VW e-Transporter & e-California

[Louis II]

Just to talk about something else:
I do not comment on the content of the article or the photos, just for your information
(copied and pasted from Autoblog)

VW ID. Buzz spy photos show it wearing Transporter clothes

VW ID. Buzz electric minivan appears in prototype form in these spy photos. They show it with a body based on the Transporter commercial van.

www.autoblog.com

Like the idea of a 302hp model, just need to swap out the battery for a hydrogen fuel cell + network of filling stations and I’m in.

 

[DavidofHook]

Just like any form of progress we will probably have to change our views on distance travelled in a day, If the 2030 end of Diesel/Petrol end deadline includes camper vans then we won’t have any choice.
I would have thought that batteries by that time will probably have many times the capacity than they have now so won’t have to worry. Horse and carriage, Steam, Petrol/Diesel, Battery, Solar??

Hydrogen?

 

[Ferring-about]

Just like any form of progress we will probably have to change our views on distance travelled in a day, If the 2030 end of Diesel/Petrol end deadline includes camper vans then we won’t have any choice.
I would have thought that batteries by that time will probably have many times the capacity than they have now so won’t have to worry. Horse and carriage, Steam, Petrol/Diesel, Battery, Solar??

And it is only for the sale of brand new vehicles the 2030 date.

 

[soulstyledevon]

And it is only for the sale of brand new vehicles the 2030 date.

Its as if people believe gasoline will no longer be available in 9 years time...???

 

[Kevthegas]

I plan to order a new diesel Cali in September 2029, by the time it arrives (18 months prob by then) I will have beaten the system for a while !

 

[Calimili]

Horse and carriage, Steam, Petrol/Diesel, Battery, Solar??

The evolution Horse, Steam, Petrol/Diesel was a result of ever increasing power/speed, increasing range, shortening of refuel time, reliability and ease of operation, including ease of refueling/recharging.
For EV to be successful they need to be better in all those regards, they need to be an improvement not a step backwards. Ideally they should pollute less as well, including during their manufacturing process.
I'll pass for now and keep on with Diesel.

 

[rupertpoon]

Let’s keep some perspective on the damage oil refining does to our environment. That’s CO2 during refining and transportation and actual use in a car or van. It does not just appear by magic at the pumps. I love our vans but they have a cost and slating EV’s will not hide the true cost of petrol and diesel. Look at the latest reports which show an electricity grid becoming more carbon neutral. These are what drive progress in EV’s towards being carbon neutral.

Be careful what you read in the mainstream press on EV’s as it is not always balanced and may be pushed by oil companies or car companies. If you want an examples:
- Last year the old report that EV’swould not be carbon neutral for 60k miles was dug up by the mainstream papers and trotted out, even though the facts were 10 years out of date
- upon investigation it was found to be pushed by Aston Martin who lack the investment to move to EV’s. It was pushed by an shell PR company run by the wife of an Aston Martin director


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[66tim99]

I plan to order a new diesel Cali in September 2029, by the time it arrives (18 months prob by then) I will have beaten the system for a while !

No Cali's on a dead planet

 

[Jayne.L]

The evolution Horse, Steam, Petrol/Diesel was a result of ever increasing power/speed, increasing range, shortening of refuel time, reliability and ease of operation, including ease of refueling/recharging.
For EV to be successful they need to be better in all those regards, they need to be an improvement not a step backwards. Ideally they should pollute less as well, including during their manufacturing process.
I'll pass for now and keep on with Diesel.

As with all things to progress forward you sometimes have to take a step back. But you have to accept that Petrol and Diesel have a limited life span. You will probably still be able to buy them for the next 50 years but they will be expensive and harder to get.

 

[altvic]

Let’s keep some perspective on the damage oil refining does to our environment. That’s CO2 during refining and transportation and actual use in a car or van. It does not just appear by magic at the pumps. I love our vans but they have a cost and slating EV’s will not hide the true cost of petrol and diesel. Look at the latest reports which show an electricity grid becoming more carbon neutral. These are what drive progress in EV’s towards being carbon neutral.

Be careful what you read in the mainstream press on EV’s as it is not always balanced and may be pushed by oil companies or car companies. If you want an examples:
- Last year the old report that EV’swould not be carbon neutral for 60k miles was dug up by the mainstream papers and trotted out, even though the facts were 10 years out of date
- upon investigation it was found to be pushed by Aston Martin who lack the investment to move to EV’s. It was pushed by an shell PR company run by the wife of an Aston Martin director


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

When I left Uni in mid 70s I got a job in the oil industry. The ‘oil field’ was developing and its workers were seen as at the forefront of a new UK tech economy in high recognition jobs with huge political currency.
How times have changed. Over the last five years I have been repeatedly spat at, received verbal threats and abuse, video taken, vehicles vandalised and even a Coop business bank account closed because my business ‘did not meet with the bank’s moral and ethical criteria’! Perceptions of me have gone from ‘hero to enviro-criminal’.
How long will it be before the present new technologies become the new scourge of populist opinion? Battery manufacture and disposal is far from problem free, wind farms damage the environment and fauna. And how safe is nuclear power?
What I am attempting to say is that whatever new technologies humans use to protect and develop our World, there will be unintended consequences just like there were with the White Heat of Technology. Perhaps it is true that the greatest threat to Earth (and Mars and Moon ) are humans.

 

[Erbster]

When I left Uni in mid 70s I got a job in the oil industry. The ‘oil field’ was developing and its workers were seen as at the forefront of a new UK tech economy in high recognition jobs with huge political currency.
How times have changed. Over the last five years I have been repeatedly spat at, received verbal threats and abuse, video taken, vehicles vandalised and even a Coop business bank account closed because my business ‘did not meet with the bank’s moral and ethical criteria’! Perceptions of me have gone from ‘hero to enviro-criminal’.
How long will it be before the present new technologies become the new scourge of populist opinion? Battery manufacture and disposal is far from problem free, wind farms damage the environment and fauna. And how safe is nuclear power?
What I am attempting to say is that whatever new technologies humans use to protect and develop our World, there will be unintended consequences just like there were with the White Heat of Technology. Perhaps it is true that the greatest threat to Earth (and Mars and Moon ) are humans.

It’s really sad to hear of the abuse you’ve suffered. Humans are damaging the planet in multitudes of ways. Most people want to feel green but see things in black and white. EV technology is progressing at an astonishing rate - look at the range (number of) and capabilities of EVs now compared to a few years ago. For most people an EV makes sense as a general vehicle. However, as a camperI can’t see an electric Cali being suited to what I want from the vehicle. Many may be happy with a range of 150-200 miles (many campsites will likely add EV charging points) but i like to get out in the wild places for days at a time. Interesting times!

 

[Calimili]

It’s really sad to hear of the abuse you’ve suffered. Humans are damaging the planet in multitudes of ways. Most people want to feel green but see things in black and white. EV technology is progressing at an astonishing rate - look at the range (number of) and capabilities of EVs now compared to a few years ago. For most people an EV makes sense as a general vehicle. However, as a camperI can’t see an electric Cali being suited to what I want from the vehicle. Many may be happy with a range of 150-200 miles (many campsites will likely add EV charging points) but i like to get out in the wild places for days at a time. Interesting times!

Lots of people making you feel guilty for driving a Diesel and showing you how good they are driving their EV because they care about the environment unlike you, travel to holiday or long weekends by plane producing per head more CO2 on that trip to Goa, Miami or wherever the F. they are going, than you in a year on your diesel car.

 

[GrumpyGranddad]

Lots of people making you feel guilty for driving a Diesel and showing you how good they are driving their EV because they care about the environment unlike you, travel to holiday or long weekends by plane producing per head more CO2 on that trip to Goa, Miami or wherever the F. they are going, than you in a year on your diesel car.

Especially the so called ‘celebrities’.

 

[Bellcrew]

Lots of people making you feel guilty for driving a Diesel and showing you how good they are driving their EV because they care about the environment unlike you, travel to holiday or long weekends by plane producing per head more CO2 on that trip to Goa, Miami or wherever the F. they are going, than you in a year on your diesel car.

Green an epithet when applied to people used to mean naïve/inexperienced or even ignorant now it appears to refer to the new saints who show their goodness by advocating humanities return to the stone age.
Oddly they are in reality some of the biggest emitters of this dangerous plant food but hope the plebs believe that some offsetting magic will somehow help them avoid the accusation of stinking hypocrisy, delusion is a wonderful thing.

 

[FivetonesCali]

The Japanese government does not have these distractions and whilst they are encouraging the use of electric vehicles , their manufacturers are pushing hard for hydrogen fuel cell technology which makes more sense for long distance endurance/heavy vehicle usage. Taxation will be the biggest conundrum in the change from hydrocarbon power to electricity.

Currently limited route to green hydrogen at scale. Why do you think Toyota switched strategy to EV?

 

[Corradobrit]

Why do you think Toyota switched strategy to EV?

Cos they need to make money in the interim while the technology is still developing. And governments are demanding a certain percentage of an auto companies output is EV. And the profit margins are higher for an EV vs ICE, so its a no brainer.

 

[FivetonesCali]

Cos they need to make money in the interim while the technology is still developing. And governments are demanding a certain percentage of an auto companies output is EV. And the profit margins are higher for an EV vs ICE, so it’s a no brainer.

This doesn’t address the blue vs green hydrogen problem. Priorities - it’s a better of use of energy to use electricity generated to charge batteries.

Hydrogen, when it can be produced with no fossil fuels should be prioritised for heavy goods or more energy dense ammonia power.

Ultimately personal transport needs much more public transport and the transition, to be just, needs to be fully multi-modal. Are we ready for that? Well, it’s clear most on this forum aren’t! But then, we’re a certain demographic and age.

I’m not pretending EVs are a panacea. In the form they are now they certainly aren’t. However most (99%) of people don’t drive over 100 miles in a day. Most people don’t need the performance we see now (hence high insurance). 800V systems and good infra mean that smaller batteries are possible and they can go from 0-80% while you have a comfort break.

Nothing is a no brainer and we shouldn’t pretend it is.

 

[Corradobrit]

This doesn’t address the blue vs green hydrogen problem. Priorities - it’s a better of use of energy to use electricity generated to charge batteries.

Hydrogen, when it can be produced with no fossil fuels should be prioritised for heavy goods or more energy dense ammonia power.

Ultimately personal transport needs much more public transport and the transition, to be just, needs to be fully multi-modal. Are we ready for that? Well, it’s clear most on this forum aren’t! But then, we’re a certain demographic and age.

I’m not pretending EVs are a panacea. In the form they are now they certainly aren’t. However most (99%) of people don’t drive over 100 miles in a day. Most people don’t need the performance we see now (hence high insurance). 800V systems and good infra mean that smaller batteries are possible and they can go from 0-80% while you have a comfort break.

Nothing is a no brainer and we shouldn’t pretend it is.

Europe is sitting on a goldmine or that should be gasmine....white hydrogen is the answer.

World's largest white hydrogen deposit found in France | World Economic Forum

 

[FivetonesCali]

That is interesting but the Uk alone used 45000M litres of petrol and diesel a year in 2021 - https://www.racfoundation.org/data/volume-petrol-diesel-consumed-uk-over-time-by-year

1kg of hydrogen is around 3.8litres equivalent - 175000M litres (that whole white hydrogen deposit) would last 4 years - Uk alone!

Let’s be real, hydrogen is a fig leaf for the oil and gas industry to keep extracting fossil fuels from the ground. Look at the conclusion of cop28 for solid proof of that.

 

[Corradobrit]

Yes there will need to be a step change in the technology but blanket BEV usage is not the answer. It is likely to be a mixed energy solution that will ultimately work for all.

 

[Calimili]

will any of these new technologies in cars offset the pollution resulting from the massive growth of the airline industry ?
We've got India and China ordering jets in 500 clips (jet-fuel jets not electric jets!) , we don't dare even think about talking on a modernisation of the propulsion method of big (dirt-oil) container ships for fear or undoing any progress made on reducing inflation , but we bull$hit ourselves constantly on the need to change cars.
What about wars? does prolonging them as we do helps the climate cause, any CO2 produced there by fighter jets, bombs, all sort of explosions--- Destoying everything only to have to rebuild it in the future again?
How about listing issues by order of pollution/CO2 creation and prioritise intelligently instead of letting this EV fanatism screw our lives ?

 

[B J G]

will any of these new technologies in cars offset the pollution resulting from the massive growth of the airline industry ?
We've got India and China ordering jets in 500 clips (jet-fuel jets not electric jets!) , we don't dare even think about talking on a modernisation of the propulsion method of big (dirt-oil) container ships for fear or undoing any progress made on reducing inflation , but we bull$hit ourselves constantly on the need to change cars.
What about wars? does prolonging them as we do helps the climate cause, any CO2 produced there by fighter jets, bombs, all sort of explosions--- Destoying everything only to have to rebuild it in the future again?
How about listing issues by order of pollution/CO2 creation and prioritise intelligently instead of letting this EV fanatism screw our lives ?

With you on the war pollution aspect not even taking the manufacturing of homes, vehicles, factories afterwards causing more long term damage.

Ships are having to meet new pollution levels in EU waters.

I haven't seen (may have missed it) any mention of converting Gas powered Electricity generating plants to use Hydrogen instead.

 

[GrumpyGranddad]

Surely the melting permafrost has the potential to negate much of what is being done to halt climate change.

“Scientists estimate that there are about 1,400 gigatons of carbon frozen in permafrost. That means that permafrost holds 2.5 times the carbon that is currently in the atmosphere.”

 

[FivetonesCali]

This is why the world’s governments need to act quickly and effectively to keep below 1.5c of temp rise. That release would be part of a runaway process at a temperature rise we can’t be sure of.

 

[Perfectos]

The world’s governments need to act quickly and effectively

We are Fooked , never in the history of man has this happened, never is it likely to happen until it’s too late . COP24 what a joke