STOLEN

[Digger]

A 6 inch spike concealed in the seat base and activated by remote when stolen would be my preference.
(sorry been watching Dads Army and Corp Jones)

 

[Skewif]

"M'Lord- you are right, I did not know it was in the outside lane on the motorway. All I knew is that it was stationary, had been taken without my consent and was therefore in the possession of an uninsured driver. I took what I reasonably believed to be a prudent action and disabled it when stationary to prevent the uninsured driver from continuing to pose a risk to himself and others."


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Sorry but I do find this a rather silly argument. Why go to all the effort of fitting a tracker wired into the blue motion starter circuits that can illegally remotely disable your van which then can potentially cause mayhem and death when there are much better ways to prevent the theft in the first place. Prevention must be far better than a life threatening (ego satisfying) cure? Surely we all just want to find our beloved where we left it rather than risk it being remotely rear ended/written off and a potential prosecution? I have nothing to do with Ghost immobilisers but they are without doubt the best defence if you are lucky enough to have a drive to park your very expensive van in front of your home and a hallway table on which to leave the keys.

 

[soulstyledevon]

5 vehicles stolen from my road in the last 3 weeks.
Houses broken into at night. The only thing taken were the car keys. One guy had both vehicles taken.
Sorry, you have to defend yourself anyway possible...!!!

 

[Skewif]

I love how the worst possible (will probably never happen) scenarios appear.
But most lightly, your disturbed in the night. You see your vehicle drive away and 20s later it’s disabled at the top of your road.

For me, it’s a great idea. More than worth the risk.
Going to look into it ASAP...

But what if you don’t hear it go? Parts will be on fleabay or in a container abroad before you wake. Best to prevent.

 

[Skewif]

5 vehicles stolen from my road in the last 3 weeks.
Houses broken into at night. The only thing taken were the car keys. One guy had both vehicles taken.
Sorry, you have to defend yourself anyway possible...!!!

Ghost Immobiliser.

 

[soulstyledevon]

Ghost Immobiliser.

I’m not saying no.
But many years ago I had a Peugeot 306tdi that had an early code combination immobiliser.
It was a massive PITA. Stall, code required. Every time you got in the bloody thing. Code.

Few years later the key immobiliser was invented. I wonder why.
The ghost immobiliser sounds very similar

 

[Skewif]

I’m not saying no.
But many years ago I had a Peugeot 306tdi that had an early code combination immobiliser.
It was a massive PITA. Stall, code required. Every time you got in the bloody thing. Code.

Few years later the key immobiliser was invented. I wonder why.
The ghost immobiliser sounds very similar

I remember a French hire car with a keypad in the centre console to make it start. A PITA it was indeed. On my last car I had the ghost fitted and found the simple combination of steering wheel keys totally automatic after a week. Benefits IMO far outweighed the second or two it takes to disarm. There is always a phone app that does it all for you just so long as you don’t leave your mobile on the hall table next to the keys.

 

[Amarillo]

there are much better ways to prevent the theft in the first place. Prevention must be far better

Swivelling the driver's seat then putting on the handbrake, reclining the back and pushing the seat backwards always seems like a good first line of defence. Even if the buggers have your keys there must be a very good chance they will not be able to swivel the seat back.


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[soulstyledevon]

The big plus with the engine kill is, it’s there and doesn’t intrude with the everyday useage of the vehicle.
Unfortunately all the other stuff does, same as handbrake locks and steering locks etc etc.

Sorry, but the tracker with engine kill activation is by far the best compromise. Hopefully it will never be needed, but just in case it’s good to have. As said, if you can activate on stop/start function, you at least know the vehicle has stopped.
I’ve had that activate at the end of my drive, so sounds like a perfect solution.

 

[Skewif]

Swivelling the driver's seat then putting on the handbrake, reclining the back and pushing the seat backwards always seems like a good first line of defence. Even if the buggers have your keys there must be a very good chance they will not be able to swivel the seat back.


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No terribly convenient for you though. Just going to nip down the shop to get some milk honey.........

 

[Amarillo]

No terribly convenient for you though. Just going to nip down the shop to get some milk honey.........
View attachment 33479

I'll take the Brompton. Who'd drive a campervan 500m for a pint of milk?

Anyway - swivelling the front seat is far less laborious than opening a garage door, driving out, then re-closing the garage door. And that includes a vulnerable time with your unattended California, its engine running and keys in the ignition.


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[Skewif]

The big plus with the engine kill is, it’s there and doesn’t intrude with the everyday useage of the vehicle.
Unfortunately all the other stuff does, same as handbrake locks and steering locks etc etc.

Sorry, but the tracker with engine kill activation is by far the best compromise. Hopefully it will never be needed, but just in case it’s good to have. As said, if you can activate on stop/start function, you at least know the vehicle has stopped.
I’ve had that activate at the end of my drive, so sounds like a perfect solution.

Glad that that works for you but feel it’s a somewhat flawed system. What if you don’t hear the text? What if they took your phone too? What if the start stop doesn’t kick in? Better hope it’s not cold, sure I read here that turning the heated seats on disables the SS function?? What if you’re carjacked and your phone is on the dash? What if you kill it, they jump out and it rolls down a hill causing untold damage? Etc etc. Oh and getting texts every time you set off is a tad bit irritating. Oh and every time you get a late night text you’ll sing yourself!
It’s a nice idea getting revenge on the person driving away in your lovely van. But wouldn’t having an effortless method of preventing your van being driven away in the first place be far better protection?
Just for the record. I don’t have any extra security fitted even though parked on the street. I never worry about it, life is too short. If I had a drive I’d have a Ghost fitted and leave the key on the hall table where I want it.

 

[Loz]

Each to his own!

Amen...

 

[Skewif]

I'll take the Brompton. Who'd drive a campervan 500m for a pint of milk?

Anyway - swivelling the front seat is far less laborious than opening a garage door, driving out, then re-closing the garage door. And that includes a vulnerable time with your unattended California, its engine running and keys in the ignition.


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Kind of risky only swivelling the one seat. There could be some dodgy master seat swivelers out there. Best take a couple of wheels off just in case.

 

[Velma's Dad]

Personally I'd much rather have a conventional key ignition.

Me too, I really really can't see any benefit of keyless ignition. It seems to me a Dancing Baloney, dreamt up without any reference to the ways that real people behave in the real world.

I bet if all cars had always had only keyless from the start, someone would then come up with the brilliant idea of having to insert it into a special slot in the dashboard... and then you can just turn it through 90 degrees to start the engine! Resolving at a stroke all the practical problems that Borris described.

 

[Stoneybroke]

There are several comments that a remotely operated immobiliser or kill switch is illegal, but no reference to under what laws this is the case.

Any suggestions?

The only possibility I have found is S22A 1(b) of the Road Traffic Act
“22ACausing danger to road-users.
(1)A person is guilty of an offence if he intentionally and without lawful authority or reasonable cause—
(b)interferes with a motor vehicle, trailer or cycle
in such circumstances that it would be obvious to a reasonable person that to do so would be dangerous.

Which could fit as the remote immobiliser use could be held as interfering with the vehicle - although the intent was around duricut brake pipes, contaminating fuel, etc. There is, however, a clear defence of '''reasonable cause" which would fit to prevent theft of a high value vehicle, though it would be better if you you had some awareness of the speed and location of the vehicle.

There is also plenty of provision to protect people for acts that are taken to prevent a crime or the loss of property, so there may also be Lawful Authority to disable the vehicle.

The police use Stingers and the like, to deflate tyres in a controlled way, but it is pretty random which tyres go, and how quickly, not to mention the driver's response. They rely on the same laws around reasonable force that any of us could to stop a crime, defend ourselves or prevent loss of property - there is no law about police use of Stingers (just a lot of policy and procedure - including Health and Safety responsibilities to everyone).

Given the choice between a pursuit, deployment of Stinger or other controlled stopping methods using cars, then the remote kill switch is the safest option, and if combined with either a direct line of sight as they drive away from your house, or GPS tracking and control about maximum speed the kill switch could activate, it would be the answer to many a police officer's conundrum off being ''called off' a pursuit.

 

[MattBW]

Interesting
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...iss-payment-lenders-poor-credit-a7842646.html

 

[Skewif]

Each to his own!

Amen...

Respectfully... you don’t have to read this thread. To someone considering better security this only slightly protracted and mostly cordial discussion (of me. Lol) mining the pros and cons of various people’s ideas could be helpful. Maybe I’m wrong but thought that’s what a forum is for. Sorry if I offend.

 

[Skewif]

Interesting
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...iss-payment-lenders-poor-credit-a7842646.html

Indeed. I did read about their use. To comply with the law the company / car has to give adequate warning of impending Immobilisation and only make it happen when parked up.

 

[soulstyledevon]

Interesting
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...iss-payment-lenders-poor-credit-a7842646.html

So reading into that report. Perfectly legal for a finance company to remotely kill a vehicle.
I’m sure, and from reading the article it’s a drastic measure they will take after a few missed payments.
Personally, I think it’s a fair system.

 

[Loz]

Respectfully... you don’t have to read this thread. To someone considering better security this only slightly protracted and mostly cordial discussion (of me. Lol) mining the pros and cons of various people’s ideas could be helpful. Maybe I’m wrong but thought that’s what a forum is for. Sorry if I offend.

yes, and has been discussed may times, what I object to is the protracted ramming of opinions down others throats in some attempt to change their mind over and above education.
This what happens on forums, hence "Each to their own"

[None taken] {Roger and out}

 

[soulstyledevon]

Respectfully... you don’t have to read this thread. To someone considering better security this only slightly protracted and mostly cordial discussion (of me. Lol) mining the pros and cons of various people’s ideas could be helpful. Maybe I’m wrong but thought that’s what a forum is for. Sorry if I offend.

We can’t all get on and agree all the time.
Otherwise, it would be a darn boring world and a pretty sterile forum.

 

[Velma's Dad]

So reading into that report. Perfectly legal for a finance company to remotely kill a vehicle.
I’m sure, and from reading the article it’s a drastic measure they will take after a few missed payments.
Personally, I think it’s a fair system.

Actually, to be pedantic, I don't think that's what the article is saying, as they are questioning whether those measures will end up being judged as lawful in terms of data protection and finance laws, at least.

But anyway, I'd make a guess (but only a guess) that the finance company's 'kill box' only disables the starter, so the issue of a sudden engine cut-out on (eg) a motorway wouldn't arise.

Stoneybroke's post is I think very important here. In statutory terms, something is only 'illegal' if it breaks a law. In this case "without reasonable cause" would be the hinge: it would be for a court to decide whether 'killing' a stolen car was reasonable - quite possibly it would take that view.

However another, separate, issue is civil liability. If my car was stolen and I remotely 'killed' it, causing it to have a collision with an innocent third party who was thereby injured, presumably there is scope for litigation. For that reason I'd wonder what position the insurers would take on fitting such a device.

 

[Leigh-R]

what happened? did insurance pay out? did you hear any news from the cops?

Hi flying banana,
Thanks for asking how we’re getting on.
The police have reported no sightings of Trev on ANPR in the uk to date, we have video of the driver and passenger and the police are still looking in to that.

Insurance was through Safeguard (underwritten by Allianz) is all sorted now, the process wasn’t a nice experience with probing questions and lengthy periods no contact but all sorted now, we agreed on a market value for Trev & received the max for the contents.

We are currently looking for a new ish replacement but it’s the wrong time to buy,
We’re after a 204,dsg,led in white or gray next.

I think my lessons learned for next time are security posts on the drive, steering lock, wheel clamp, tracker & have no keys for the van in your house keep the spare at work in a key safe or with a trusted friend. I’m not saying where the main key is going..

 

[flying banana]

nice 1. I use a steering lock and hide my keys in the house. ie not on the key rack. even with a steering lock and security post if the scum is in your house I suppose they can get the keys for those too. I think you would be unlucky to be done twice. you're right about the wrong time to buy but even so I have seen some nice examples on auto trader. you just have to travel to do the viewings.