VW T6 & T6.1 motor SCANDAL not yet coming out!

SBswiss

SBswiss

Messages
26
Location
Swizterland
Vehicle
T6 Beach 150
Hi all, I just wanted to inform you that we are having a massive VW scandal here in Switzerland!

A lot of T6 and T6.1 costumers are having problems with the van not starting when it’s cold. It’s a problem in the motor and VW are not communicating on the issue. It’s because there is filings in the motor. VW are asking us 10’000 CHF (around 10.000 Euro) to repair the motor!

Here is a Swiss TV program on the issue: https://www.rts.ch/play/tv/a-bon-en...is-memes-vehicules?urn=urn:rts:video:14856427

I wanted to inform you VW are not taking this issue seriously…
 
Wow, crazy! I’ll speak to my mechanic about this. Happy I have the Car Life Plus full coverage insurance for now!


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Do you know the engine codes that have this problem?

Unfortunately not yet, they said for now I is on last editions of T6 and first editions of T6.1. But to early to know if it is on all T6.1.

It started 4 weeks ago on my T6 Beach 2018 (115’000km). Went to a VW garage, they changed something (I don’t know what…) and it cost me 350.-.
Then next morning it didn’t start, went again and they have put an additive in the Diesel tank saying it will help (cost was 110.-). The guy at the desk told me he is pretty sure it will not help and he sent me to check the Swiss TV link as he was sure I have the same problem! Now waiting for the next time it doesn’t start.

VW told me these two things are a protocol before they start looking more deeply into this "motor" problem.

All VW garages are aware of this problem but they don’t talk about it.

Steven


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I cannot find it in srf.ch though (I don't understand French). Is this a local thing? some garage in Valais screwed up?
 
I cannot find it in srf.ch though (I don't understand French). Is this a local thing? some garage in Valais screwed up?

It’s related to the high pressure fuel pump at cold temperatures. This causes some metal shavings or something to develop and this gets into the pistons. And that’s when the problems begin. Not known if local or more widespread from what I can understand. Going to ask my mechanic when I see him I’m 2 weeks.


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@SBswiss have a word with Sven from https://buel-garage.ch/. If it's a common issue with Calis, he will know about it. He is out on vacation at the moment though, so you may need to wait a couple of weeks.

Might be a long trek for you to take the van there, but I honestly highly recommend it. My van goes nowhere else now
 
@SBswiss have a word with Sven from https://buel-garage.ch/. If it's a common issue with Calis, he will know about it. He is out on vacation at the moment though, so you may need to wait a couple of weeks.

Might be a long trek for you to take the van there, but I honestly highly recommend it. My van goes nowhere else now

Sven is on vacation for the next 2 weeks.


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It’s related to the high pressure fuel pump at cold temperatures. This causes some metal shavings or something to develop and this gets into the pistons. And that’s when the problems begin. Not known if local or more widespread from what I can understand. Going to ask my mechanic when I see him I’m 2 weeks.


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where did you gather that info?

I will see Sven soon as well, so will ask about this too
 
@SBswiss have a word with Sven from https://buel-garage.ch/. If it's a common issue with Calis, he will know about it. He is out on vacation at the moment though, so you may need to wait a couple of weeks.

Might be a long trek for you to take the van there, but I honestly highly recommend it. My van goes nowhere else now

I have asked Amag (VW importer in Switzerland) and the VW garage where I bought my van and they both confirmed they are starting to get a lot of van with this problem.
And the worst thing is… on some vans they repaired (for 10’000 chf) the problem came BACK
 
OK, this may be a dumb question, but is the problem widespread or Switzerland specific?
Seems odd that nobody else is apparently affected, and even if it is cold related you might expect issues to have arisen in Scandinavia.
Anybody?
 
When a HPFP fails, it causes small pieces of swarf (metal splinters) to enter the fuel system under extreme pressure, (20bar) initially the swarf will be carried out of the pump & go to the HP fuel rail, then fuel injectors, before being returned to the fuel tank.

The Fuel filter does not catch the swarf !

The contaminated fuel in the tank is then returned to the HPFP via the lift pump, rinse repeat, whilst the pump grinds itself away.

VW have been aware of this problem for years, they have a special piece of equipment that is loaned to a dealer (from VW) if the dealer suspect HPFP failure. Essentially it is a filter that collects the metal and is visually identifiable.

Poor starting, rough idling, stalling under low revs after starting are two key indicators.

The Mechanic will hook the equipment up-to the van and pump the fuel through the equipment.

If the HPFP is failing, swarf will be observed in the equipment by the mechanic, who will then advise the Fix:

The fix :
Remove all fuel lines - discard and replace with new
Remove fuel tank and lift pump. discard lift pump, wash out fuel tank and replace lift pump
Replace fuel filter
Replace all injectors
Replace HP fuel rail
Remove HPFP discard and replace
(Edit , anything that fuel has touched need to be replaced)

The cost for this in the U.K. was £10k if not carried out under warranty.(I’m sure its probably more now due to parts and Labour increases by VW)

Plenty of info on tinternet regarding Bosch HPFP failing.

I wish you well and hope you’re within warranty
 
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Search the forum for “HPFP” lots to read , I have first hand experience, mine was caught very early by a proactive Master Tech after my Van would not start on two occasions, it was recovered to the Dealer who requested the equipment from VW.
Result / Fix : see post above
 
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OK, this may be a dumb question, but is the problem widespread or Switzerland specific?
Seems odd that nobody else is apparently affected, and even if it is cold related you might expect issues to have arisen in Scandinavia.
Anybody?
I suspect winter fuel additives to stop Diesel sludging in low temperatures in certain countries are a contributing factor.

But it is a a known issue VW HPFP.
 
Sounds like the infamous Audi TFI engine cam follower degradation. The cam follower follows the undulations of the cam lobes. That in term activates the HPFP. In the affected engines the cam wore through the cam follower causing metal shavings to get inside the engine, eventually creating a hole, destroying the HPFP and the top end. Started to throw codes around 60K. Eventually Audi had to extend the warranty to 120K but only intervened if the codes appeared. Required a new camshaft, cam follower and HPFP. It was a total $hit show. My B7 Audi A4 was affected and luckily covered by warranty.
I wonder if that is happening here.
 
When a HPFP fails, it causes small pieces of swarf (metal splinters) to enter the fuel system under extreme pressure, (20bar) initially the swarf will be carried out of the pump & go to the HP fuel rail, then fuel injectors, before being returned to the fuel tank.

The Fuel filter does not catch the swarf !

The contaminated fuel in the tank is then returned to the HPFP via the lift pump, rinse repeat, whilst the pump grinds itself away.

VW have been aware of this problem for years, they have a special piece of equipment that is loaned to a dealer (from VW) if the dealer suspect HPFP failure. Essentially it is a filter that collects the metal and is visually identifiable.

Poor starting, rough idling, stalling under low revs after starting are two key indicators.

The Mechanic will hook the equipment up-to the van and pump the fuel through the equipment.

If the HPFP is failing, swarf will be observed in the equipment by the mechanic, who will then advise the Fix:

The fix :
Remove all fuel lines - discard and replace with new
Remove fuel tank and lift pump. discard lift pump, wash out fuel tank and replace lift pump
Replace fuel filter
Replace all injectors
Replace HP fuel rail
Remove HPFP discard and replace
(Edit , anything that fuel has touched need to be replaced)

The cost for this in the U.K. was £10k if not carried out under warranty.(I’m sure its probably more now due to parts and Labour increases by VW)

Plenty of info on tinternet regarding Bosch HPFP failing.

I wish you well and hope you’re within warranty
I assume an oil analysis would detect the early signs of a problem.
 
I assume an oil analysis would detect the early signs of a problem.
Why? The fuel delivery system and oil system are not connected and the metal particles can only gain access to the engine cylinder via the fuel injectors which would be damaged in the process way before any possible contamination of the engine oil.
 
It's not a VW specific problem.
The usual cause of a HPFP failing is the lack of lubrication additive in the fuel.
The best way of wrecking the pump is to run petrol through it, petrol = zero lubricant = swarf

Thats why if you miss fuel a diesel the last thing you want to do is activate the fuel pump & get petrol circulating in the system. Best thing you can do is get the tank drained before turning on the ignition.


The engine itself should be fine, the swarf particles are too big to go through the injectors, it really is just a change of the complete fuel system thats needed, I know a colleague's insurance payed out about £14k for a new system on an X5 for a missfueling incident.
 
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Why? The fuel delivery system and oil system are not connected and the metal particles can only gain access to the engine cylinder via the fuel injectors which would be damaged in the process way before any possible contamination of the engine oil.
If oil can make its way into the combustion chamber and fine metal particulates are also being deposited in there, then I wouldn't be surprised to see trace metal in the engine oil.
 
Sounds like the infamous Audi TFI engine cam follower degradation. The cam follower follows the undulations of the cam lobes. That in term activates the HPFP. In the affected engines the cam wore through the cam follower causing metal shavings to get inside the engine, eventually creating a hole, destroying the HPFP and the top end. Started to throw codes around 60K. Eventually Audi had to extend the warranty to 120K but only intervened if the codes appeared. Required a new camshaft, cam follower and HPFP. It was a total $hit show. My B7 Audi A4 was affected and luckily covered by warranty.
I wonder if that is happening here.


Doesn't sound anything at all like that - The Audi problem was worn components that drive the fuel pump, those components were lubricated by engine oil & the metal that was worn off the cam followers then circulated round the engine damaging the bearings.

The VW problem is the internals of the fuel pump disintegrating due to insufficient lubrication, all the contamination is contained within the fuel system.
 
If oil can make its way into the combustion chamber and fine metal particulates are also being deposited in there, then I wouldn't be surprised to see trace metal in the engine oil.

Nothing is getting into the combustion chamber. It's all in the fuel system.
 
The fuel system and swarf contained within are totally disconnected from the engine oil.
When a HPFP fails, injectors clog up with the minute swarf shards, if such a small amount (which it can’t) were to enter the combustion chamber I doubt it would cause an issue.
The Injector picks up the contamination and clog, hence poor starting and rough idling etc as a consequence.
the issue occurs as a result of the metal swarf recirculating and causing more and more issues within the fuel system via clogging of injectors and wear to the the HPFP.
Clogged injectors will not operate correctly and essentially prevent further issues by preventing the engine operation.

Edit; engine oil contains shards of metal by the very nature of how a combustion engine works and what oil is used for. engine oil is designed to hold a certain amount of metal contamination material (not just metal) Which is one of the reasons why engine oil should be changed regularly. Metal in oil is a normal occurrence for internal combustion engines. (Oil helps reduce engine wear, but does not negate it)
 
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