Reversed polarity

rippers · Apr 18, 2015

Is there a reversed polarity indicator in the Cali Se when plugging in the Hook up lead?

Freeley · Apr 18, 2015

No you need to buy a polarity tester and check yourself once hooked up

rippers · Apr 18, 2015

Okey dokey will get one ordered, every other site we visited between france and spain was reversed. We had a indicator on the hook up lead we used to dangle thou the window in Beach.
silly question but being a two pin continental lead if it it reversed can you just plug the lead in upside down on the campsite oulet??
Also what damage can you/what effect will it have on a California SE if it is reversed? Do the batteries not charge? power inverter/fridge/heater not work?? or does it just have effect on what you plug into the 240v plug socket inside? Pretty sure most modern appliances can be reversed without effect?
Any advise would be great, thanks in advance

jts46 · Apr 18, 2015

Freeley said:
No you need to buy a polarity tester and check yourself once hooked up

Or make up a short lead that you reverse wiring

John

rippers · Apr 18, 2015

johntowers46 said:
Or make up a short lead that you reverse wiring

but would would need to know whether wiring was reversed first as its random across France and Spain.. some are, some aren't.
You could end up reversing a socket that doesn't need it and be back where you started

rippers · Apr 18, 2015

Just picked one up for a bargain price http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B001KMP50C/?tag=eliteelect-21

jts46 · Apr 18, 2015

rippers said:
but would would need to know whether wiring was reversed first as its random across France and Spain.. some are, some aren't.
You could end up reversing a socket that doesn't need it and be back where you started

Buy one of these and reverse one end electrically then you have a cable that is reversed in the van, that is what i use. this image was taken off ebay.

John

Freeley · Apr 18, 2015

rippers said:
Okey dokey will get one ordered, every other site we visited between france and spain was reversed. We had a indicator on the hook up lead we used to dangle thou the window in Beach.
silly question but being a two pin continental lead if it it reversed can you just plug the lead in upside down on the campsite oulet??
Also what damage can you/what effect will it have on a California SE if it is reversed? Do the batteries not charge? power inverter/fridge/heater not work?? or does it just have effect on what you plug into the 240v plug socket inside? Pretty sure most modern appliances can be reversed without effect?
Any advise would be great, thanks in advance

I think everything still works but anything plugged in remains live at all times (I'm not an electrician btw). I think the risk of electric shock is small but I always have a reverse wired lead and a tester in the van when we go abroad.

GrannyJen · Apr 18, 2015

I carry a tester. Never used it. I simply do not use the 230v that much. The only 230v bit of kit in my van is my hairdryer and normally there's one in most shower blocks anyway.

andyinluton · Apr 19, 2015

I can't see reversed polarity being a problem on anything I'm likely to plug into the van.
I think all my camera/laptop/phone chargers use a 2 pin figure of 8 connector into the actual device on the opposite end of the lead to the plug, so they have a 50/50 chance as to which side is live. the only thing I can think of that might be sensitive is an old style TV rather than a flat screen.
I might be wrong but I believe the circuit breaker fitted to the van is twin pole & therefore works whichever way round the van is connected.

Raggedroy · Apr 19, 2015

Reversed polarity will not effect the California. The problem is with the appliances you plug in. The California has a double pole RCBO, in the event of a fault or overload both live an neutral are disconnected. Anything you plug into the 13A socket in the California will have a fuse in the live (except phone chargers etc). In the event of an overload the fuse will blow whether the polarity is right or wrong but if the polarity is wrong the appliance will still have power. Any switch is usual in the live side only so with reversed polarity the appliance will still have power. Anything you plug in will operate fine whether the polarity is right or wrong, its the safety side that needs consideration.

andyinluton · Apr 19, 2015

I accept that, but any fault that is enough to blow a fuse in the item would also trip the RCBO in the van. In fact the van protection is more sensitive than a fuse so you should never get a fuse blowing, the van will trip instead.

Raggedroy · Apr 19, 2015

andyinluton said:
I accept that, but any fault that is enough to blow a fuse in the item would also trip the RCBO in the van. In fact the van protection is more sensitive than a fuse so you should never get a fuse blowing, the van will trip instead.

The RCBO in the van is10A overload, it is quite possible to have a small appliance with a 1A fuse in it. Depending on the fault current both fuse and RCBO could operate.

If we use a figure of 1.58ohm (estimate) for the earth fault loop impedance (ze) on a fictitious hook up point. This would allow us to calculate the prospective short circuit current of 151A. This assuming the fault is between line and neutral as a fault to earth would be handled by the RCD function of the RCBO. Now I don't have my Regs book with me to check the time/current characteristics for the fuse and RCBO but I believe both state 0.1 sec. Which one would operate first? Your guess.

One classic case where reverse polarity is reason for concern is the Edison screw (ES) lamp holder. The centre pin should be live and the outer screw neutral. If you reverse this the screw section becomes live. With a blown fuse, thinking the lamp has blown, it is quite easy to touch the live side of the screw. The RCD function in the van would hopefully protect you for death but you are going to know you touched it.

Raggedroy · Apr 19, 2015

andyinluton said:
I can't see reversed polarity being a problem on anything I'm likely to plug into the van.
I think all my camera/laptop/phone chargers use a 2 pin figure of 8 connector into the actual device on the opposite end of the lead to the plug, so they have a 50/50 chance as to which side is live. the only thing I can think of that might be sensitive is an old style TV rather than a flat screen.
I might be wrong but I believe the circuit breaker fitted to the van is twin pole & therefore works whichever way round the van is connected.

On reversed polarity the fuse would be in the neutral. The appliance wouldn't know the difference. By the way, I don't carry a polarity tester, I'm not overly concerned, the protection in the van is adequate.

teeboy · Apr 19, 2015

Ditto - Raggedroy - traveled all over Europe and never bothered. Only "big" thing we plug in is a travel kettle, everything else is on a figure of 8 connector so can't care

Neilgbj · Apr 19, 2015

For mere mortals this thread is becoming incomprehensible.....

Andresz · Apr 19, 2015

I think:
For the Cali Circuit it does not matter; the 230V goes directly to the transformer, and the connection, reverse or not, makes no difference.
For the plugged in appliances there might be a theoretical danger, the same as at home in fact, I bet many of the wall sockets at home has reversed polarity and nobody cares or knows about it.
I would only care about appliances like electric blanket, in this case the risk is potentially higher.
Andrzej