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Should I expect more?

Borris

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I've just collected Mrs Bs motor after it's service. The video report sent to my email, shows that the front O/S tyre has a screw through it and is worn on the inner edge, as is the N/S front tyre. The front N/S and both the rears also have deep cuts down to the steel belting. They recommend four new tyres.

Now, not being one to allow my loved ones or indeed, yours truly, to run around on dodgy rubber, I will have to replace them pdq. Accordingly, I've just priced them up on t'internet and it looks like four new Michelin run flats will cost me somewhere around £1300.......... Deep joy! Then there's the wheel alignment and my lost time on top. Not a remarkable story I hear you say. However, my question is: why do tyres never seem to last long enough to actually wear out these days? I can't think of a single occasion in recent years, when I have actually replaced a worn out tyre. This car has only covered 11900 gentle miles from new and apparently it needs four new tyres and a wheel re-alignment!

A rhetorical question I know, as this kind of damage mainly comes from the deplorable state of our roads. Drove back along the unlit A20 in Kent, at night, after a day out last week and hit at least half a dozen massive hidden craters, each one bad enough to loosen ones fillings. Still, at least the alloys are still roughly circular so it could have been a lot worse.

No doubt the current thinking is that we shouldn't be leaving our "fifteen minute" habitation areas and if we do, then it serves us right if we hit these un-official traffic calming measures. Some remain unsorted for months on end. It seems that money can always be found to waste on all manner of other unworthy causes. Fixing the roads in a timely manner doesn't seem to be a priority any more. Unfortunately, as my long suffering wife will tell you, with every successive jarring, crashing encounter, my calm rapidly dissapeared with the air progressively turning blue. Unfortunately, the days are long gone where you could obtain compensation if damage was caused to your vehicle by a major un-resolved flaw in the road surface.

That's it, rant over.
 
Ch1pbutty

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Ditch the run flats, cheaper and will be a more comfortable drive. Will also reduce stress on the alloys when you hit a pothole.

(Runflats used to be a big issue on BMW alloy rims - alloys used to crack.)
 
Meoncoast

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My question would also be why run runflats
 
Borris

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Ditch the run flats, cheaper and will be a more comfortable drive. Will also reduce stress on the alloys when you hit a pothole.
Not a bad idea except Mrs Bs motor doesn't have a spare or even one of those squirty foam/compressor kits. Even if it did, tyre depots often won't repair tyres that have had that foam stuff used in them. At more than £300 a tyre, I would at least like to retain the repair option. Given our luck with tyres, non run flats could leave us stranded waiting for the recovery vehicle. At least we can still drive to a tyre depot on run flats.
 
Wesel

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I've just collected Mrs Bs motor after it's service. The video report sent to my email, shows that the front O/S tyre has a screw through it and is worn on the inner edge, as is the N/S front tyre. The front N/S and both the rears also have deep cuts down to the steel belting. They recommend four new tyres.

Now, not being one to allow my loved ones or indeed, yours truly, to run around on dodgy rubber, I will have to replace them pdq. Accordingly, I've just priced them up on t'internet and it looks like four new Michelin run flats will cost me somewhere around £1300.......... Deep joy! Then there's the wheel alignment and my lost time on top. Not a remarkable story I hear you say. However, my question is: why do tyres never seem to last long enough to actually wear out these days? I can't think of a single occasion in recent years, when I have actually replaced a worn out tyre. This car has only covered 11900 gentle miles from new and apparently it needs four new tyres and a wheel re-alignment!

A rhetorical question I know, as this kind of damage mainly comes from the deplorable state of our roads. Drove back along the unlit A20 in Kent, at night, after a day out last week and hit at least half a dozen massive hidden craters, each one bad enough to loosen ones fillings. Still, at least the alloys are still roughly circular so it could have been a lot worse.

No doubt the current thinking is that we shouldn't be leaving our "fifteen minute" habitation areas and if we do, then it serves us right if we hit these un-official traffic calming measures. Some remain unsorted for months on end. It seems that money can always be found to waste on all manner of other unworthy causes. Fixing the roads in a timely manner doesn't seem to be a priority any more. Unfortunately, as my long suffering wife will tell you, with every successive jarring, crashing encounter, my calm rapidly dissapeared with the air progressively turning blue. Unfortunately, the days are long gone where you could obtain compensation if damage was caused to your vehicle by a major un-resolved flaw in the road surface.

That's it, rant over.
What was the brand of your tires? Was it the original tires?
 
Ch1pbutty

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Not a bad idea except Mrs Bs motor doesn't have a spare or even one of those squirty foam/compressor kits. Even if it did, tyre depots often won't repair tyres that have had that foam stuff used in them. At more than £300 a tyre, I would at least like to retain the repair option. Given our luck with tyres, non run flats could leave us stranded waiting for the recovery vehicle. At least we can still drive to a tyre depot on run flats.
Most runflats shouldn’t be repaired, although alot of backstreet tyre fitters will happily perform:


Some tyre gunk can now be washed out and tyre repaired properly:

https://www.holtsauto.com/holts/support/your-tyreweld-faqs-answered/#:~:text=Once%20you're%20back%20on,so%20it%20can%20be%20repaired.
 
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Ch1pbutty

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It’ll be cheaper to buy 4 x quality tyres and buy a spare wheel/tyre. I did this when my bmw‘s run flats hit the end of life button!
I once went in for a puncture on 530d touring with runflats….it had 2 cracked rims…worked out to be an expensive morning! (2 new rims, 4 x new non run flat tyres)
 
Borris

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It’ll be cheaper to buy 4 x quality tyres and buy a spare wheel/tyre. I did this when my bmw‘s run flats hit the end of life button!
A full sized spare probably wouldn't fit in the boot.
 
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J

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Not a bad idea except Mrs Bs motor doesn't have a spare or even one of those squirty foam/compressor kits. Even if it did, tyre depots often won't repair tyres that have had that foam stuff used in them. At more than £300 a tyre, I would at least like to retain the repair option. Given our luck with tyres, non run flats could leave us stranded waiting for the recovery vehicle. At least we can still drive to a tyre depot on run flats.
Had the same idea when I had a BMW and had to inform the insurance company, you know what they are like.
 
andyinluton

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Not a bad idea except Mrs Bs motor doesn't have a spare or even one of those squirty foam/compressor kits. Even if it did, tyre depots often won't repair tyres that have had that foam stuff used in them. At more than £300 a tyre, I would at least like to retain the repair option. Given our luck with tyres, non run flats could leave us stranded waiting for the recovery vehicle. At least we can still drive to a tyre depot on run flats.

In our household we've managed 3 punctures in 3 weeks. 2 screws in the tread & one ripped sidewall.

The hassle of getting replacement tyres & of having stressed out daughter / wife at the side of the road with a flat has prompted the following:

One temporary plug set at £3.98 stored along with an electric pump in each car.
A space saver purchased for the UP! at a heady sum of £27 off ebay
The plugged repaired tyre from the Merc has been retained in the garage at home & could be swapped back on by any tyre place if needed.
A full cradle & 17" steel spare fitted to the new van.

Also recommend the Makita 18v tyre pump, can do a Cali 18" wheel from flat to full in about 2 minutes.
If I could fit run flats on the other cars I would.
 
Borris

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Runflats shouldn’t be repaired:


Some tyre gunk can now be washed out and tyre repaired properly:

https://www.holtsauto.com/holts/support/your-tyreweld-faqs-answered/#:~:text=Once%20you're%20back%20on,so%20it%20can%20be%20repaired.
I'm no tyre expert so you may well be right. All I would say is that regarding repairs to Michelin run flat tyres specifically, various web sites say that Michelin allow one repair only per tyre. Whether that is true for the UK market, I have absolutely no idea.

The Holts product looks interesting. I might take a closer look at that before deciding what to do. I suppose the question is: Would a tyre depot be interested in carrying out the repair even if you supplied this product to clean the tyre before hand? I have had mixed responses in the past which have varied between the depot not being interested in carrying out any sort of repair, clearly only wanting to sell a new tyre, right through to a full repair carried out professionally.
 
Ch1pbutty

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I'm no tyre expert so you may well be right. All I would say is that regarding repairs to Michelin run flat tyres specifically, various web sites say that Michelin allow one repair only per tyre. Whether that is true for the UK market, I have absolutely no idea.

The Holts product looks interesting. I might take a closer look at that before deciding what to do. I suppose the question is: Would a tyre depot be interested in carrying out the repair even if you supplied this product to clean the tyre before hand? I have had mixed responses in the past which have varied between the depot not being interested in carrying out any sort of repair, clearly only wanting to sell a new tyre, right through to a full repair carried out professionally.
With runflats there is no way of checking if the the structure of the reinforced sidewall has been damaged if say you have driven 50 miles, hence need to replace to be on the safe side.

The technology used in tyre gunk has come on a long way, so no harm in asking the tyre garage. Expect they will charge a bit extra, but cheaper than a new tyre. Below gives a bit more info (besides advertising!):

 
Borris

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In our household we've managed 3 punctures in 3 weeks. 2 screws in the tread & one ripped sidewall.

The hassle of getting replacement tyres & of having stressed out daughter / wife at the side of the road with a flat has prompted the following:

One temporary plug set at £3.98 stored along with an electric pump in each car.
A space saver purchased for the UP! at a heady sum of £27 off ebay
The plugged repaired tyre from the Merc has been retained in the garage at home & could be swapped back on by any tyre place if needed.
A full cradle & 17" steel spare fitted to the new van.

Also recommend the Makita 18v tyre pump, can do a Cali 18" wheel from flat to full in about 2 minutes.
If I could fit run flats on the other cars I would.
So it's not just me then!

I do carry one of those DIY tyre plugging kits and a 12v compressor in the boot as insurance, so could in theory, attempt a roadside repair but only as a very last resort. However, it would be a first for me. Anyway, I'd probably end up ruining the tyre! In practice that would only happen in good weather, in day light and parked somewhere safe and only then if I was in a hurry to get somewhere and the red SOS button hadn't promised a prompt attendance. Run flats do have their downsides but at least you can carry on driving at reduced speed for fifty miles. BTW the car doesn't have a tool kit or jack either so any repair would have to take place on the car.
 
andyinluton

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So it's not just me then!
I had to deal with "its stopped hissing so is it ok now?"

No dearest daughter, thats because there's no air left in it.

I also think especially with the prevalence of smart motorways it's sometimes got to be far safer just to keep going irrespective of the consequences to the tyre, rim & surrounding bodywork.
 
K

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Run flats can be repaired safely, Ive had them done a few times. Go to a decent fitter though, Kwik fit and the like won’t do it; unwilling to check the tyre properly, probably partly due to not trusting the customer to be honest about how its been run when under inflated and would much prefer to sell you a new tyre anyway. Limitations on repair area are the same as for a normal tyre but the interior of the tyre needs to be checked properly for damage. But you will know if you’ve run it fast or too far, so can have confidence. Self sealing tyres can be repaired too, another common fallacy.
Michelin UK website will confirm; they limit to a single repair but others allow multiple repairs.
By the way, that’s an awful lot for 4 tyres. I had 4 Michelin Pilot Sport RF fitted 12 mths ago for half that - staggered 255/30R19, 225/35R19. What is Mrs Borris driving?
 
Borris

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Run flats can be repaired safely, Ive had them done a few times. Go to a decent fitter though, Kwik fit and the like won’t do it; unwilling to check the tyre properly, probably partly due to not trusting the customer to be honest about how its been run when under inflated and would much prefer to sell you a new tyre anyway. Limitations on repair area are the same as for a normal tyre but the interior of the tyre needs to be checked properly for damage. But you will know if you’ve run it fast or too far, so can have confidence. Self sealing tyres can be repaired too, another common fallacy.
Michelin UK website will confirm; they limit to a single repair but others allow multiple repairs.
By the way, that’s an awful lot for 4 tyres. I had 4 Michelin Pilot Sport RF fitted 12 mths ago for half that - staggered 255/30R19, 225/35R19. What is Mrs Borris driving?
Thanks for the info. This is Mrs B's actual motor although she's not keen on driving it, but that's beside the point.
20220210_223731.jpg
The fronts are Michelin Pilot Sport 3 Run Flats 245/35 r20 95Y Extra Load.
The rears are Michelin Pilot Sport 3 Run Flats 275/30 r20 97Y Extra Load.

Tbh the £1300 figure was after a quick search. I am sure they can be had for less with a bit more searching. I could go for another make but I'll probably stick with Michelin as they are original fitment and are a quality brand.
 
kurienp

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Thanks for the info. This is Mrs B's actual motor although she's not keen on driving it, but that's beside the point.
View attachment 104372
The fronts are Michelin Pilot Sport 3 Run Flats 245/35 r20 95Y Extra Load.
The rears are Michelin Pilot Sport 3 Run Flats 275/30 r20 97Y Extra Load.

Tbh the £1300 figure was after a quick search. I am sure they can be had for less with a bit more searching. I could go for another make but I'll probably stick with Michelin as they are original fitment and are a quality brand.
All this challenge is because of that 30 and 35 sidewall on those 20 in wheels. Switch over to 17 inch wheels with a 55 or a 60 side profile and all will be well with the suspension and the tyres. (Mrs B may shoot you ... but that is a different problem to deal with then) ;)

Yes, the deplorable state of roads is one part, but then we are the ones who put on 30/r20's and then expect the wheels to absorb all that the road throws at it ... and stay good and balanced? Maybe on the motorways (but even they, in places are bad!).
 
andyinluton

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Thanks for the info. This is Mrs B's actual motor although she's not keen on driving it, but that's beside the point.
View attachment 104372
The fronts are Michelin Pilot Sport 3 Run Flats 245/35 r20 95Y Extra Load.
The rears are Michelin Pilot Sport 3 Run Flats 275/30 r20 97Y Extra Load.

Tbh the £1300 figure was after a quick search. I am sure they can be had for less with a bit more searching. I could go for another make but I'll probably stick with Michelin as they are original fitment and are a quality brand.
I had those exact wheels & sizes on my SLC, but none runflats, last set I bought were £225 each for the rears and about £ 175 for the fronts fitted by tyres on the drive.
Rears were bald at 12,000 miles when I traded it in, they were the second set!
 
Borris

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All this challenge is because of that 30 and 35 sidewall on those 20 in wheels. Switch over to 17 inch wheels with a 55 or a 60 side profile and all will be well with the suspension and the tyres. (Mrs B may shoot you ... but that is a different problem to deal with then) ;)

Yes, the deplorable state of roads is one part, but then we are the ones who put on 30/r20's and then expect the wheels to absorb all that the road throws at it ... and stay good and balanced? Maybe on the motorways (but even they, in places are bad!).
Not really a challenge in the big scheme of things. I priced up the tyres etc before we purchased the car so was aware of the rough costs involved. They will be replaced at a cheaper overall cost, of that I am certain.

My gripe is having to replace all four tyres so soon when they are no where near fully worn. The wheels were attached to the car when we bought it. The only real choice was take it or leave it. Anyway, it was mainly my idea to buy it. Mrs B wasn't that bothered.

Actually, in general, the wheels don't give too bad a ride unless the surface gets rough or pot holes are involved. I'm sure different wheel/tyre combo would improve the ride and possibly durability as well, but that won't stop tyre damage occuring.
 
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Johnny Rocket

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My two-penny-worth:

They are called runflats because they can (within certain pretty narrow limits) be run when flat, but that doesn’t mean that in the process the rim will never be damaged, let alone the sidewall and / or tread overheated and the tyre structure dangerously compromised.
So that’s why they’re NOT called ‘run-again-once-repaired-flats’!
I had some awful things called Dunlop Denovo on an original Mini - terrible things!
Any runflat, including BMW’s recent fare, has to have such ridiculously stiff sidewalls to fulfill the function it is named by, that it becomes first a get-you-home device and its suitability as a comfortably performing tyre is about no. 3 on the design priority list.
All tyres of this type are, by all normal tyre requirements, excessively stiff in the vertical direction, therefore uncomfortable, over-heavy, and worth avoiding if at all possible.

Well-meant counter-rant over ;/\\

PS and if you were to put a decent-size hole in one, damage it at the tread edge, or cut it, then it’s still scrap, just like a regular tyre.
They are a weak apology for rampant oversizing of wheels and tyres for aesthetic appeal, such that a spare won’t fit in the boot anymore . . . a spacesaver's what's needed!
 
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Borris

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I had those exact wheels & sizes on my SLC, but none runflats, last set I bought were £225 each for the rears and about £ 175 for the fronts fitted by tyres on the drive.
Rears were bald at 12,000 miles when I traded it in, they were the second set!
Interesting.
These tyres all still have between 5 and 5.5mm of tread except for the aforementioned toe out inner edge front tyre wear.
 
Borris

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They are simply a weak excuse for the rampant oversizing of wheels and tyres such that a spare won’t fit in the boot anymore.
Not being able to fit in the boot has just as much to do with the width of the wheel, as it does the overall diameter, which would remain more or less the same regardless of the wheel/tyre sizing. Also the car is a convertible so has less available boot space.
 
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