Vehicle class

[Stoneybroke]

VW will have 'Type Approval' for the California in all its guises, so the classification is a standard one, now a European standard, so the dealer will not change the standard classification for a new vehicle.
Conversions are different.

Edit VW press pack for the California and Beach states..."is the only recreational vehicle of its sort available officially in the UK with full European Whole Vehicle Type Approval." You'll have to Google it, as there are warnings about use of the material!

As far as insurance goes, don't assume the insurers know what they are doing. I rang my last insurer to notify them of some alterations (leisure battery and swivel seat base) on my Caravelle, which is advertised as having a rear seat that doubles as a bed (same as the seater Beach) and when I said about planning to sleep in it, they had a fit. We eventually came to an agreement (I didn't renew with them) but they couldn't get their head around a multipurpose vehicle...
I changed to a specialist insurer, got cover for awning and kit, and saved about 20% too.

 

[Bigted]

Spoke to VWCS today about this - wee wee up in a brewery about describes what they knew - said it should be claffified as N1 not M1 and body type 'transporter'. I pointed out that 'transporter' was unlikely to be a dvla body type but he insisted! Anyhow I got the email to VW type approval dept so will see what they say.

 

[2into1]

There is no doubting that all the Cali models have European type approval but that is about meeting quality standards, and doesn't seem to have anything to do with the OPs question which is specific to UK tax classification.

Vehicles classified by the Dvla as motor caravans get perks in terms of lower vehicle duty, reflecting the fact they tend to be used for leisure and only cover low mileages, particularly compared to the passenger carrying versions of the panel vans on which many are based, which are taxed on co2 and now (?) list price.

The dvla want to know these are true leisure vehicles rather than vans just seeking to gain lower duties. That is why they publish the long list of habitation kit they use as a 'test'.

If my understanding explained above is correct, then the beach doesn't meet those requirements as it doesn't have fixed cooking facilities. (hail me being shot down for discrediting the beach again) whereas the SE does.

At risk of repeating myself, many early SE Cali's were initially registered and taxed as cars (at huge expense) by dealers who treated them like cavarelles. The correct procedure was then put in place. The same ignorance of the rules could be the reason why many beaches are being registered as motor caravans, as they are both Cali's, but I suspect it is in error.

I'd welcome some fresh voices in this debate. It's important to get to the correct answer and I've said my bit a couple of times, and some defensive owners have taken it personally.

 

[mccp]

I'd welcome some fresh voices in this debate.

I don't know if it adds anything, but I've recently been in touch with DVLA about the registration categories to try and work out what will change next April. The link is a summary of the response.

Still wondering if you should buy? Do you know what's coming?

 

[Life's a beach]

Like it or not, we are all Motor Caravanners!

 

[soulstyledevon]

Hi, my VC5 doc says...

Body type: Motor Caravan
Taxation class: Diesel Car

Hope that helps.

T4WFA

You just answered your own question...!!!
Taxation class is diesel car.

 

[soulstyledevon]

Body Type is motor caravan.
Im guessing it can't be classed as Saloon vehicle. How many Saloon cars do you know with a poptop

 

[Bigted]

There is no doubting that all the Cali models have European type approval but that is about meeting quality standards, and doesn't seem to have anything to do with the OPs question which is specific to UK tax classification.

Vehicles classified by the Dvla as motor caravans get perks in terms of lower vehicle duty, reflecting the fact they tend to be used for leisure and only cover low mileages, particularly compared to the passenger carrying versions of the panel vans on which many are based, which are taxed on co2 and now (?) list price.

The dvla want to know these are true leisure vehicles rather than vans just seeking to gain lower duties. That is why they publish the long list of habitation kit they use as a 'test'.

If my understanding explained above is correct, then the beach doesn't meet those requirements as it doesn't have fixed cooking facilities. (hail me being shot down for discrediting the beach again) whereas the SE does.

At risk of repeating myself, many early SE Cali's were initially registered and taxed as cars (at huge expense) by dealers who treated them like cavarelles. The correct procedure was then put in place. The same ignorance of the rules could be the reason why many beaches are being registered as motor caravans, as they are both Cali's, but I suspect it is in error.

I'd welcome some fresh voices in this debate. It's important to get to the correct answer and I've said my bit a couple of times, and some defensive owners have taken it personally.

I agree let's try o get to the correct answer

VWCS said it should be "vehicle category" N1 not the M1 as on my V5. N1 is commercial vans to carry goods - see link

http://www.dft.gov.uk/vca/vehicletype/definition-of-vehicle-categories.asp

So it seems VWCS don't seem to know either as M1 is a better fit.

My beach is classed as diesel car for taxation purposes and body type is motor caravan. I agree that the confusion lies in the fixed cooking facilities of the motor caravan definition.

 

[2into1]

T4WFA

You just answered your own question...!!!
Taxation class is diesel car.

Quoting one response when we already know different owners have different results doesn't take us forward.

The link provided to by @mccp has some good info but I don't think a conclusion . What it does show is that there will be huge differences in cost of ownership on 2017 vans if their cost is over £40k (tick) depending on the outcome.

 

[soulstyledevon]

I agree let's try o get to the correct answer

VWCS said it should be "vehicle category" N1 not the M1 as on my V5. N1 is commercial vans to carry goods - see link

http://www.dft.gov.uk/vca/vehicletype/definition-of-vehicle-categories.asp

So it seems VWCS don't seem to know either as M1 is a better fit.

My beach is classed as diesel car for taxation purposes and body type is motor caravan. I agree that the confusion lies in the fixed cooking facilities of the motor caravan definition.

Although as stated the list is referring to converted vans...???
Where does the line get drawn. Do we have to go back down the line and re-classify my 1973 type 2 because that was classed as camper van and also had no fixed hob or water

Im sure DVLA have decided that the vehicle being as unique as it is. Has decided to subject it to the closest classification it feels it belongs too.

 

[owen_h]

This is what I posted a month or so ago on a similar question:

Would have thought that all the DVLA are interested in is 1) how much tax is due and 2) is the vehicle safe to be on the road. They really won’t care if we want to get cheaper ferry crossings or camp at Glastonbury.

How much tax is dealt with by Taxation class and from V355/1 DVLA document these are the available classes for vehicles under 3500kg

And the notes on what M1 and N1 are :

For Taxation class there doesn’t seem to be any Motor Caravan or campervan option.

From the above I would derive that both the Beach and SE/Ocean are M1 (carriage of passengers) and will either fall in the PLG or Diesel car tax class depending if they were registered before or after 01/03/01. In the Taxation class category do SE or Ocean owners have anything other than PLG or Diesel car??

I can’t find an equivalent document listing the Body type options. What there is a lot of is info about re-classifying vehicles from N1 to M1 (carriage of goods to carriage of passengers) and also details of requirements for type approval or single vehicle approval (SVA). This all seems to me to be dealing with matters of safety or conversion.

My thoughts on the V5 body type category is that it is just as typed. The ”Type of Body” that the vehicle has. Interior fittings or lack thereof for V5 purposes are irrelevant.

Example: An observer (say traffic police) sees me travelling at 70mph on a dual carriageway, does he pull me over for speeding? No, because he/she can identify that my body type is a Motor Caravan (Beach or SE) and thus I am an M1 class vehicle and not an N1 (subject to 60mph limit on dual carriageway)

just my thoughts anyway.

As alluded to above it all changes next year and probably not for the better in the case of any Cali with a decent spec (Beach or Ocean).

 

[2into1]

@soulstyle, it's not about your 1973 van. The same modern vans (SE's but more recently Beaches) have different classifications, based on which dealer registered them and when. We are trying to work out what should have happened to them, and what will have when the rules change again in 2017.

I think I may just keep mine - it passed it's MOT first time today. Gets a bit worrying at 17 years old.

 

[soulstyledevon]

I agree let's try o get to the correct answer

VWCS said it should be "vehicle category" N1 not the M1 as on my V5. N1 is commercial vans to carry goods - see link

http://www.dft.gov.uk/vca/vehicletype/definition-of-vehicle-categories.asp

So it seems VWCS don't seem to know either as M1 is a better fit.

My beach is classed as diesel car for taxation purposes and body type is motor caravan. I agree that the confusion lies in the fixed cooking facilities of the motor caravan definition.

Personally VWCS is way off the mark, see below from DVLA
The Beach can't be classed as N, thats not its main construction design

Category M: Motor vehicles with at least four wheels designed and constructed for the carriage of passengers.

• Category M1: Vehicles designed and constructed for the carriage of passengers and comprising no more than eight seats in addition to the driver's seat.

Category N: Motor vehicles with at least four wheels designed and constructed for the carriage of goods.

• Category N1: Vehicles designed and constructed for the carriage of goods and having a maximum mass not exceeding 3,5 tonnes.

 

[soulstyledevon]

@soulstyle, it's not about your 1973 van. The same modern vans (SE's but more recently Beaches) have different classifications, based on which dealer registered them and when. We are trying to work out what should have happened to them, and what will have when the rules change again in 2017.

I think I may just keep mine - it passed it's MOT first time today. Gets a bit worrying at 17 years old.

Do we have anyone on the forum with this different tax classification...???
So far all/most are the following:

Body type: Motor Caravan
Taxation class: Diesel Car

 

[soulstyledevon]

I think I may just keep mine - it passed it's MOT first time today. Gets a bit worrying at 17 years old.

Its a T4, i wouldn't worry to much...!!!

 

[Geezso]

A California regardless of spec is also a M1 class designed for carriage of passengers. A van is N1 as designed for carriage of goods.
I would 'assume' the perfect storm would be.
M1 with beds?
Any Mazda bongo owners shine any light on their classification? Wether conversion or factory fit.

 

[rod_vw]

In support of the theory that a Beach should NOT have the Body Type as Motor Caravan on its V5C.

As quoted by some above the conditions for conversions to be re-classified as Motor Caravan are as follows...

"In order for a converted vehicle to qualify as a motor caravan it must have certain minimum features, as follows:

• a door that provides access to the living accommodation
• a bed, which has a minimum length of 1800mm or 6 feet. This can be converted from seats used for other purposes during the day but must be permanently fixed within the body of the vehicle
• a water storage tank or container on, or in, the vehicle
• a seating and dining area, permanently attached to the vehicle. The table may be detachable but must have some permanent means of attachment to the vehicle. It is not good enough to have a loose table
• a permanently fixed means of storage, a cupboard, locker or wardrobe
• a permanently fixed cooking facility within the vehicle, powered by gas or electricity
• at least one window on the side of the accommodation

If the vehicle has all of these features present, permanently fixed and installed properly, then it is a legal requirement to have it reclassified as a motor caravan on the V5C."

This is a direct quote from https://www.gov.uk/government/uploa...537/Converting_a_vehicle_into_a_motorhome.pdf

As I understand it all motor caravan converters whether building a new vehicle (Autosleepers, Bilbos, Danbury etc.) or converting a pre-registered vehicle have to construct within these guidelines to attain the V5C Body Type description as 'Motor Caravan'. Additionally those converting on a new un-registered vehicle have to construct within more stringent guidelines to have the vehicle first registered and type approved as a 'Motor Caravan'.

I have been through the process of changing the body type to 'Motor Caravan' four times during the past twelve years, each time on a vehicle with no more than delivery mileage but per-registered three times as window vans and once as a Kombi. Each time the DVLA have required photographs of the vehicle to confirm that the above criterion have been met before they would change the body type. Also in all cases my insurers (various companies) have required a copy of the changed V5C before insuring the vehicles as Motor Caravans.

As for what the V5C says on the current vehicle this is...

Model --- Transporter T32 Trendline TDI LWB
Body Type --- Motor Caravan
Taxation Class --- Light Goods vehicle
.
.
CO2 --- 214G/KM
.
.
Number of seats including driver --- 4
.
.Vehicle Catagory --- N1

Nowhere does it mention that the vehicle was a Kombi and fitted with 5 seats or that additional windows have been fitted, I requested the change to 4 seats again for correctness for insurance reasons.

So in my opinion all Beach owners who have a body type shown as Motor Caravan have two options.

1. Forget that they have ever read anything about it or ever questioned it.

or

2. Write to the DVLA with a full specification and photos of their vehicle outside and interior and ask if there are any changes that need to be made.

Happy camping

Rod
(currently on an 'Aire' at Tintagel)

 

[CYCLOPATH]

For what it's worth, my diesel car( motor caravan ) has just been over the bridge into Wales, I was expecting to pay 13 quid, as a van, as per the picture,
But the cashier said , as I had seats and Windows, I was classes as a car, and only 6 quid....happy me.

 

[snowy55]

I th

For what it's worth, my diesel car( motor caravan ) has just been over the bridge into Wales, I was expecting to pay 13 quid, as a van, as per the picture,
But the cashier said , as I had seats and Windows, I was classes as a car, and only 6 quid....happy me.

I thought that bridge had Automatic Number Plate Recognition system to determin the tariff.

 

[CYCLOPATH]

I th


I thought that bridge had Automatic Number Plate Recognition system to determin the tariff.

I didn't go in the car ones, because I thaught we were not a car.....
So I went in the other one, with an attendant, and asked as I payed,,
He also said it would be OK for us to go in the car lanes.....,,they go through quicker

 

[Loz]

For what it's worth, my diesel car( motor caravan ) has just been over the bridge into Wales, I was expecting to pay 13 quid, as a van, as per the picture,
But the cashier said , as I had seats and Windows, I was classes as a car, and only 6 quid....happy me.

Interesting, I have a sanef tag for the French tolls as it saves hours of queuing, but I wonder about the French system classing it as a commercial on the auto tolls?

 

[WelshGas]

I th


I thought that bridge had Automatic Number Plate Recognition system to determin the tariff.

Only on the Non-manned Tag lane.

 

[jts46]

Interesting, I have a sanef tag for the French tolls as it saves hours of queuing, but I wonder about the French system classing it as a commercial on the auto tolls?

I also have a sanef tag and my Cali is classed as class1

 

[CYCLOPATH]

I also have a sanef tag and my Cali is classed as class1

I think, from reading on another van forum, that the French system scans your height, and as long as you are below 2 meters you are ok

 

[cockleshell]

We are insured with comfort. My husband arranged it but from what he said it's not insured as a camper as no cooker. It's insured as a car.