VW e-Transporter & e-California

[WelshGas]

The Government stated only electric or hybrid "Cars" to be sold by 2040, no mention of Commercial vehicles. The California is based on a Commercial vehicle.
Also, how far could an all electric vehicle tow a Caravan. Love them or hate them there are a lot of them. Imagine them queuing for the fast Charger bay. Do they unhitch?
For the 2nd car fine, for the main family car used for long distance with the family, a nightmare.
It just ain't going to work within the timeframe given without major sociological and economic changes. Some of the French and Italians I mentioned this to, on my travels, just laughed.
We need 6+ nuclear power stations, no planning enquiries, just build them and major power distribution investment, and this is not just confined to the UK. It will come but not by 2040.
The most cost effective alternative would be Hydrogen fuel cell power..
No batteries, no massive charging infrastructure. Lighter vehicles, keep the present fuel distribution system but change to Hydrogen with localised production plants using off peak generation and environmentally friendly power generation.

 

[hirsty]

Will any of the pseudo scientists acknowledge that it’s perhaps possible that;

- battery technology will (continue to) improve exponentially delivering more power from less weight at a lower price point?

- electric motor technology will (continue to) improve exponentially delivering more power from less weight at a lower price point?

- vehicle manufacturing technology will (continue to) improve exponentially delivering more efficient vehicles (reduced weight / friction / drag / servicing) from better design / analytics / materials?

- efficiency from every other device is increasing too, an LED TV consumes a fraction of the Plama it replaced. Same with washers, microwaves & industrial user infrastructure - all means that the rate of demand increase is at least slowed.

- I’d like to see the correlation of Tesla car owners to Tesla Powerwall owners too, how fantastic to absorb free power during the day & put it into your car overnight. As solar technology improves we’ll get more & more bang for buck there too.

As per Tesla owner above, many cars will start the day off a full charge & most won’t be run down daily either. Whilst there are always outlier examples to make a point, most current journeys are urban & very short / walkable - 20M cars aren’t going to need to suck down 300+ miles of charge every night & bring down the grid ...

See also: Moore’s Law

 

[briwy]

Whatever happens to battery technology, and I've no doubt it will improve dramatically at some stage, they will still need charging. No such thing as a free lunch. So, Boris' point about where will it come from is valid.
Also I can't see it getting to the stage where a recharge will be as convenient as topping up at a garage, no more five minute stops and on the way again. Hybrid yes, fully electric no way unless you like hanging around for ages.
As I understand the ranges quoted for electric vehicles are similar to petrol/diesel figures, ie. vastly overstated. No lights on, no heater etc.

 

[Milo4]

It's valid to raise the question about electricity supply, but actually the current grid and generation is more than enough to cope with an increase in EVs. Most EVs will be on charge overnight when there is lots of spare baseload going to waste. This will probably be managed by smart meters that can control when to deliver power to different appliances- many EV owners already use Economy 7 and charge during this off peak period anyway. The massive draw on power is during the day due to manufacturing demand.

Hydrogen fuel cell is dead for car use - everyone is pulling out of it (see Toyota and Hyundai announcements recently). A common misconception with Hydrogen is that people don't realise it's still an electric car but rather than carry a battery you have to carry both liquid hydrogen and the fuel cell to convert it to electricity- so massively inefficient. That's before we even discuss how you make hydrogen using even more electricity to separate and pressurise/liquify it. It's also incredibly dangerous compared to lithium batteries.

I'm not a massive greeny but would recommend anyone with some spare time test driving a Tesla/Nissan Leaf/BMW i3 etc for a laugh. It's the future and far easier to get your head around once you have had a play.

 

[B J G]

The Cali in set-up as we know it now (T5/6 ) can not be powerd by electric engine imo.
Battery's and generator probally weigh more than a engine and 80l fuel .
Plus the fact most electric verhicles have a small combistion engine to back up when battery's are low.

A Cali now can only take 500kg load , wonder how much a electric Cali would be carrying 50kg .

Just my 50cent

Very much what I was thinking especially as the Cali is 2-3 times the weight of a normal city electric car.

As time progresses it may be possible to simply have an exchange battery pack system rather than having to wait for a recharge. Price premium would apply though.

 

[WelshGas]

Will any of the pseudo scientists acknowledge that it’s perhaps possible that;

- battery technology will (continue to) improve exponentially delivering more power from less weight at a lower price point?

- electric motor technology will (continue to) improve exponentially delivering more power from less weight at a lower price point?

- vehicle manufacturing technology will (continue to) improve exponentially delivering more efficient vehicles (reduced weight / friction / drag / servicing) from better design / analytics / materials?

- efficiency from every other device is increasing too, an LED TV consumes a fraction of the Plama it replaced. Same with washers, microwaves & industrial user infrastructure - all means that the rate of demand increase is at least slowed.

- I’d like to see the correlation of Tesla car owners to Tesla Powerwall owners too, how fantastic to absorb free power during the day & put it into your car overnight. As solar technology improves we’ll get more & more bang for buck there too.

As per Tesla owner above, many cars will start the day off a full charge & most won’t be run down daily either. Whilst there are always outlier examples to make a point, most current journeys are urban & very short / walkable - 20M cars aren’t going to need to suck down 300+ miles of charge every night & bring down the grid ...

See also: Moore’s Law

From one pseudo scientist to another, because I'm sure you're not an expert in all the fields you mentioned, I fully accept that vehicle technology will improve as will drivetrain technology and manufacturing. Batteries will no doubt improve but there will need to be a massive increase in manufacturing and a subsequent increase in our recycling capability. We cannot even dispose of the present zinc carbon and lithium computer batteries in an environmentally friendly manner.
You still haven't considered the fact that the vast majority of car owners do not have Off street parking so charging at night or using Tesla Powerwalls is just pie in the sky.
The present Tesla electric vehicle significantly overstate the possible mileage possibilities. My brother in law has one and can just barely cover his 140 mile commute if the weather is poor and during winter with lights heater and windscreen wipers then forget it. He uses his Mercedes then having run out of battery 5 miles from home and having to be low loaded home to charge up. The Tesla was designed and proven on the wide open roads of the USA not the Welsh Valleys.

 

[Hotel California]

@hirsty , agree with your view that we are not scientist and things are there to develop further .
BUT , we are talking banning petrol/diesel powerd engines and the oilbussines will do everything to hold this off as long as possible .

They probally can produce all the things you name and maybe a E-Cali at this time allready , but at what cost?

E-Cali will not be on my driveway , by the time that VW can suply that for a reasonable price i need a personal careing nurse to go camping with me...

 

[bigmac77]

Has battery technology improved? I have a mobile phone that lasts about 14 hours per charge. My phone in the late 90's lasted about 4 days. I recognise my current phone is much more power hungry but surely batteries should have kept pace with this, they have not.

 

[Hotel California]

Has battery technology improved? I have a mobile phone that lasts about 14 hours per charge. My phone in the late 90's lasted about 4 days. I recognise my current phone is much more power hungry but surely batteries should have kept pace with this, they have not.

To much on facebook Chris ,
back in the days a mobile phone was used as a phone now a days it is a portable computer.

 

[Milo4]

Actually most cars parked at home are off street. It's a common argument thrown up against EVs and while it's true for some people, most could charge at home. Here is an outdated report but page 4 gives some idea of the numbers

http://www.racfoundation.org/assets/rac_foundation/content/downloadables/facts_on_parking.pdf

 

[Erbster]

I'm following this discussion with interest. I would add a further point about EVs: if Musk is right, it's not long before cars will be autonomous. He says that this will create a paradigm shift in car ownership- many will not need to own a car, it can be ordered when needed; others may own a car, but when it's dropped you off at work, may ferry others around during the day (Uber-like, off setting the high purchase cost). This is a pretty radical idea, but it does make sense; for many, their car sits idle for most of the time. Who knows if this will come to pass, but certainly interesting times ahead...


Charles

 

[BikerGran]

The thing that people don't seem to think of when discussing electric vehicles is - where's all this electricity going to come from? We currently have just about enough generating power to keep the country going, but if all the vehicles were electric we'd need a helluva lot more than that!

 

[BikerGran]

Actually most cars parked at home are off street. It's a common argument thrown up against EVs and while it's true for some people, most could charge at home. Here is an outdated report but page 4 gives some idea of the numbers

http://www.racfoundation.org/assets/rac_foundation/content/downloadables/facts_on_parking.pdf

That article appears to contradict itself. At one point it says
"57% of parking acts at the end of a trip take place away from home: an average of 39 million every day."

Then later "A quarter of the vehicles in Great Britain are parked on thestreet. Others are parked in garages or on driveways."

 

[Milo4]

It's not a contradiction- ones talking about parking at the end of a journey e.g. Shopping, work etc. The other is talking about where cars live at people's homes.

If you don't like the report then feel free to google another - there are lots of stats to support this. It's counter intuitive to many people because they assume that lots of people that live in flats in cities park on the street, when actually they either don't have cars or the block has some form of car parking provision

Back on topic - I think a hybrid Cali could be interesting. Imagine if you had say 50 miles of electric range plus a petrol engine. All the extra torque from the petrol for hills etc but also the ability to go into stealth mode for pootling around the country lanes. You would wake up every morning with 50 miles of free range

 

[WelshGas]

It's not a contradiction- ones talking about parking at the end of a journey e.g. Shopping, work etc. The other is talking about where cars live at people's homes.

If you don't like the report then feel free to google another - there are lots of stats to support this. It's counter intuitive to many people because they assume that lots of people that live in flats in cities park on the street, when actually they either don't have cars or the block has some form of car parking provision

Back on topic - I think a hybrid Cali could be interesting. Imagine if you had say 50 miles of electric range plus a petrol engine. All the extra torque from the petrol for hills etc but also the ability to go into stealth mode for pootling around the country lanes. You would wake up every morning with 50 miles of free range

But a Hybrid is a totally different animal to an All Electric Vehicle and something that could be built now. A Lithium Battery Pack in place of the Leisure and Engine Batteries and the California has plenty of room for such an installation.

 

[2haw]

Microbus is now confirmed by VW for 2022, this may provide a camper version?

 

[2haw]

As we mainly use our Beach as the families mobile shed, I can see one of these on my drive as soon as it arrives.

 

[Milo4]

The other interesting thing about EVs is that the battery pack tends to be built low and flat into the floorpan- this frees up extra interior space. Imagine what VW could do with all that extra space to store stuff!

 

[Digger]

The other interesting thing about EVs is that the battery pack tends to be built low and flat into the floorpan- this frees up extra interior space. Imagine what VW could do with all that extra space to store stuff!

What extra space? Battery pack raises floor level so may reduce headroom or make vehicle so tall unable to get under 2m barriers..
As this is so far in the future I will continue to enjoy my Cali to the full and see what the future holds as to be honest no one knows.

 

[Days out]

I'm out in California at Monterey home of the Pebble Beach Concours d' Elegance and checking out the ID Buzz which is confirmed for production. This is of course the concept car that I saw at Feneva earlier in the year but it's great news that VW will now make us all an EV that means we can keep our passion for the California in the future...

 

[WelshGas]

What extra space? Battery pack raises floor level so may reduce headroom or make vehicle so tall unable to get under 2m barriers..
As this is so far in the future I will continue to enjoy my Cali to the full and see what the future holds as to be honest no one knows.

No Leisure Batteries and there is a surprising amount of space underneath between floorpan and undershield especially if a Hybrid design was developed.

 

[2haw]

I'm out in California at Monterey home of the Pebble Beach Concours d' Elegance and checking out the ID Buzz which is confirmed for production. This is of course the concept car that I saw at Feneva earlier in the year but it's great news that VW will now make us all an EV that means we can keep our passion for the California in the future...

View attachment 24774 View attachment 24775 View attachment 24776 View attachment 24777

How does the size of it compare to the T6?

 

[Days out]

Very similar but no bonnet like a T6...

Here is a photo of me stood next to it...

Sorry about the clash of colour....

 

[WelshGas]

Very similar but no bonnet like a T6...

Here is a photo of me stood next to it...

Sorry about the clash of colour....

View attachment 24781

Bit lower then, unless you're 2m tall.

 

[Borris]

IMO it's no looker. Although the frightful paint combination doesn't help. Others may love it though.