would have charged you extra.

There will be plenty of insurers who wouldn’t accept modified vans in the first place so you could find a claim being turned down and your policy cancelled if the modification hadn’t been declared and it was material to the loss.

 

[Barry Chuckle]

If they are non-standard VW Transporter wheels then Yes. If VW sell them for the Transporter No. No different to changing tyre makes as long as they are the correct specification as recommended by VW in the Certificate of Conformity.

Even if they are VW manufacturer options I'd still say you need to let the insurer know. For example you could retro fit 18 inch VW Palmerston wheels to your Cali which are available from new, but I suspect the insurance company would class that as higher risk and would want an additional premium.

 

[B J G]

The question of impermanence or removability is a red herring. It’s almost as easy to replace alloy wheels as it is a bike rack but surely you wouldn’t say you don’t need to tell insurers you’ve changed your wheels?

All modifications from delivered spec are notifiable or the vehicle won't be as described at the time of the Policy being taken out which could be deemed as fraudulent obtaining Insurance cover. Note use of could but it may mean cover invalidated.

Example of this is the Police now impounding 'Boy racer' cars as uninsured due to fitting big wheels and body kits without notifying the Insurers making the vehicle fall into the uninsured category.

 

[B J G]

I'm just in the process of renewing my California insurance. I'm currently with LV and informed them that I have a towbar, bike rack and solar panel fitted. The towbar and bike rack were no issue, however they wanted an extra £110 (!) for the solar panel modification. Anyone else come up against the same issue? I'd love to know what risk they have identified to justify a £110 premium, however strangely enough they weren't able to answer this question when I asked it.
Did I make a mistake in mentioning it in the first place? Would be grateful to know how other people deal with this issue, as I'm now (for obvious reasons) shopping around...(FYI, last year's premium with LV was £284, this year they are quoting £463, plus an extra £110 because of the solar 'modification'. Nothing else has changed.

In a conversation with my Insurers I had an increased premium on the third Modification as they said that the first two were 'free'.

 

[andyinluton]

The one to be aware of is dash cams. Sorting out the kids car insurance I found that a hardwired dash cam is classed as a modification & raised the premiums, but one plugged into a lighter socket did not need to be declared as it was no different to say plugging your phone or a tom tom in to charge.

If you take that a step further, a solar panel hardwired would be declarable. A solar panel mounted on a roof rack connected via crocodile clips to the battery wouldn't.

 

[Grigio Van Grigio]

The one to be aware of is dash cams. Sorting out the kids car insurance I found that a hardwired dash cam is classed as a modification & raised the premiums, but one plugged into a lighter socket did not need to be declared as it was no different to say plugging your phone or a tom tom in to charge.

If you take that a step further, a solar panel hardwired would be declarable. A solar panel mounted on a roof rack connected via crocodile clips to the battery wouldn't.

That’s certainly true of your insurer but each insurer has a different definition of what constitutes a modification. So for example, some insurers define a modification as anything done to the vehicle since it was first delivered by the manufacturer (I.e. not including factory fitted extras) and some define it as any deviation to standard spec (i.e. you’d have to tell them about optional extras fitted as well). Always import to fully read the t’s and c’s and the wording of the questions you are being asked.

In relation to a dash cam increasing your insurance premium, that feels counter intuitive to me and, in fact, some insurers offer a discount for a dash cam as it can help in the claims process. It depends on how sophisticated the insurers algorithms are, or even possibly how the dash cam has been recorded in the system.

 

[MountainRunner]

You make very salient points, I'm guessing you'd probably have to let the DVLA know about a wrap as the colour is on the V5 document, but I'm not sure.

I suppose the upshot is all insurers ask to be informed of any modifications, and as the OP found out the company want to add a premium for the solar panels. However unfair that may seem, it's better that than them refusing a claim or voiding the policy due to non-disclosure.

Nail on the head. It's all about insurable risk and a bike rack has value; we have heard on this forum about them being stolen, but even if you don't claim for the rack itself, it's likely the vehicle would be damaged if it was removed forcibly - risk goes up.

Insurance is purely driven by statistics driven algorithms: they will plug in all the variables and if either through someone setting a particular variable as being attributed to higher risk, or if there's a past history of those variables resulting in increased frequency and/or value of claims, they'll bump the insurance premium accordingly. With the solar panels, it could be something as simple as statistically those with solar panels are more likely to wild camp, those who wild camp are more likely to leave their vehicles unattended in remote locations and therefore suffer more frequent break-ins to their vehicles.

Thanks @RockinNRollin , interesting points about the wild camping, I hadn't thought about that.

 

[Grigio Van Grigio]

The one to be aware of is dash cams. Sorting out the kids car insurance I found that a hardwired dash cam is classed as a modification & raised the premiums, but one plugged into a lighter socket did not need to be declared as it was no different to say plugging your phone or a tom tom in to charge.

If you take that a step further, a solar panel hardwired would be declarable. A solar panel mounted on a roof rack connected via crocodile clips to the battery wouldn't.

One’s a modification and one’s an accessory! It’s a nightmare trying to write finite rules for an infinite array of circumstances!