solar panel (removable) on T5 facelift (waiting roof rot work)

[greenfintry]

I have been working with Roger Donoghue at solar camper solution to fit a solar unit to my T5. As it is a 2011 one and has the long wait for the VW roof treatment, I did not want to do anything that would give VW an excuse to walk away from my claim.

The panel is 100w and seems to keep the leisure battery well topped up. I am going to be at Silverstone for the F1 weekend (no electric supply...) and then down at COTF so this should be a good test for the system. It adds no significant height and I have joined the system to the battery under the wardrobe with no drilling etc

 

[tuono001]

I like the idea of this but what cost for the panel? How heavy is it to lift upto the roof, one man fitment?

 

[greenfintry]

The cost is about £400 (there are variations on the meters etc so not quite fixed price). The panel weighs nearly nothing. It is mostly a one man job but `I got my son to hold the panel on one side while I fed it over from the other.. we were both on kitchen steps. The rest is just a 1 man job.... Takes a couple of hours all in. over has an instruction sheet, but its pretty obvious.....only tools are adjustable spanner/socket set and a couple of screw drivers... The weight makes no difference to the roof lift at all... also no whistling noise (my biggest concern).

 

[johnyboy]

£400 is a lot of diesel for recharging the batteries though

 

[greenfintry]

True, but its nice to be quiet when parked up rather than running the engine. Also, it sounds like the leisure batteries will be topped up through the winter without needing to plug in every so often.... A big win for those of us who forget to do this and so may mean the batteries last a whole lot longer too....

 

[johnyboy]

I've only had to run the engine once in the last year on a very hot festival weekend. How much are new leisure batteries?

 

[greenfintry]

Not sure, but £150+ each maybe. I'm not sure that California ownership is based on a cash return basis really... otherwise a cheap tent or hotels would be cheaper. The attraction for me is the extra autonomy and not having to worry about the batteries going down... One excellent aspect is that precisely when the fridge is working hardest, so too is the solar panel..... Nice to leave the van for a days walk and get back for a chilled beer with no worry about the batteries going flat....

 

[Linda]

Excellent! Can't quite tell from the photos though, where is the entry for the cable into the Van?

 

[Meoncoast]

% wise it is not a lot to add to the cost of a Cali If the sun is shining why not use it.

 

[greenfintry]

The cable just tucks in on the outside of the near side rear hinge. I have allowed a loose length of cable that I have marked with insulation tape so as to pull out a length of slack to allow the roof to raise. When bringing the roof down, the slack pushes out, but I would always be on the watch for snagging (hence the roof bungee). Once the roof is down, then the extra length of cable can just be pulled back into the top of the rear wardrobe area shelves.

 

[briwy]

£400 is a hell of a lot for a 100w panel.
Got mine about two years ago and cost £150 then and now around £120 ish. Had it on the old van and now the new one without any problems at all.
It's also worth paying the extra for a genuine MPPT controller. These are at least £50, a lot of cheap ones are advertised as MPPT but aren't.
Our panel the van topped up around 80-90% from a Thursday to Monday morning recently at Le Mans. Fridge and interior/external lights.
Definitely worth it IMO.

 

[greenfintry]

I am sure I could have done it for less, but I was not so confident to go it alone, and also the fabrication of the mount, sizings and general advice is worth a lot. Happy to know it is all fit for purpose and not going to wreck the leisure batteries....

 

[Roger Donoghue]

Solar on camper vans is never about saving money on fuel / pitches / batteries. It's about convenience, and not being tied to electric hook-ups.

Without hook-ups you often get the best spots on camp sites (furthest away from all the noise with the best views! - this is certainly true in France). You also dont' have to worry about looking after your battery as it's done for you , all year round. Even in winter there is plenty of charge to keep your LB topped up when not in use.

Then there is the noise issue of running yoru engine or a generator. Someone once said to me, "pah! my £150 genny won't use enough petrol over the next few years to catch up with the cost of a solar kit". I'd not like to camp anywhere near him :-(

I'm fitting an amazing amount of panels to Bongos, T4s and T5s now. People really value the flexibility of being off grid, and many of my customers come to me after the umpteenth time flattening their leisure battery and having to replace it after repeated flattenings (which kills them in short order).

Of course you can buy a solar panel for £150, and a charger for £70-£90.

I take the panel, desolder the original wires and solder in more appropriate ones (then waterproof seal the box back up), cut and key the rear of the panel, measure up and cut precisely the aluminium angle bars (which you can't buy in small quantities), drill them to the exact dimensions for the T5 Cali roof, line the edges with protective foam, supply the nuts bolts and washers that I've tested to fit, stick the aluminium to the panel with sikaflex which takes 2 days to cure.

Then I add all the cables, waterproof connectors, fuse connector, MPPT charger, step by step instructions, cable ties. And then I take the liability of guaranteeing everything.

That's why I don't charge the cost of the materials.

If you are technically minded I'd always suggest the DIY route, but I supply kits to the vast majority of people who don't want to or don't know how to. I offer a turnkey solution that works, and the reassurance that there is support further down the road (I've sent people free spares/replacement parts well after 12 months has passed, and I'm always available to help with after sales support).

I'd like also to say a big thanks to Greenfintry who was exceptionally helpful with supplying me with dimensions and general requirements so I could make this kit for him.

 

[Bubba Gross]

Well said Roger, I'm getting Cali in a few weeks and will definitely be giving you a call....

 

[tharabas]

Hallo.

I used a similar solution for my second solar panel. The first one is already fixed on the roof....a very big mistake...

I passed the cable, without drilling the roof, through the tube of the rear door near of the right hinge.


Please,sorry for my bad English

 

[tharabas]

There is the photos

 

[tharabas]

There ARE the photos...sorry

 

[estresao]

Interesting.... I think in this way the panel don't get so hot, so it should perform better.

What's the make and model of your panel?

 

[SunnyDays]

This sounds just what I have been looking for. As my van is new and so in warranty I don't want to risk any 'modifications' issues, particularly with the roof, so I really like the idea that it can all be removed if necessary. However, I have a few 'novice' questions:

i) Can I still easily plug into the mains on EHU as normal without any damage, problems or complications?

ii) Does this system charge just the two aux batteries?

iii) I assume the 230v socket by the sink will still only work when on EHU?

iv) It has been mentioned that these type of panels can get very hot. is there enough gap between the panel and the roof so as not to cause any damage to the roof surface itself? I will be travelling to S France where it will inevitably be v sunny and hot.

v) I have read that solar charging does not do a long, complete battery charge, especially if there is a residual discharge (e.g. fridge, phone charging etc) and that this can lead to the the batteries deteriorating over time faster than they ordinarily would. Is this right? If so is it still necessary to do a long (12hr) EHU charge on a regular basis ( I thnk vw recommends once a month) ?

vi) What MPPT unti do you supply. I have read that there is quite a range in quality out there and just want to be sure all is top notch.

vii) also what do you charge to fit it for me?

Thanks in advance for any answers. This system could be the answer to my wild camping energy needs

Sunny

 

[Roger Donoghue]

Hiya,

1) Yep - makes no difference. The solar charger is , at one end, a battery charger, so it will stop charging when the battery reaches it's peak voltage (so when you plug in another charger like on an EHU, the battery will reach peak voltage very quickly). Most vehicles I install solar in have EHU and Split charge relay systems.

2) The system charges whatever battery you plug into it. On the Calis I've worked on before there was only one aux battery? Perhaps two is an option? If you have two then both batteries get charged. It doesn't link to the starter battery - and really doesn't need to - your starter battery should never get low as you use the aux/leisure battery for all the legwork.

3) yep - you are right. To get your 240 sockets working off-grid you need to install an inverter.

4) They do get hot - mostly because they are predominantly black. Putting a black aluminium panel on your roof would generate the same heat. There is no reason your roof should get damaged. They don't get too hot to touch. Just "hot".

5) Solar chargers/regulators are , at the end of the day, a battery charger. The quality of the charge depends on the quality of the charger. The ones I use (MPPT) are of a high quality (I've tried plenty). When VW talk about performing an EHU charge they are recommending this because decent chargers (which your EHU will have) charge a battery and then give it a gentle "float" charge that goes on until you unplug. This float charge is a very low current charge that completely tops up the battery. When you are driving and the alternator is charging the battery, it is a high current "crude" charge that doesn't top off the charge gently.

The MPPT solar charger performs the same type of charge the EHU does - bulk charging followed by a gentle float charge (also known as a maintenance charge). So you get a very good quality charge.

I've not heard anything about poor solar charging, unless it's a poor charger. When you have items drawing current the solar will power them, as well as charge the battery, so long as you are not taking out more than is being put in.

6) The MPPT chargers I use are 2215BN (10 amp version) with remote display. They are high quality chargers (not fake MPPT chargers - which there are many of!)

7) - Fitting - well, the T5 kit that bolts onto your roof rails really , really, doesn't need anyone to fit it - it's that easy. Bolt it on, plug it in, connect two wires to your battery. That's it! When I fit slimline panels with adhesive and permanently install the charger I charge £100 and it takes around 3 hours.

 

[Roger Donoghue]

My panels for the T5 Kit are sourced directly from China through one company I've been using for years called Xiamen Eco Sources.

The brand is kind of irrelivent as the cells used by the panel companies often come from other solar panel companies. It's all down to the quality of construction, which I've been happy with so far. I use these panels as they have the level of rigidity I require.

For panels I stick on, I use back contact panels from the UK (which, are of course, from China), I use those as they are small, neat, and very flexible.

 

[powysjune]

This sounded exactly what we were looking for - many thanks for sharing the information Greenfintry.

I ordered one at the weekend (with the MPPT regulator option), it came within 48 hours and we fitted it yesterday with no problems. It's a quality bit of kit and includes everything you need. Only thing we added was to cut some thin rubber washers to go under the big washers that clamp the panel to the roof rail, for extra protection against scratching. The panel isn't really visible at all from the ground and the wiring is very unobtrusive. We ran the battery cable down by the gas tank into the battery compartment under the wardrobe and attached it to the first leisure battery. Fixed the controller box in the top cupboard behind the wardrobe and stuck the monitor display on the left above the fridge - the cable to the display goes across the top of the wardrobe, tucks in neatly and comes out by the sliding window blind above the fridge. It's now reading 2 amps trickle charge into the battery and it's a cloudy day!

Very pleased with this, excellent service from Roger Donaghue. We didn't have to ask him for advice on fitting but it was offered if we needed it. Too soon yet to report on its performance in keeping the fridge going without hook-up, but we are off to France in a couple of weeks so will be a good test.

 

[MattBW]

True, but its nice to be quiet when parked up rather than running the engine. Also, it sounds like the leisure batteries will be topped up through the winter without needing to plug in every so often.... A big win for those of us who forget to do this and so may mean the batteries last a whole lot longer too....

If you have the right MMPT you can charge two batteries, i.e. keep your vehicle battery or two leisure battery properly charged. I have what looks like the same panel as yours on my T25 and it does both batteries nicely.

 

[Roger Donoghue]

Great to hear you are up and running I'll add rubber washers to the future kits.

Matt - I used to supply dual battery chargers but found them to be problematic in the long term, and also unnescessary. If your leisure battery is corerectly connected to all of your appliances and internal lighting, then there is no reason for the starter battery to ever go flat - it just doesn't get used, other than for starting the vehicle.

With PWM dual battery chargers I found that they often set off the vehicle's alarm. I've not found a good value source of genuine MPPT dual battery chargers yet that wouldn't drive the cost of the kits up significantly - and add significant hassle to the installation process.

 

[Gavinskii]

Roger, just a thought, but as you are in the West Country and about 100 Californias will be descending on North Somerset for the Cali's at The Farm Event in 2 weeks, what about doing a special bulk buy option for who knows...... 10 kits? ....These could be delivered to the campsite and then will create a little distraction/challenge for owners to fit them (with support from others) over the weekend?