Parking a VW California on a new-build development?

[CaliKate]

Apologies if I've used the wrong section to post this question but we're in the process of moving house and are looking at a few new-build developments. One of the Redrow schemes has a "Restrictive Covenants" list of rules, and one being "no boat trailers or caravans shall be parked or permitted or suffered to remain on the Plot in advance of the building line or so as to be visible from any road on the Estate".

Does this apply to VW Californias? Does anyone know? Thanks in advance!

 

[Digger]

No one can answer this with confidence. Check with the builder and get it in writing if allowed.

 

[Tom Rae]

Apologies if I've used the wrong section to post this question but we're in the process of moving house and are looking at a few new-build developments. One of the Redrow schemes has a "Restrictive Covenants" list of rules, and one being "no boat trailers or caravans shall be parked or permitted or suffered to remain on the Plot in advance of the building line or so as to be visible from any road on the Estate".

Does this apply to VW Californias? Does anyone know? Thanks in advance!

Surely it is not a caravan or boat trailer?

Tom

 

[CaliKate]

No one can answer this with confidence. Check with the builder and get it in writing if allowed.

That's a good idea. I'll double-check!

 

[CaliKate]

Surely it is not a caravan or boat trailer?

Tom

Agreed. But you can't be too careful about these things. It's going to be our only vehicle, so the last thing we want is to move into our new home and then find a neighbour isn't happy and instigates the "rules".

 

[Meoncoast]

There is a large post about this topic. I would get it in writing before signing for me it would be a deal breaker if no camper agreement

 

[CaliKate]

There is a large post about this topic. I would get it in writing before signing for me it would be a deal breaker if no camper agreement

Thanks, I'll search again and try and find it!

 

[Sandyvan]

Its just a big estate car, or in the case of post March 19 an MPV, just don't put the roof up. According to my partner who lived in a modern house before we met and had the same covenant, as soon as the builders pulled off site and all the houses had sold no-one cared. its the developers who don't want the place cluttered while showing people the houses they want to promote utopian.

 

[CaliKate]

Its just a big estate car, or in the case of post March 19 an MPV, just don't put the roof up. According to my partner who lived in a modern house before we met and had the same covenant, as soon as the builders pulled off site and all the houses had sold no-one cared. its the developers who don't want the place cluttered while showing people the houses they want to promote utopian.

Interesting. It's all rather odd and snobby, if you ask me!

 

[Ting Tong]

This is a long thread on the topic but searching covenant brings up a few others. If you haven’t bought yet I’d raise it and walk away if they don’t agree it in writing. There doesn’t seem to be any established case law but I’d be surprised if a beach would be as it’s not equipped for camping.

When is a caravan not a caravan?

Thank you everybody. Any assistance is very much appreciated Your posts are helping to keep me on an even keel. Update VW have responded by telephone this morning. Unfortunately VW are unable to provide any legal support in this case but suggested citizens advice or Pro Bono from a local...

www.vwcaliforniaclub.com

 

[2into1]

Those implying this is daft, silly, or not relevant to a Cali, should pay more attention to previous threads which show this is can be a major issue.

 

[motacyclist]

When we were buying a new house a couple of years ago there was a covenant on ours stating “no house on wheels” or words to that effect.

I sent them a photograph and description of the VW California and asked if it was acceptable, and they confirmed in writing that it was. If they hadn’t, the move would not have been on.

Others have not been so lucky and one unfortunate owner in a thread on here had to sell their Cali after the builders threatened legal action.

 

[GrannyJen]

As others have said above, it's a deal breaker.

There is no point trawling backwards looking for other posts on this subject, each situation is different, but the recurrent theme is that loosely worded covenants can be severely restrictive unless you have evidence to prove that at the time of purchase your vehicle, or prospective vehicle, complied.

Yes, a Cali is not a boat or trailer, but if it can be slept in then some smart-arse somewhere can stir the pot. It should be simple question to the vendor's solicitors, "This is a California, can we have confirmation that it is excluded from your covenant".

 

[Sandyvan]

Wise words from GrannyJen. I was merely passing on an individual case. The builders don't like it while they are selling the plots. They don't want the estate resembling a campsite, they want all the euro boxes in neat lines with no people or clutter.

 

[CaliKate]

Thanks so much for your replies. Very much appreciated.

 

[Amarillo]

Surely it is not a caravan or boat trailer?

It is likely that the V5C lists it as having a body type of a motor caravan. A California Ocean certainly has most of the features of a caravan, a California Beach just a few features of a caravan.

 

[TripleBee]

And again: tell them it's your only car. If they would not let you park there, ask them why not, and if a 'normal' Multivan may be parked there. Tell them it's the same vehicle, only with other furniture than a Multivan.

 

[MattBW]

Check your V5, if it says MPV on there you don't really have as much to worry about, it would be a simpler argument.

 

[daveyboydanger]

Apologies if I've used the wrong section to post this question but we're in the process of moving house and are looking at a few new-build developments. One of the Redrow schemes has a "Restrictive Covenants" list of rules, and one being "no boat trailers or caravans shall be parked or permitted or suffered to remain on the Plot in advance of the building line or so as to be visible from any road on the Estate".

Does this apply to VW Californias? Does anyone know? Thanks in advance!

I’ve lived in a similar red row estate for 5 years and have parked our Beach in the drive without an issue. Probably comes down to whether someone complains. Can’t remember the exact wording on our covenant but reckon you could argue your way out of anything troublesome. As someone else said though you might want something in writing if you’re worried.

 

[Ch1pbutty]

"no boat trailers or caravans shall be parked or permitted or suffered to remain on the Plot in advance of the building line or so as to be visible from any road on the Estate".

Think you are safe as a caravan doesn't have an engine.

 

[WelshGas]

"no boat trailers or caravans shall be parked or permitted or suffered to remain on the Plot in advance of the building line or so as to be visible from any road on the Estate".

Think you are safe as a caravan doesn't have an engine.

Unfortunately that is your definition of a Caravan. Redrow might have their own and that is the problem. The best way forward is to get confirmation in writing.

 

[Perfectos]

Either have the covenant removed or it’s a deal breaker, maybe not now but it only takes one lovely neighbour to make a complaint and your up a creek without a poodle and into the realms of legal wrangling to determine what the actual Covent means.
Beware there is another forum member in a horrible situation, with legal implications, which may mean he cannot Park his Cali on his drive ( or the estate) !
Make the lifting of the covenant a condition of purchase or walk

 

[Ch1pbutty]

Once a developer has

Unfortunately that is your definition of a Caravan. Redrow might have their own and that is the problem. The best way forward is to get confirmation in writing.

True. Since found below, so potentially looks quite complex as your neighbours can take the action depending on how the covenant is worded:

//
But, whilst the first step is to check for a restrictive covenant, the next step is to determine whether it is enforceable. Some will be imposed only for a certain time (e.g. 5 years), some will prohibit caravans/vans without consent from a specific person or company, and yet others will appear to be absolute prohibitions.

The latter is where the complication arise. How to challenge what appears to be an absolute restriction. Restrictive covenants are highly technical for any lawyer, and even court cases come to different decisions. But again, your conveyancing solicitor is there to advise you. What they will look at is whether the definition above is satisfied, and then whether the developer enabled a neighbour to enforce the covenant against you – called a Building Scheme where similar convents are imposed on every property in a development and the ability to enforce is given to each owner against each other – or failing this, they look at the order of the house sales, as a restrictive covenant when imposed must benefit land refined by the developer. If the neighbour bought after your, then they may be able to enforce against you.

However, let us not forget the practical side of things, whatever the legal position. If the deeds do have restrictions which prevent caravans and commercial vans, then you may have overlooked checking them, or you may have deliberately ignored them. A lot also depends on the quality of conveyancing solicitors who act for buyers these days. Your conveyancing solicitor – if you just bought your property – should have drawn your attention to restrictive covenants such as these, and most do. Indeed, if you have an intention of parking either and are thinking about purchasing a property, draw this to the attention of your conveyancing solicitor.

If you are aware of the restriction, you may have taken a gamble that your neighbours will not enforce against you. That is risky and could be costly for you. Neighbours can club together reducing the legal cost per individual to minimal figures, and court action can be taken swiftly and effectively. You may also create a neighbour dispute in the process and that can impact the resale value of your property when you come to sell, as no buyer from you will want to move into a hostile environment.
//

 

[Perfectos]

There in lies the problem, you are depending on the skill of a conveyancing solicitor to interpret the “meaning” of the covenant, one persons interpretation differs from others. Conveyancing solicitors can miss things and people’s circumstances change, so what’s relevant when you buy may not apply later.
These type of covenants whereby restricting the type of vehicle etc are a dangerous precedent and can cause absolute misery, not to mention the implication if you want to sell your house some time later to Bob the builder, or someone who is a tradesman or has a sign written vehicle.
Redrow and all the other builders need to sell homes, homes are not selling like they used to, use this to your advantage before committing to their stock BS. Watch the sales persons face when you stand up a leave because they won’t change the covenant, more people need to do this to cut the crap these builders try to impose. They build houses, that become homes, funnily enough the guys and gals that build thos3 houses wouldn’t be able to park their work vehicle at home !!

I digress
Even the courts cannot achieve a cohesive response regarding what a particular covenant means. Once the covenant has been accepted by purchasing the property you are in the realms of the courts to decide what the “meaning” of the Covenant is.

 

[Sandyvan]

There in lies the problem, you are depending on the skill of a conveyancing solicitor to interpret the “meaning” of the covenant, one persons interpretation differs from others. Conveyancing solicitors can miss things and people’s circumstances change, so what’s relevant when you buy may not apply later.
These type of covenants whereby restricting the type of vehicle etc are a dangerous precedent and can cause absolute misery, not to mention the implication if you want to sell your house some time later to Bob the builder, or someone who is a tradesman or has a sign written vehicle.
Redrow and all the other builders need to sell homes, homes are not selling like they used to, use this to your advantage before committing to their stock BS. Watch the sales persons face when you stand up a leave because they won’t change the covenant, more people need to do this to cut the crap these builders try to impose. They build houses, that become homes, funnily enough the guys and gals that build thos3 houses wouldn’t be able to park their work vehicle at home !!

I digress
Even the courts cannot achieve a cohesive response regarding what a particular covenant means. Once the covenant has been accepted by purchasing the property you are in the realms of the courts to decide what the “meaning” of the Covenant is.

You make very good sensible points