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Please, Please - This is not meant to be contentious. T5 - T6

WelshGas

WelshGas

Retired after 42 yrs and enjoying Life.
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T5 SE 180 4Motion
There should now be a number of T5 Beach / SE owners who have updated to a T6 Beach / Ocean .
Many things are the same but according to VW there have been many changes.

Have the changes been beneficial or not. eg: The roof bellows fabric has changed Good or not so good.

This is aimed totally at those owners who have owned both T5 and T6 versions of the California.

So what do you really think. Is the hype worth it. What's good, not so good ? Give us your honest opinion.:thumb
 
As you know, I only had my (first) T5 for 4 winter month, and now the new T6 for a bit over a week. So there are many things I am not able to compare. But one thing that strikes me is the engine.

I find the new engine much more dynamic and smooth running. More quiet and really a pleasure to drive, even I only have 102 Hp. I compare it to my T5 with 114 Hp of the T5. The new engine has more grunt power that the old.

And i find the storage options on the dash a lot better on the T6. And the mounts for the blinds in the windshield are better to. To that I must say the lights in the rear door comes very handy to.
 
Hello,

we have owned a T5 Comfortline for three years from 01/13 to 01/16.
Ordered our T6 Ocean in February 2016 and it was delivered end of April.
In my opinion its a big step forward. The engine 204hp is much more quieter then the 140hp one we have had before.
The dashboard is very good and it feels like a real car not only a transporter!
The new technical gimmicks work perfekt and I like them very much. ACC in combination with DSG is marvelous. Side Assist helps a lot. and so on.

Conclusion: if you are planning to buy a T6 with many technical helpers then its a big improvement to the T5. If you are planning to buy a T6 with basic hardware you won't find many improvements.
 
And almost nobody believed the new engine is quieter. It is noticeable even during a test drive.
 
And almost nobody believed the new engine is quieter. It is noticeable even during a test drive.
Can we please keep this thread to Owners who have Genuinely owned both vehicles, a T5 and a T6, so that we can have a truly Objective comparison. No offence intended.
 
I have replaced my 2006 T5 4motion 174 which I had for 10 years (130K) with a T6 4mot DSG 204, and done 5K so far in the last 2 months. The 2006 Cali was remapped with Oettinger software (up 16%) and had 5 speed manual (at the time there was no option to go auto with 4wd). Also had upgraded suspension with Bilstein B6 to firm up and control handling so it drove pretty well. Despite all this still had somewhat of a commercial feel and we found increasingly tiring to drive on long trips.

Biggest improvement in our new T6 is in the driving - more power with greater acceleration, smoother engine (and quieter) and fabulous DSG box. Ride smoother as well and less like a commercial van - more pax car-like and comfortable. We go to France quite a bit (15 hour drives) but in the last few years were tending to favour our Freelander over the T5 as it was less fatiguing a journey (15 to 16 hours). Now take the new T6. This alone made the upgrade worthwhile for us.

Normal camping bits inside not much different - few refinements (table latch in the sliding door better (don't need to use a screwdriver!) and folding table doesn't rattle yet - I agree ad-ons though are well worth getting such as adaptive cruise, side scan etc and the av/phone interface options, and lighting much better too with LED reactive headlights.

Worth changing? For us definitely yes, as our old Cali was at 10 years and ready for an upgrade (and only depreciated £1500 a year over the 10years - not many vehicles do that!). I would say the biggest gain for us is in the driving, partic. with the auto box. Only criticism was in the slightly wallowy handling but have just had vb-air fitted (still evaluating) which seems to have improved this partic with the "sport" setting - 3 cm lowered
 
I'm really interested in getting people's views on how the new fabric compares to the old.

There have been 2 trails on this which had a very short life span. I'm surprised there has not been any serious debate on this as it occurs to me that the rising roof/sleep facility is one of the key features of the Cali.

They must have got it right on the T6?
 
  • Agree
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I have thought long and hard about writing this piece but have decided that it may be helpful to some potential new Cali owners so here goes.

About four years ago when Mrs B and I could see that our family was starting to expand exponentially we began to look for a larger suitable vehicle in which to both safely cart our grandchildren about and to sleep in during necessary escapes from the same and life in general. After looking at all sorts of vehicles we narrowed our search to the VW Transporter range. We discovered that the VW Shuttle made an excellent people carrier but was no good as a mobile escape pod. The Caravelle with the bed pack seemed to be the way to go but during one of our many trips to VW dealerships to research this important and expensive decision we were introduced to the California SE. The result of that meeting was a decision to buy a full fat no compromise camper van for our use and to deal with the people carrier needs later on when the children became too big to fit comfortably in our family car. We therefore purchased one of the last four seater T5 SE 180 dsg 4motions. It was an ex demo vehicle and has proved to be a truely wonderful vehicle since we collected it in October. Since then we have had many days out in her (Margot) and five trips away. She stands fully provisioned and ever ready for us to disappear off somewhere at the drop of a hat. FANTASTIC and our decision to opt for a late model T5 SE has proved to be a massive success.
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Then earlier this year I had an unexpected financial opportunity that ment that we were able to re-visit the people carrier issue in order to cope with our growing family needs (currently eight grandchildren). Now having already done the research we trotted back to the same dealer that we had purchased Margot from (SMG Tonbridge) with the intention of buying a Caravelle to replace our eleven year old car. What we eventually drove away in was their ex demonstrator T6 California Beach. Although when we saw it in January it hadn't been registered and we had to wait until the 1st of June to get our mitts on it. For those Who want to know, we managed a +15% discount including a loyalty bonus and received a Cali with 171 miles on the clock. Result! Laine Watts the Salesman was brilliant throughout.
Like Margot, this vehicle, now named Bluebell Bus, had every option that I would have picked plus a few extra and is perfect for our needs. In the three weeks since we collected her she has been used for school runs, has been stripped out to carry a whole christening party in boxes to a local hall and this weekend will be used as a seven seat people carrier at our youngest sons wedding. Last weekend we even spent the weekend in her at the Lower Lode with the Cali Club but only because I wanted to discuss having something made for her with Nick from Comfortz. She also proved superb to sit and sleep in as well.
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Our reasons for buying another Cali and not a Caravelle are:
1. After you include all of the extras that we wanted there isn't that much difference in price.
2. Whilst you lose a sliding door you gain a pop up roof and all the usual Cali camping equipment.
3. We will be able to use both Calis on holidays with our family.
4. The extra scope that the Cali Beach gives you over the Caravelle is amazing when you are looking after little ones during the holidays and at other times. Picnics in the Beach are a highlight for them and trips to the beach will be a lot easier with the blinds and parking heater available to reduce some of the inevitable torture.
5. The no nonsense wipe down interior is much better suited to our needs than that of the more swanky Caravelle.
6. The residuals mean that our money should be safer with a Beach than a Caravelle.

So why did this chap not just buy a Beach in the first place I hear you ask?
Well for one thing, as I have described above, our decision making process led us to buying a proper camper van first for our own exclusive use with no compromises. However our main reason was that we wanted to clear off on a wim in a fully kitted out vehicle without the hours of digging stuff out and packing it in after first removing the seats etc. In a word - spontaneity.

We hadn't intended buying another Cali but now that we have, the Beach is rapidly proving to be the right choice. Our need was for a general purpose family car that can fulfil many different roles well and so far it has exceeded all of our expectatations. Wow, what a great vehicle! And you can camp in it as well.


Now having explained how we have unexpectedly ended up with two Calis I will try to answer WG's question. I say try because we have only had Bluebell bus for three weeks so it is early days yet. However I wiil give a full report later after I have had a good poke round and have done some more miles.

So we now find ourselves the owners of a T5 SE 180dsg 4motion and a T6 Beach 150 six speed manual. The differences couldn't be further apart so all I can do is to report my impressions and not to attempt any direct comparisons.

So first impressions are:
1. The Beach is a very versatile vehicle ideally suited to our varied current needs as a general purpose day van and people carrier.
2. Whilst the manual gearbox is lovely I do miss the DSG a lot. I have stalled the manual a few times forgetting that you need to use the clutch!
3. The rugged bog standard commercial vehicle dash is perfect. It has lots of cubby holes and is very practical unlike the expensive flashy optional upgrade. I even think that even if it were the same price I would still prefer the basic dash.
4. The engine is very smooth, quiet and pulls very well. However I wouldn't like to say at this stage that it is any less noisy than the 180 engine in the SE.
5. Without trying to achieve any good fuel economy figures, the Beach is currently reading an average of around 44 mpg on the computor with less than 1000 miles on the clock so the prospects for even better mpg over the long term are good. I haven't done a brim to brim test yet.
6. With the exception of the fabric seats which we have fitted waterproof covers to, the materials used in the interior are all tough and easy to wipe down and keep clean. A good example is the front door cards. The SE has a fabric insert which I have always felt are vunerable to wear and tear, whereas the more basic Beach interior has a less fancy one piece tough plastic door card.
7. The manual roof is very easy to operate and seems blisfully simple compared to the electro/hydraulic version. However in adition to the usual scissor issue, you also have to ensure that you do not trap any fabric in the catches that hold the roof down as apparently this is another potential cause of holes in the fabric.
8. The roof material is much lighter making, IMO, an internal liner essential. No observations yet on whether it is more waterproof than the old canvas.
9. Apart from an annoying rattle coming from the awning it seems to be no more noisy on the road than our T5 SE.
10. The trip switch for the electric hook up on the Beach is a nightmare to get at with that muti board thing in place.
11. The T6 doesn't have the rub strips down each side that the T5 has. This means that you are even more aware of the potential for damage.
12. There no longer appears to be the DVD player function that the 510 system has on the top end radio sat nav option on the T6.

I will endeavour to expand on my experience of both later but Mrs B has just reminded me that there is more to life than the VW Cali Forum and who am I to disagree with her.
 
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I've got a 2009 T5 Cali SE and a T6 Transporter panel van. There's a massive difference between the two when driving, the T6 is loads quieter and smoother, the steering is much sharper with a classy Golf multi function steering wheel and the dash is much more modern and upmarket.
Perhaps not quite in keeping with the thread question but if it annoys Welshgas then it was worth posting!
I know who could've answered the question as they went from T5.1 Cali to a T6 but they got hounded out of here so are unable to share their opinion.
And I think it's pretty rude to tell someone to keep out of a thread after making a perfectly harmless post

Sent from my Galaxy S6
 
Now that I have had a little more time to consider the pros and cons so far, here are a few further observations on the changes in the new T6 Beach.

Concept lighting - before actually owning a T6 I confess that I couldn't see what all the fuss was about. However this option is actually very useful. It provides very good lighting upstairs with switches on both sides of the roof for left and right hand roof lights/reading lights as well as another at the rear of the roof. This is a real improvement over the single bendy light on the T5. Another very useful feature of this option is the twin lights in the tailgate. Trying to get stuff out of the boot in the dark on the T5 requires the use of a head torch despite the boot light. On the T6 these new lights are a massive improvement as they illuminate the whole boot area and the ground as well. However because these lights are fairly low down the rear hatch door card they are not visible when the hatch is closed. The result is that these lights were found to have been accidentally left on all the time for nearly the whole of the first week! All these lights are dimable.

kutamo Seat fabric - I was never a fan of the muticloured deck chair fabric used on the T5 Beach. Although VW did offer a more plain and sober option I always thought that it wasn't a particularly practical material to be used in a mutti purpose vehicle. I imagine that it wasn't that easy to keep clean and presentable. However the dark Katuma cloth used in the T6 is a different matter. IMO it looks and feals to be a better quality and should hide the marks of use much better. Not sure about the light grey alternative though. Vw should offer a full leather option in a vehicle of this type. You can have it in the Caravelle and they appear to be the same seats. It would be much easier to look after,

16" Clayton wheels - whilst 16" wheels are not new to the T6 I thought that I would mention that I like the high side walls as they cushion the ride more, are less likely to get curbed and the tyres are a lot cheaper. These new wheels on the other hand are quite a complicated design and are not the easiest to clean.

Heated windscreen - Well obviously I can't say if it is an good thing over the T5 until the winter arrives but if it works as it is designed to then it has to be a worthwhile improvement on the T6.

Discovery Media Sat Navigation System - this is the co-pilots department as I tend to glaze over if electrical gadgets becomes too complicated and usually resort to pressing all the buttons and becoming grumpy when things don't go my way. Seriously, I prefer Mrs B to deal with all that as it can become too much of a distraction when on the move. She reports that so far she has found it an easy system to operate and two new features have impressed her so far.
1. She likes the way the scale of the sat nav map alters automatically when you come to a new junction enabling you to get a better idean of the layout. I don't know if the RNS510 does this but if it does we haven't found it yet.
2. The proximity feature is also very interesting with more controls appearing when you put your hand close to the unit.
However as previously stated this new system doesn't appear to allow you to play DVDs. The T5 RNS 510 system does. Whilst this isn't a feature that gets used a lot, dropping it is a backward step IMO.

More later as its now bed time.
 
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Welshgas created this thread and was just trying to keep it on topic as requested in the original post. It didn't take long for an irrelevant sarcastic comment to appear, let's just keep it on topic. Interesting to know how people feel who have made the move from T5 to T6.
 
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My apologies. Thanks to being seriously inconvenienced by a few of WG's ex professional colleagues over the last few days I have not been particularly active in the forum.

I'm sorry this thread has descended into personal attacks. It offers a valuable comparison, especially for me, who may well consider changing vehicles in the not to distant future.

I have great respect for Paul's contributions, I have even greater respect for his ability to hold his own in debate, and that ability is rarely compromised or influenced by personal attack , so I have no idea what prompts the "good bye" message. It may be that he just wants a rest from the forum, and as someone who posts with so much authority and comprehension, that would not surprise me.

Can we please now keep to the topic, those who have comprehensive experience of both models please step forward, such a useful topic.
 
Good grief! How could a seemingly simple post go this wrong? Come on folks this is a help forum for people who share an interest in the VW California. It shouldn't be a place to snipe, scrap and throw toys out of prams. I generally don't do social media and have only ever belonged to one forum, this one. Do all forums have these episodes?
Can't we all just get back to chatting nicely about our lovely motors?
 
That's exactly what it was, a bit of banter.
It seems as though there are a lot of serious minded members with no sense of humour. I've no axe to grind with welshgas but if everyone wants to take offence to it then it's up to them, it really doesn't bother me either way.
And if i'm going to be called childish or an idiot then it says more about them than it does about me.
And I think the bye comment was aimed at me to keep out of the thread but why should I? I posted my observations about differences between the T5 and T6 as per the thread, so what if one of them isn't a California my comments are still valid.

Sent from my Galaxy S6
I agree Freeley - we have these vans to enjoy ourselves and oddly and rather voyeuristically i find this forum quite entertaining - i am not beyond the odd quip or bombshell myself, and i would like to support you in your attempt at irony and frivolity - it was certainly not lost on me. I also support WG for getting all stroppy and offended because i think that is fine too. There for the grace of god eh ......
 
I agree Freeley - we have these vans to enjoy ourselves and oddly and rather voyeuristically i find this forum quite entertaining - i am not beyond the odd quip or bombshell myself, and i would like to support you in your attempt at irony and frivolity - it was certainly not lost on me. I also support WG for getting all stroppy and offended because i think that is fine too. There for the grace of god eh ......
Lol this forum needs a few more like you!

Sent from my Galaxy S6
 
If I may add an observation:

When I was "shopping" I found many discussion places on FB and many forums, but they were all terribly blokey and some, in particular a forum not too far from here, downright combatively hostile.

Now, criticism does not bother me, nor banter, nor edginess in debate: what bothers me is when every post is treated as a combative challenge for others to reply personally and aggressively to, I, and many others, want a forum relatively free of that where we can discuss lifestyle and technical issues and revel in the joy the freedom of owning a cali gives us. This is what I found here and why I stayed.

Tempers will get raised, passions ignited, cross words exchanged, it's a forum for goodness sake and that is the nature of forums. All I want is that once said it's left, allowed to cool down and valuable threads such as this one allowed to get back on topic. Both Freely and WG have offered loads to this forum, let's respect that.

I have also been deeply embarrassed, when taking a break at the beginning of the year, same health problems as now, my absence was construed to be due to other causes and whilst the original concern expressed was welcome the resulting maul, in-fighting, unjustified attacks on Admin etc were certainly not welcome.

If I know Paul, and I hope I do, he will have the same concerns as me that innocent remarks, a step back from the forum for a few weeks or just days, will erupt into forum nastiness. It's not nice to see one's name bandied about to clobber other people over the head with.

Now, my observations from trying a T6 is, nicer to drive, not sure about the roof canvas, disappointed at the lack of progress in the somewhat spartan living quarters, I can see no reason to rush to change but if others can prove me wrong then please do so as, being a big kid really, I just love shiny new toys.
 
We hired a T5 Cali SE twice. Last time Martin's Ruby summer 2015
The camping element was a real winner for us, lots of storage space for 2 adults & 2 westies . So much better than camping in a tent, luxury.
Our views on the T6 ocean so far:
Still has the great T5 layout in the living area of the cab
Simon loves the adaptive cruise . Great shiny dash board with lots of storage,
Discovered another one yesterday.
The new boot & roof lighting is so much better. Both areas controlled by dimmer switch.
We prefer the new canvas & the interior blinds. The front window pull out is great once you master the art & drop the sun visors over it. Not too much of a gap.
We hired a 180 DSG ,husband says the 150 DSG similar power but much smoother to drive.
In essence T6 has the good elements of the T5 with the improved engine/ adaptive control .
 
Good to see the mods have taken freeleys stripes away, sometimes you just need to bite your tongue
 
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Good to see the mods have taken freeleys stripes away, sometimes you just need to bit your tongue
Oh no I've lost my stripes how will I cope? I've no idea what they are anyway.
Maybe you should follow your own advice if you have nothing constructive to say (as usual in your case).

Sent from my Galaxy S6
 
Firstly WG has asked a perfectly legitimate question here to help T5 owners consider the differences to help them to decide to change or wait for a T7! I agree it is shameful for Forum members to get shitty - I detect the same thing from the Brexit, 'In' or 'Out' debate on other social media and it just illustrates how easy it is to create disharmony and distrust - sorry rant over! :)

Speaking as a one off user of a T5 over a long weekend and now an Ocean T6 owner all I can add over and above the long list above is:
  1. Its new and I like new stuff!
  2. Info-tainment system is as good as Jaguar and Porsche and so much better than T5
  3. Standard sound system is amazing and much better again
  4. Dials, wall fabrics, dash and finishes are far superior and less plasticky
  5. Lights in cabin and especially over rear door is 100% better
  6. Steering wheel sportier and smaller and easier to drive
  7. Darker wood finish in interior habitation units are more stylish (subject to taste)
  8. I chose Alcantara but the Ocean standard fabric is much more stylish and better quality than SE which was always a major disappointment for me considering the bloody cost of the thing!
  9. Roof fabric is lighter and seems to be more water proof but not 100% sure - this lets in more light too which is both a good and bad thing depending on sleep-over in the mornings so that's maybe a worse feature in some respects but great in the daytime where light floods in much more and is therefore more welcoming - again this is a taste thing
  10. Drives like a dream and accelerates better judging by the 204 BHP compared to 180 BHP
Things I don't like:
  • B/W control interface for roof and fridge etc is too small and completely naff and not improved at all on T5 model
  • Don't like manual handbrake and the fact that the warning indicator is pretty lame if you drive off with handbrake on (I am used to electric handbrakes and a pretty crappy driver!)
  • There should be a fail-safe if you leave roof up and attempt to drive off - an audio/visual display on the user panel would have been brilliant and easily achievable - all you get is a pathetic bleep! (I did try and drive off but only to get a better spot on the beach in Western-Super-Mare!!
  • Style of van is slightly better than T5 but a more radicle re-design to make it more visually striking would have been better - funny thing is I do like the shape of a T4 better and of course would love a retro design on a T1 but this is asking too much of a commercial van design team who have rested on their laurels in my humble opinion and afraid to be adventurous so they played safe to retain interest from T5 owners
  • Lack of carpet in habitation is a miserly omission and should be standard with an option to go spartan if owners want
  • Lack of options for a solar panel is backward thinking
  • Van sales left to commercial people and as a result there is a lack of training and a completely different customer base that requires specialist sales - they also let themselves down by not selling in the domestic car environment to generate cross-selling but that is not particularly answering WG question
That's it - awaiting some digs from some folk but hey bring it on!!

ps: one more thing - my glass cover over the cooker rattled when driving and they found out that the little plastic lugs were missing! Poor quality control here VW!
 
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Fair enough definitely a yawn .
Just found your post because someone just liked my post above it .
 
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