Trade in value

[steve_b]

"don't want to wait until they can afford..."?

 

[Borris]

Oh Borris, you say tomato, I say potato.

I thought in the context of the sentence it read ok - getting a higher end product than you can "afford".

Either way go Team Beach.

Don't get me wrong, I don't disagree with anything you have said. I was merely highlighting the difference in generational attitude to finance which I believe was your point.

 

[oliver100]

Does the same not apply to housing, should people wait until they can afford the full sum rather than finance?

 

[soulstyledevon]

Does the same not apply to housing, should people wait until they can afford the full sum rather than finance?

Houses are appreciating assets...

 

[Borris]

Does the same not apply to housing, should people wait until they can afford the full sum rather than finance?

No.

 

[oliver100]

So, effectively buying a Vw California brand new using any method is a stupid idea then.

 

[Big Ron]

So, effectively buying a Vw California brand new using any method is a stupid idea then.

Mmmmm I think the prices have risen very steeply, and maybe facilitated by cheap int rates/long term finance but.....the honest answer is probably Yes isn’t it?

I feel very silly now

 

[steve_b]

A valid point - has the facility of cheap finance in effect encouraged / enabled / created the massive price rises - to the point that they are not really affordable without the cheap finance.

I don't know what the breakdown is but I wouldn't be surprised if "VW finance" or whatever that arm of the company is called is at least a profitable as the bit that does the boring part of making the vehicles. A kind of self-stacking deck of cards

 

[oliver100]

I agree is some ways, although in most peoples defence the California has historically been one of the slowest depreciating cars you can buy today, if this trend does not continue it wont matter if you paid for it with gold bars from your personal safe or are financed up to the teeth as we will all be in for a shafting. Though some purchasing methods would allow for you to walk away albeit with a bitter taste in your mouth.

Its the lower end of the market where I don't understand PCP as personal loans are often a much better instrument (if you cant afford it, as has been pointed out several times)

 

[reserves]

Does the same not apply to housing, should people wait until they can afford the full sum rather than finance?

Not the same thing.

 

[oliver100]

Not the same thing.

True, you can’t drive a house

 

[larrylamb]

I've created a poll out of curiosity, to see how many people buy a Cali with cash/savings etc. or through some form of finance.
Let's see how many waited until they had the funds required to buy or who bought , (like myself )with some finance to get their Cali at that point in their life

 

[GrannyJen]

So, effectively buying a Vw California brand new using any method is a stupid idea then.

Why?

I paid full price less about 8% dealer discount just over 2.5 years ago.

Since then I have used it for 185 nights, most of those nights would have been trips which would have otherwise necessitated hotels. I have also saved on dog-sitters, been able to eat in rather than eat out and when not using it as a camper then it has replaced a second car.

Hotel savings alone have been around £15k, I have had the fun, the benefit of spontaneity, the flexibility, and judging by current second hand prices for similar specs I would lose around £20k in depreciation.

The 2nd car that was replaced by my first California in 2013 was traded in at around 2 years old and had depreciated by £20k, saved me nothing in hotels etc and no matter how I tried I could not get a comfortable nights sleep in it

 

[clarinetbcn]

Houses are appreciating assets...

Except when they're not, re: 2009 and massive upside down mortgages

 

[oliver100]

Why?

I paid full price less about 8% dealer discount just over 2.5 years ago.

Since then I have used it for 185 nights, most of those nights would have been trips which would have otherwise necessitated hotels. I have also saved on dog-sitters, been able to eat in rather than eat out and when not using it as a camper then it has replaced a second car.

Hotel savings alone have been around £15k, I have had the fun, the benefit of spontaneity, the flexibility, and judging by current second hand prices for similar specs I would lose around £20k in depreciation.

The 2nd car that was replaced by my first California in 2013 was traded in at around 2 years old and had depreciated by £20k, saved me nothing in hotels etc and no matter how I tried I could not get a comfortable nights sleep in it

I was playing devils advocate in that post in relation to earlier posts. Simple fact is different purchasing approaches can make complete sense depending on your situation. I could have sold an asset to fully cover the payment for my van but was happier using a finance route for several reasons and from my calculations the route I took is the cheapest way to do it without paying in full with the only other consideration being HP with a 50% plus deposit but again at this point I didn't want to commit that much cash.

Personally I want a van whilst my children are still young enough (currently 5 and 2) to enjoy it and 30k + for a van approaching or over 100k just didn't make sense for us as we will use this vehicle as a daily as well as rack up many miles using it for racing and holidays.

 

[oliver100]

Except when they're not, re: 2009 and massive upside down mortgages

between 2009 and 2016 my house at the time reduced by around 10k but my car increased by around 30k! This is obviously not normal as the housing situation was unique and my car is also but it goes to show nothing it set in stone.

 

[clarinetbcn]

using it for racing.

And I thought I knew everything you could do with a California!

 

[Camperfamily]

I was playing devils advocate in that post in relation to earlier posts. Simple fact is different purchasing approaches can make complete sense depending on your situation. I could have sold an asset to fully cover the payment for my van but was happier using a finance route for several reasons and from my calculations the route I took is the cheapest way to do it without paying in full with the only other consideration being HP with a 50% plus deposit but again at this point I didn't want to commit that much cash.

Personally I want a van whilst my children are still young enough (currently 5 and 2) to enjoy it and 30k + for a van approaching or over 100k just didn't make sense for us as we will use this vehicle as a daily as well as rack up many miles using it for racing and holidays.

It also depends on the vehicle. Although I could have bought outright and generally would never have considered PCP/ finance otherwise, I leased our BMW i3 as I didn’t want to take the financial risk of longer timer EV ownership and market supply/ demand/ evolution of EVs. At the end of the period, I simply ‘hand it back’. I could have picked a cheaper, more ‘market predictable’ car, but then I wouldn’t have had the fun that I’ve had from the BMW i3.

 

[Camperfamily]

It also depends on the vehicle. Although I could have bought outright and generally would never have considered PCP/ finance otherwise, I leased our BMW i3 as I didn’t want to take the financial risk of longer timer EV ownership and market supply/ demand/ evolution of EVs. At the end of the period, I simply ‘hand it back’. I could have picked a cheaper, more ‘market predictable’ car, but then I wouldn’t have had the fun that I’ve had from the BMW i3.

I should add that I found a really good lease deal which has cost me considerably less than corresponding depreciation and saved me the hassle of finding a buyer for a relatively niche car (but without the fan/ buyer base you get with Calis)

 

[andyinluton]

The cali historically has been one of the few vehicles that would be a sensible buy on finance. The yearly price rises seem to have been far higher than the interest rates charged on finance.

On most car purchases the monthly payments just about keep up with the depreciation of the car if you are lucky, & by the time the car is paid for you are lucky if its worth more than a few £k that you can use as the deposit on the next one.

On the other hand, buy a competitively priced T5.1 in 2014 when it was new, pay for it over 5 years & you've still got something worth £35k at the end & a van that doesn't look old and has years of life left in it.
In those 5 years the finance on the van is no different to what you could have spent on a boring rep mobile, & you've had five years of enjoyment. This is particularly important when you've got kids, they don't want to wait 5 years before you go camping.


As for house prices going down it really only matters at the moment you actually sell it, & then really only if you are downsizing. If you are moving up, the house you are buying will be cheaper. If you hadn't bought you would be paying rent & that would be money straight down the drain.

 

[soulstyledevon]

between 2009 and 2016 my house at the time reduced by around 10k but my car increased by around 30k! This is obviously not normal as the housing situation was unique and my car is also but it goes to show nothing it set in stone.

That sounds unlucky.
Between 2006 - 2018 my house rose in value about 120%...

 

[Big Ron]

Why?

I paid full price less about 8% dealer discount just over 2.5 years ago.

Since then I have used it for 185 nights, most of those nights would have been trips which would have otherwise necessitated hotels. I have also saved on dog-sitters, been able to eat in rather than eat out and when not using it as a camper then it has replaced a second car.

Hotel savings alone have been around £15k, I have had the fun, the benefit of spontaneity, the flexibility, and judging by current second hand prices for similar specs I would lose around £20k in depreciation.

The 2nd car that was replaced by my first California in 2013 was traded in at around 2 years old and had depreciated by £20k, saved me nothing in hotels etc and no matter how I tried I could not get a comfortable nights sleep in it

Well said Granny Jen. I’ve changed my mind, I feel very clever and smug now


(Actually, do still feel a little bit silly)

 

[oliver100]

The cali historically has been one of the few vehicles that would be a sensible buy on finance. The yearly price rises seem to have been far higher than the interest rates charged on finance.

On most car purchases the monthly payments just about keep up with the depreciation of the car if you are lucky, & by the time the car is paid for you are lucky if its worth more than a few £k that you can use as the deposit on the next one.

On the other hand, buy a competitively priced T5.1 in 2014 when it was new, pay for it over 5 years & you've still got something worth £35k at the end & a van that doesn't look old and has years of life left in it.
In those 5 years the finance on the van is no different to what you could have spent on a boring rep mobile, & you've had five years of enjoyment. This is particularly important when you've got kids, they don't want to wait 5 years before you go camping.


As for house prices going down it really only matters at the moment you actually sell it, & then really only if you are downsizing. If you are moving up, the house you are buying will be cheaper. If you hadn't bought you would be paying rent & that would be money straight down the drain.

On the housing thing in my situation I needed to sell at the time but in the end we couldn't swallow the loss (it worked out we would have been better off renting at that point!) so we rented the house out ourselves and then proceeded to beg borrow and steal to generate the deposit for our next house. After 6 years the market had levelled out and we sold it, only making about 25p profit but at least is wasn't a loss and we made a bit of profit through renting it. Probably more luck than judgement in that situation though!

 

[OGII]

So, effectively buying a Vw California brand new using any method is a stupid idea then.

This is the perennial buying a new vehicle is a waste of money argument, better to wait 6 months or buy a demonstrator when depreciation has taken its toll.

For most rep mobiles and fairly regular/similar cars it's true.

As others have said so eloquently a camper is an emotive purchase, a user's needs /options can be very specific and more than most vehicles, bar a sports car maybe, it's a lifestyle/ fun purchase bigger than most. Buying new isn't so crazy. Buying an unused prereg with your choice of options at a discount is nirvana.

We are just lucky that the usual depreciation rules don't (quite) apply and that we get to enjoy and be passionate about our 2 tons of steel and plastic far more than the average car buyer. Heck we even get to wind others up about their passion for having towel racks on the tailgate and mini kitchens getting in their way in the back.

 

[GrannyJen]

I was playing devils advocate in that post in relation to earlier posts. Simple fact is different purchasing approaches can make complete sense depending on your situation. I could have sold an asset to fully cover the payment for my van but was happier using a finance route for several reasons and from my calculations the route I took is the cheapest way to do it without paying in full with the only other consideration being HP with a 50% plus deposit but again at this point I didn't want to commit that much cash.

Personally I want a van whilst my children are still young enough (currently 5 and 2) to enjoy it and 30k + for a van approaching or over 100k just didn't make sense for us as we will use this vehicle as a daily as well as rack up many miles using it for racing and holidays.

Totally agree with you.

You simply cannot put a value on memories. My biggest regrets are the holidays and trips with ou children we never took. Enjoy your children, those times will make you richer beyond anything else.