When did you last need your diff lock?

[bvddobb]

My experience is the more you can reduce wheel spin the better

In general, very true. Yet this is the 'common 4x4 knowledge' we found the hardest to learn to let go of in the 4M, coming from a Landy.

You more or less have to learn to trust and let the system control the spin. Since the 4M system basically only kicks in at a certain speed difference between front and rear axle, i.e. at a certain slippage, we had to learn to drive just a tad 'bolder' in our 4M than we would have in our Landy. There indeed you sort of try to drive just below the point where wheels start to slip, and when you start to slip you throttle down, in the 4M you drive at a speed just at/a little above where the wheels start to slip, and with a little slippage you just DON'T throttle down immediately but let the system kick in and help you.
It took us some time in our first off-road course with our 4M to become comfortable with this difference in approach, it felt very much counter-intuitive, coming from a 'classic' mechanical 4x4. We learned there that when we had a very slippery climb, and a Landy or other mechanical 4x4 in front of us slowed down, we had to just carry on and overtake, or we would get to a stand still on the slope. Since then, we got the hang of it.

Having said that, in our Pyrenees trip in 2019 there were stretches where we wished we would have been able to go slower...

 

[Tarquers]

In general, very true. Yet this is the 'common 4x4 knowledge' we found the hardest to learn to let go of in the 4M, coming from a Landy.

You more or less have to learn to trust and let the system control the spin. Since the 4M system basically only kicks in at a certain speed difference between front and rear axle, i.e. at a certain slippage, we had to learn to drive just a tad 'bolder' in our 4M than we would have in our Landy. There indeed you sort of try to drive just below the point where wheels start to slip, and when you start to slip you throttle down, in the 4M you drive at a speed just at/a little above where the wheels start to slip, and with a little slippage you just DON'T throttle down immediately but let the system kick in and help you.
It took us some time in our first off-road course with our 4M to become comfortable with this difference in approach, it felt very much counter-intuitive, coming form a 'classic' mechanical 4x4. We learned there that when we had a very slippery climb, and a Landy or other mechanical 4x4 in front of us slowed down, we had to just carry on and overtake, or we would get to a stand still on the slope. Since then, we got the hang of it.

Having said that, in our Pyrenees trip in 2019 there were stretches where we wished we would have been able to go slower...

I look forward to learning the capabilities. I have a Jeep Wrangler rubicon which has a very low low range (crawls about 1 mph) and is amazing with all lockers engaged but let down by the auto box. I suspect (hope) the locker performance will solve the speed problem you describe, not long until I can find out.

 

[Herman]

In general, very true. Yet this is the 'common 4x4 knowledge' we found the hardest to learn to let go of in the 4M, coming from a Landy.

You more or less have to learn to trust and let the system control the spin. Since the 4M system basically only kicks in at a certain speed difference between front and rear axle, i.e. at a certain slippage, we had to learn to drive just a tad 'bolder' in our 4M than we would have in our Landy. There indeed you sort of try to drive just below the point where wheels start to slip, and when you start to slip you throttle down, in the 4M you drive at a speed just at/a little above where the wheels start to slip, and with a little slippage you just DON'T throttle down immediately but let the system kick in and help you.
It took us some time in our first off-road course with our 4M to become comfortable with this difference in approach, it felt very much counter-intuitive, coming form a 'classic' mechanical 4x4. We learned there that when we had a very slippery climb, and a Landy or other mechanical 4x4 in front of us slowed down, we had to just carry on and overtake, or we would get to a stand still on the slope. Since then, we got the hang of it.

Having said that, in our Pyrenees trip in 2019 there were stretches where we wished we would have been able to go slower...

Fantastic!
at last, someone who knows what he is talking about. The Cali is not a Landrover with beds and a cooker in it.
Thank you bvddobb.

 

[Velma's Dad]

In general, very true. Yet this is the 'common 4x4 knowledge' we found the hardest to learn to let go of in the 4M, coming from a Landy.

You more or less have to learn to trust and let the system control the spin. Since the 4M system basically only kicks in at a certain speed difference between front and rear axle, i.e. at a certain slippage, we had to learn to drive just a tad 'bolder' in our 4M than we would have in our Landy. There indeed you sort of try to drive just below the point where wheels start to slip, and when you start to slip you throttle down, in the 4M you drive at a speed just at/a little above where the wheels start to slip, and with a little slippage you just DON'T throttle down immediately but let the system kick in and help you.
It took us some time in our first off-road course with our 4M to become comfortable with this difference in approach, it felt very much counter-intuitive, coming form a 'classic' mechanical 4x4. We learned there that when we had a very slippery climb, and a Landy or other mechanical 4x4 in front of us slowed down, we had to just carry on and overtake, or we would get to a stand still on the slope. Since then, we got the hang of it.

Having said that, in our Pyrenees trip in 2019 there were stretches where we wished we would have been able to go slower...

Thanks, a very good explainer of the difference between 'traditional' and 'modern' off road vehicle characteristics and driving styles.

P.S. on a very challenging section, especially with a big drop-off involved, I still know which style of vehicle I'd rather be driving. Old school!

 

[bvddobb]

P.S. on a very challenging section, especially with a big drop-off involved, I still know which style of vehicle I'd rather be driving. Old school!

Ha, ha, don't be a sissy! You mean stretches like these? Yet this is all just us in our Cali, last summer (not very slippery, admitted ):

 

[bvddobb]

I look forward to learning the capabilities.

If you really want to learn something about driving a 4M van, we can recommend the Seikel VW Transporter 4Motion Off-road Festival, each year in Germany. We have posted about it before, we have learned a lot there. See here for an impression when we were there (also see us end up completely helpless, flat on our belly on the sand, with all 4 wheels spinning - there's no diff lock that will help you out there )

 

[bvddobb]

The Cali is not a Landrover with beds and a cooker in it.

No, but it will still take you a looong way! Don't over-, but also don't under-estimate its capabilities.

 

[Tarquers]

If you really want to learn something about driving a 4M van, we can recommend the Seikel VW Transporter 4Motion Off-road Festival, each year in Germany. We have posted about it before, we have learned a lot there. See here for an impression when we were there (also see us end up completely helpless, flat on our belly on the sand, with all 4 wheels spinning - there's no diff lock that will help you out there )

I know all about getting stuck!

 

[paradise city]

If you really want to learn something about driving a 4M van, we can recommend the Seikel VW Transporter 4Motion Off-road Festival, each year in Germany. We have posted about it before, we have learned a lot there. See here for an impression when we were there (also see us end up completely helpless, flat on our belly on the sand, with all 4 wheels spinning - there's no diff lock that will help you out there )

That looks like great craic! I'd love to do something like that (in someone else's van!).

Sent from my CLT-L09 using Tapatalk

 

[The Merle]

Used diff lock on old Cali to get out of this amazing spot (was a bog).
No diff lock on joker (didn’t spec van), have added on my new ordered van. Like someone said if you are ordering your dream van then why not for the small cost (just wangle an extra 1% discount).

 

[bvddobb]

why not for the small cost (just wangle an extra 1% discount).

 

[Tarquers]

Fantastic!
at last, someone who knows what he is talking about. The Cali is not a Landrover with beds and a cooker in it.
Thank you bvddobb.

and thank goodness the Cali is not. An overpriced, poorly built, cramped, uncomfortable stain on automotive history. No wonder there are so many ex defender owners in this group!

 

[B J G]

Just been idly checking the Kombi Config and found the Diff Lock is a £666 option, Cali £750. Grand Cali £696

Says a lot about VW Cali pricing.

 

[The Merle]

Just been idly checking the Kombi Config and found the Diff Lock is a £666 option, Cali £750.

Says a lot about VW Cali pricing.

Is the kombi plus vat?

 

[B J G]

Is the kombi plus vat?

Said incl. But might mix an e with an i. Did look twice though.

 

[Velma's Dad]

and thank goodness the Cali is not. An overpriced, poorly built, cramped, uncomfortable stain on automotive history. No wonder there are so many ex defender owners in this group!

Fighting talk! Although I am inclined to agree. The Landys have never been reliable. I knew someone who commanded some of the Sultan of Oman's forces in the 1990s. He made it a standing order that all patrols up onto the jebel should comprise a Land Rover plus a Toyota Land Cruiser. The Land Cruiser was there to tow the Land Rover back.

I rallied the Air Portable Land Rovers a bit during the 1980s. Got fed up with all the broken half shafts and gearboxes. Ended one rally with the gear lever, which had actually snapped off, replaced by a pair of mole grips.

 

[soulstyledevon]

Fighting talk! Although I am inclined to agree. The Landys have never been reliable. I knew someone who commanded some of the Sultan of Oman's forces in the 1990s. He made it a standing order that all patrols up onto the jebel should comprise a Land Rover plus a Toyota Land Cruiser. The Land Cruiser was there to tow the Land Rover back.

I rallied the Air Portable Land Rovers a bit during the 1980s. Got fed up with all the broken half shafts and gearboxes. Ended one rally with the gear lever, which had actually snapped off, replaced by a pair of mole grips.

Defenders must be one of the most uncomfortable vehicles I’ve ever sat in.
I was in Tanzania in 2012 and the locals laughed at anyone with a Landy.
It was all about the Toyota Land Cruiser.
Wow do they have a hard life out there...

 

[Tarquers]

Defenders must be one of the most uncomfortable vehicles I’ve ever sat in.
I was in Tanzania in 2012 and the locals laughed at anyone with a Landy.
It was all about the Toyota Land Cruiser.
Wow do they have a hard life out there...

Yeah but the owners are even more fanatical than Cali owners!

 

[B J G]

Fighting talk! Although I am inclined to agree. The Landys have never been reliable. I knew someone who commanded some of the Sultan of Oman's forces in the 1990s. He made it a standing order that all patrols up onto the jebel should comprise a Land Rover plus a Toyota Land Cruiser. The Land Cruiser was there to tow the Land Rover back.

I rallied the Air Portable Land Rovers a bit during the 1980s. Got fed up with all the broken half shafts and gearboxes. Ended one rally with the gear lever, which had actually snapped off, replaced by a pair of mole grips.

Aussies say that you can take a Land-rover into the Outback but if you want to return you go in a Toyota.

 

[Calimili]

It came in VERY useful in this situation...View attachment 74301View attachment 74302View attachment 74303

Which happily led to this the following morning...the only thing I had wished I had in hindsight was a raised suspension...

Since there's so many offroad experts on this thread , I was wandering, if it could have been a reasonable idea to get out of a situation like on the pics above by using the level ramps if available, as you would use maxtrax on a 4x4?

 

[Tarquers]

Since there's so many offroad experts on this thread , I was wandering, if it could have been a reasonable idea to get out of a situation like on the pics above by using the level ramps if available, as you would use maxtrax on a 4x4?

Suspect levelling ramps may not spread the load well enough to to reduce ground pressure, it’s only a bad idea if it doesn’t work!

 

[B J G]

carpet is a good item to get out of a sticky situation, might not be appreciated by the 'housekeeper' as her carefully sourced floor mat disappears in mud.

 

[soulstyledevon]

carpet is a good item to get out of a sticky situation, might not be appreciated by the 'housekeeper' as her carefully sourced floor mat disappears in mud.

I helped some Frenchmen a couple of years ago at La Plagne with this trick.

 

[Calimili]

carpet is a good item to get out of a sticky situation, might not be appreciated by the 'housekeeper' as her carefully sourced floor mat disappears in mud.

Here in Germany, for us former 3 series BMW owners, it was standard practice to use the floor mats to get unstuck in snow/ice. So I thought if you could get on a leveling ramp, you may gain enough momentum to get out..

 

[Maeve]

Since there's so many offroad experts on this thread , I was wandering, if it could have been a reasonable idea to get out of a situation like on the pics above by using the level ramps if available, as you would use maxtrax on a 4x4?

I had thought about the leveling ramps at one point but the ground was to saturated from Storm Francis that had come through about 4 days earlier and I needed to make it up the incline...What I did take away from the experience though that a Winch is a solid idea for situations such as that and now have one properly fitted.