Thinking of buying - Weight question

[potem]

Hello all .I'm new on here so this is my first post. I am hoping to be persuaded that the Cali life is for me.
I have spent the last few days convincing myself that having missed out on a gap year before uni I should have one after retirement. The classic way of doing this is, of course, to load up an old VW micro-bus and disappear off to the sunset. I'm a bit old to risk being in the middle of nowhere with an unreliable old van so am considering cheating and buying a new T6. Which brings me to the next bit : "load up".The van would also be used by my children and their children.
I was considering a 204 PS OCEAN 4-MOTION. Payload without driver is 405kg.
4 adults (320kg) a full tank of water (30kg) 4 bikes (60kg) and a bike rack seems to put you over the limit even if the occupants were admirers of The Naked Rambler and did not want to eat or have a nice cool beer from the handy fridge! Am I missing something?
Is this the reason for the privacy glass (police can't see how many are on board!)?
Europe is full of fully laden campers going on holiday in their vans with their bikes, drive away awnings cooking stuff etc. Do the police just turn a blind eye?
Or are my calculations just wrong?
EDIT : If I am right then I would be overweight with the optional 5th seat, 5 adults, no gas and no clobber. Is it possible to change the suspension to increase the maximum load?

 

[AlanC]

I think the answer to your police question is yes.

The police are more concerned with over weight commercial vehicles than private ones.

I think they would only check the weight if they were suspicious, once they had stopped you for another offence. Then you would have to be escorted to a weighbridge to be checked.

I think we were over weight this year, but had no problems in France or Spain.

I wouldn't worry.

Alan

 

[motacyclist]

Hello all .I'm new on here so this is my first post. I am hoping to be persuaded that the Cali life is for me.
I have spent the last few days convincing myself that having missed out on a gap year before uni I should have one after retirement. The classic way of doing this is, of course, to load up an old VW micro-bus and disappear off to the sunset. I'm a bit old to risk being in the middle of nowhere with an unreliable old van so am considering cheating and buying a new T6. Which brings me to the next bit : "load up".The van would also be used by my children and their children.
I was considering a 204 PS OCEAN 4-MOTION. Payload without driver is 405kg.
4 adults (320kg) a full tank of water (30kg) 4 bikes (60kg) and a bike rack seems to put you over the limit even if the occupants were admirers of The Naked Rambler and did not want to eat or have a nice cool beer from the handy fridge! Am I missing something?
Is this the reason for the privacy glass (police can't see how many are on board!)?
Europe is full of fully laden campers going on holiday in their vans with their bikes, drive away awnings cooking stuff etc. Do the police just turn a blind eye?
Or are my calculations just wrong?
EDIT : If I am right then I would be overweight with the optional 5th seat, 5 adults, no gas and no clobber. Is it possible to change the suspension to increase the maximum load?

The options to increase the payload would be to delete the 4Motion, and/or the 204 (and/or the DSG if you were thinking of that) as all these things increase the weight.

Alternatively I believe you can have the springs uprated, have a search on this forum and elsewhere for details. Or you could go camping alone! Good luck

 

[potem]

Many thanks for the responses. When my son-in-law was trying to persuade me to buy a lighter bike (to save 5kg) to make the hills easier I went on a diet and lost 13 kilos which had a better effect and saved me food bills into the bargain. Maybe I should look for anorexic travelling companions who hate cycling.
121 views and only 2 replies. I have just come across a similar post to mine on a t6 thread which was just plain ignored. Maybe its a case of 'The love of overweight cali's. The love that dare not speak its name'
As to my alternatives : I don't want a 'feel the freedom' vehicle which has to be careful where it puts its feet and I am still recovering from 20 years of driving underpowered horseboxes which has left me with an irrational fear of driving up steep hills.
Which leaves me with "b*gger the rest of the family" or a t5. A rant is welling up inside me.........
I find it incredible that VW get away with marketing a vehicle where their top of the range has an effective payload with two people (after common factory fitted extras) of under 200kg. If they make use of the 4 berths it is less than a few bottles of beer to put in the fridge. (mabe the picture of one slim woman in the car shown on the website is telling us something!) That puts most buyers unaware they are at risk of invalidating their insurance, risking bankruptcy if they have an accident. I doubt if their salesmen are trained to point out the risks. Only commercial considerations could be preventing them from altering the configuration to get the payload up by 400kg or so. End of rant.
I hope to be in a position to buy in mid December. If anyone out there has a 180 four motion with diff lock please get in touch.

 

[motacyclist]

Which leaves me with "b*gger the rest of the family" or a t5. A rant is welling up inside me.........
I find it incredible that VW get away with marketing a vehicle where their top of the range has an effective payload with two people (after common factory fitted extras) of under 200kg.

I'm not too sure if the T5 is any better with regards to payload, without poring over the specs (and this is possibly why there has not been many replies to your post, the manual is extremely difficult reading).

There is a hell of a lot of weighty stuff inside an Ocean/SE, despite the vaunted aluminium sandwich panels. Try and lift out the rear "parcel shelf", particularly the original chipboard one! There are electric motors in the sliding door, the rear tailgate, the roof etc. So - it might be worth considering a Beach which dispenses with some of this electrickery and is possibly closer to the original VW camper van concept which didn't have all these refinements.

VW are not alone in this slim payload stuff either, check out the specs on some of the coach built motorhomes!

BTW there is a recent thread on the diff lock which you may find worth reading.

Colin

 

[Borris]

Is it possible to change the suspension to increase the maximum load?[/QUOTE]
I recently asked this question to the VW dealer who supplied our Cali, after discovering this same issue. They said that they had never been asked this before and were unable to give me an answer at that time. I am starting to wonder if this is "an elephant in the room"!

Using your payload figure, the T6 seems to have lost 41 kgs of its useful payload against the standard T5 180dsg 4motion!

 

[potem]

I'm not too sure if the T5 is any better with regards to payload, without poring over the specs (and this is possibly why there has not been many replies to your post, the manual is extremely difficult reading).

There is a hell of a lot of weighty stuff inside an Ocean/SE, despite the vaunted aluminium sandwich panels. Try and lift out the rear "parcel shelf", particularly the original chipboard one! There are electric motors in the sliding door, the rear tailgate, the roof etc. So - it might be worth considering a Beach which dispenses with some of this electrickery and is possibly closer to the original VW camper van concept which didn't have all these refinements.

VW are not alone in this slim payload stuff either, check out the specs on some of the coach built motorhomes!

BTW there is a recent thread on the diff lock which you may find worth reading.

Colin

Thanks for the idea. I need food and water, but there may be ways with the beach. I seriously do not need all the electrics and all dancing bits and pieces (I owned several Rovers so can write the book on what happens when the electrics break down!). My only concern about the diff lock is that it is electric. (I have read the thread). The electric pop-up roof, for instance, is all well and good, but when it breaks down in East Hungary and I have my grandchildren on board there is no manual back-up.I doubt they would want to share my bed until it is fixed! The Beach is probably simpler and more to my taste as well as lighter. My problem is probably that I want it both ways. I like the insulation, dining facilities, and better 'feel' of the SE and Ocean but want to be able to carry more than one pair of socks.
The SE has an extra 55kg or so payload. Edit : I will accept Boris's figure of 41kg. That is still 3 big bags of dog food's worth of clobber.

 

[potem]

Is it possible to change the suspension to increase the maximum load?

I recently asked this question to the VW dealer who supplied our Cali after discovering this same issue. They said that they had never been asked this before and were unable to give me an answer at that time. I am starting to wonder if this is "an elephant in the room"![/QUOTE]

 

[potem]

I for one think it will come back to bite them if there is a nasty well publicised accident involving an overweight VW carrying not much more than the passengers. If you get an answer can you post it, because if it is possible it would avoid all this.

 

[craig j]

There is an alternative which is to fit T32 spec springs, spring assistors or air suspension to a California and with the help of a company called svtech have the gvw and axle weights updated. This is possible up to 3200kg giving an extra 200kg load capacity. You can also get them to update by 100kg with no changes to the California.

 

[potem]

There is an alternative which is to fit T32 spec springs, spring assistors or air suspension to a California and with the help of a company called svtech have the gvw and axle weights updated. This is possible up to 3200kg giving an extra 200kg load capacity. You can also get them to update by 100kg with no changes to the California.

Many Thanks. I will check them out. I have also got someone checking with VW direct. If I get a reply I will post the result. One thing which was mentioned to me is that such modifications might make insurance more difficult. Might also invalidate the warranty hence my waiting for VW to respond.
Why is life so difficult?!

 

[Looby]

I can't find anything showing t6 cali vehicle weights so can't help there but here is the page from the t5 Cali brochure and it clearly shows that the gross vehicle weight of the 4 motion is 80kg more than standard versions. It also states at the bottom of the page that 75kg is already included for driver and a 90% fuel load when calculating payload. The 5th seat isn't an option on the t5 Cali 4motion SE.

 

[mikeringrose]

A friend of mine has just returned from a month long trip in a camper around Europe. Some EU countries are getting very interested in over weight campers. Germany in particular is checking vans at motorway toll points. Fines are substantial. My mate is about to change his van for one with a bigger payload as a result of a big fine. His original plan was to leave the Mrs at home.

 

[potem]

I just came across this thread which seems to give a possibility, but at over £4k it seems a bit over-kill for me. It does show their may be options approved by VW though.
http://vwcaliforniaclub.com/threads/vb-air-suspension-good.6250/

 

[potem]

I can't find anything showing t6 cali vehicle weights so can't help there but here is the page from the t5 Cali brochure and it clearly shows that the gross vehicle weight of the 4 motion is 80kg more than standard versions. It also states at the bottom of the page that 75kg is already included for driver and a 90% fuel load when calculating payload. The 5th seat isn't an option on the t5 Cali 4motion SE.

View attachment 10716

The weights for the t6 are stated to be with a full tank of fuel but with no passengers (ie no driver either) I think there used to be an EU rule that they had to include a driver, but that seems to have gone (presumably to satisfy those customers who intend to use the vehicle without a driver, or a very anorexic one). A tank of water takes up another 30kg.
EDIT : Here is a link to the data sheet. The bit about not including any people seems to have disappeared during the course of today, but I had it confirmed by a dealer.
https://www.volkswagen-vans.co.uk/media/2446619/1500910_t6_california_datasheet_and_price_list.pdf

 

[Angus Morgan]

There is an alternative which is to fit T32 spec springs, spring assistors or air suspension to a California and with the help of a company called svtech have the gvw and axle weights updated. This is possible up to 3200kg giving an extra 200kg load capacity. You can also get them to update by 100kg with no changes to the California.

Why isn't this standard?!?! Especially if you can update by 100kg with no physical modifications!

 

[potem]

Sorry. here is the link giving weights and what is included.

https://www.volkswagen-vans.co.uk/range/camper-vans-t6/california-ocean/specification

 

[potem]

Why isn't this standard?!?! Especially if you can update by 100kg with no physical modifications!

This may not be as simple as it seems.
http://www.wildcamping.co.uk/forums.../45707-sv-tech-weight-change-word-advice.html

 

[Looby]

I see what you mean about the big drop from the T5 weight allowances.

 

[larrylamb]

I see what you mean about the big drop from the T5 weight allowances.

View attachment 10721

hhmmm yes, my 140 T5 payload is 524kg, 62kg more than the T6 150 engine.

 

[vmaxkiddy]

Mass in service quoted on the log book is supplied by VW, and includes 90% fuel and a 68 kg driver with 7 kg of luggage, spare wheel and tools, and factory fitted options. As it is a motor caravan on the log book the M.I.S also includes full water load and gas bottles at 90% contents. That is according to European Directive 95/48/EC
M.I.S for my 2012 180 manual, with factory fitted tow bar is 2439 kg, with a revenue weight of 3000 kg. Allowing 561 kg for the payload. Another 8 litres of diesel to fill the tank weighs approx 7 kg which leaves 554 kg, three passengers + 225 kg leaves 329 kg for all the beer . If towing a max nose weight of 100kg comes off that beer load
That's how I understand it anyway.

 

[Bellesca]

We have a 2015 4 motion dsg
The payload is 446kg which includes a full tank of fuel. As we don't have a trailer or roof load, we can add an extra 150kg to our payload (according to Vw brochure). Thankfully there are just the two of us and we still have plenty of room to replenish our wine cellar. For a fully laden van with 4 people, luggage and bikes, you are getting really close to the limit.

 

[GrannyJen]

After packing my wine and wardrobe I got so close to MPTLM in my van I had to leave a pair of shoes behind

 

[potem]

After packing my wine and wardrobe I got so close to MPTLM in my van I had to leave a pair of shoes behind

(A woman after my own heart! )
That is what is bothering me. With a weight differential between the t5 and t6 of over 42kg (the weight of your wine cooler when full) I would be faced with the necessity of sacrificing all my clothes. With naked grandchildren on board as well I might end up having to borrow a handkerchief for decency when taken to court by police who didn't understand the weight problem. Or I could hop between gas stations with a 10% tank and no water. But not able to take the wine.............

 

[andyinluton]

We have a 2015 4 motion dsg
The payload is 446kg which includes a full tank of fuel. As we don't have a trailer or roof load, we can add an extra 150kg to our payload (according to Vw brochure). Thankfully there are just the two of us and we still have plenty of room to replenish our wine cellar. For a fully laden van with 4 people, luggage and bikes, you are getting really close to the limit.

I dont understand this how not having a trailer or roof box can increase the payload.
If the total payload is 446kg & you tow a trailer the noseweight of it comes off your payload, any roof load also comes out of the payload, so 100kg noseweight trailer & 50kg roof box would leave you with 296kg payload.

I also am amazed that anyone can get near the payload limits, ok so ours is a 140 manual SE I totted up all we put in it in the summer, 6 people, 2x 5th seat, luggage - 6 small suitcases, CADAC etc etc & didnt come anywhere near the limit.

If you take your example youve got 446kg to play with, driver + 1 passenger comes out of that say 120kg, the 10% of fuel not allowed within MIRO so 7KG a tiny amount for the gas, say 25KG for food etc 25KG for pots & pans and lets be generous with the clothes 50KG each twice what you would take on a plane lets round up all the figures say 230kg that still leaves 216kg for other bits & pieces.

If youve got more people on board you have less room for luggage so the limit is how much stuff you can physically fit in.