Which Type of Tyre Pressure Monitoring System?

[Batmobile]

Does anyone know whether the T6 Calis use the indirect (ABS based) pressure monitoring system, or the direct kind, which requires TMPS sensors in each wheel?

I ask because I am considering wheel and tyre options and want to know if I will need a complete set of additional TMPS valves should I but an additional set of winter rims + tyres.

Sounds like the direct system is a pain in the bottom. More expense with having to purchase a second set of TPMS monitoring valves and then ensuring the vehicle reads them etc.

 

[sidepod]

Blimey. I never realised it was so crucial for road use.

Do I need TPMS in my camping life?

 

[WelshGas]

Does anyone know whether the T6 Calis use the indirect (ABS based) pressure monitoring system, or the direct kind, which requires TMPS sensors in each wheel?

I ask because I am considering wheel and tyre options and want to know if I will need a complete set of additional TMPS valves should I but an additional set of winter rims + tyres.

Sounds like the direct system is a pain in the bottom. More expense with having to purchase a second set of TPMS monitoring valves and then ensuring the vehicle reads them etc.

If it is Standard, which I think it is ( maybe even an EU requirement ) then I cannot see VW changing from the system used on the T5.1 i.e.: ABS monitoring.

 

[GrannyJen]

I use the very nice man in my local garage ...

"good morning Ted, how's the new baby? Can I have one of those bags of minstrels please and oh.... I don't suppose whilst you at it ... my tyres?... are they ok?"......

 

[WelshGas]

Wait for the "bong" and flashing symbol on the dashboard.

 

[Batmobile]

It is not about whether you want or need it. It's about the law, which few drivers are aware of.

Since some time in 2014 all new UK registered vehicles must have a Tyre Pressure Monitoring System (TPMS) and it being in working order is a MOT requirement. Any fitter changing tyres or wheels is legally obliged to check it is in working order.

'Indirect' TPMS systems run off the ABS system (measuring rotation speed and thus volume and pressure) and do not use individual transmitter valves in each wheel. 'Direct' systems require a transmitter valve in each wheel. If the T6 has a direct system (and it sounds like it does not), a set of winter wheels means a second set of sensors inside, which adds 150-200 quid to the price. There is nothing to explicitly state that the owner cannot leave out the TPMS sensors from their wheels, but this is not as simple as it sounds - read on.

For all vehicles fitted with direct TPMS it is illegal for the tyre fitters to mount tyres/rims without sensors in the wheels. It is illegal to turn off the TPMS warning system. You could buy wheels and tyres complete (without TPMS valves) off the internet, but then you would have the darned warning light going off all the time because it cannot detect a reading from the wheels. Annoying to say the least.

I have read that in some vehicles, if a direct TPMS system cannot detect a reading and therefore it 'alerts', this also affects the traction control system making driving on snow and ice very difficult (which after all, is the opposite of the reason why you bought that second set of rims and winter tyres)!

So... this is a big topic for people with direct TPMS in their vehicles. If you switch winter tyres onto your summer rims (with TPMS valves inside), there is a high incidence of TPMS valve breakage and it gets expensive changing tyres twice a year on top of replacement TPMS sensors. Additionally, the vehicle will not always recognise the second set and each time the wheels are changed, you may have to re-synch the car and wheels. This means that even if you switch at home, you may need an additional device to synch the vehicle system and TPMS valves inside the wheels. the vehicle not recognising one or more previously used TPMS valves appears to be routine.

I dearly hope the T6 uses the indirect ABS based system, because this saves money and a whole bunch of hassle.

Chances are that if the vehicle tells you which tyre has which pressure, it is a direct system. If it just gives a warning symbol and you need to figure out the problem, it is probably the less accurate but much less complex indirect system that uses the ABS sensors and does not need these TPMS sensor valves in each wheel.

Just google TPMS winter wheels and see all the frustrated owners annoyed to hell about the cost of additional TPMS valves, replacing broken valves, having synch issues and warning symbols blinking. Sounds like a royal PITA to me...

So there ya go! Now you understand why I wanted to know what kind of TPMS system is in the T6 due to my interest in a second set of winter wheels. Indirect = nothing to be done. Direct = another 200 quid and lots of hassle.

 

[sidepod]

So are you saying ABS can detect a change in rolling radius due to loss of pressure?
What is the range of measurement on that?
Sounds a bit corse ?

 

[Californiaman]

Its wheel rotation speed that changes , I believe.

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk

 

[sidepod]

Its wheel rotation speed that changes , I believe.

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk

....due to change in rolling radius, caused by pressure loss.
The part I can't quite get my head around is, for one wheel to be rotating slower than all the others at a given road speed, then it must be in a skid condition, all be it, by a small amount.
Hence the reason I'm questioning the tolerance of the system.

 

[sidepod]

Here we go. Indirect = 25% loss detection rate. You could probably notice 25% by looking at the van!!

http://www.tpmsmadesimple.com/how_tpms_works.php

 

[CYCLOPATH]

Wow, thanks for that info Tom. This is why I joined the forum, I didn't even know I didn't know that.

 

[snowy55]

Here we go. Indirect = 25% loss detection rate. You could probably notice 25% by looking at the van!!

http://www.tpmsmadesimple.com/how_tpms_works.php

Not when driving on a motorway at 70 mph!!

 

[WelshGas]

Here we go. Indirect = 25% loss detection rate. You could probably notice 25% by looking at the van!!

http://www.tpmsmadesimple.com/how_tpms_works.php

I think the later Indirect TPMS is a little more accurate than 25%.
The underinflated wheel has a smaller rolling radius so has a higher rotational speed.
I read somewhere, but could be wrong, that it would register a 10% change from the reset position.

 

[briwy]

It is not about whether you want or need it. It's about the law, which few drivers are aware of.

Since some time in 2014 all new UK registered vehicles must have a Tyre Pressure Monitoring System (TPMS) and it being in working order is a MOT requirement. Any fitter changing tyres or wheels is legally obliged to check it is in working order.

'Indirect' TPMS systems run off the ABS system (measuring rotation speed and thus volume and pressure) and do not use individual transmitter valves in each wheel. 'Direct' systems require a transmitter valve in each wheel. If the T6 has a direct system (and it sounds like it does not), a set of winter wheels means a second set of sensors inside, which adds 150-200 quid to the price. There is nothing to explicitly state that the owner cannot leave out the TPMS sensors from their wheels, but this is not as simple as it sounds - read on.

For all vehicles fitted with direct TPMS it is illegal for the tyre fitters to mount tyres/rims without sensors in the wheels. It is illegal to turn off the TPMS warning system. You could buy wheels and tyres complete (without TPMS valves) off the internet, but then you would have the darned warning light going off all the time because it cannot detect a reading from the wheels. Annoying to say the least.

I have read that in some vehicles, if a direct TPMS system cannot detect a reading and therefore it 'alerts', this also affects the traction control system making driving on snow and ice very difficult (which after all, is the opposite of the reason why you bought that second set of rims and winter tyres)!

So... this is a big topic for people with direct TPMS in their vehicles. If you switch winter tyres onto your summer rims (with TPMS valves inside), there is a high incidence of TPMS valve breakage and it gets expensive changing tyres twice a year on top of replacement TPMS sensors. Additionally, the vehicle will not always recognise the second set and each time the wheels are changed, you may have to re-synch the car and wheels. This means that even if you switch at home, you may need an additional device to synch the vehicle system and TPMS valves inside the wheels. the vehicle not recognising one or more previously used TPMS valves appears to be routine.

I dearly hope the T6 uses the indirect ABS based system, because this saves money and a whole bunch of hassle.

Chances are that if the vehicle tells you which tyre has which pressure, it is a direct system. If it just gives a warning symbol and you need to figure out the problem, it is probably the less accurate but much less complex indirect system that uses the ABS sensors and does not need these TPMS sensor valves in each wheel.

Just google TPMS winter wheels and see all the frustrated owners annoyed to hell about the cost of additional TPMS valves, replacing broken valves, having synch issues and warning symbols blinking. Sounds like a royal PITA to me...

So there ya go! Now you understand why I wanted to know what kind of TPMS system is in the T6 due to my interest in a second set of winter wheels. Indirect = nothing to be done. Direct = another 200 quid and lots of hassle.

Yet more big brother and something else to go wrong and fail the MOT.

 

[Angus Morgan]

The part I can't quite get my head around is, for one wheel to be rotating slower than all the others at a given road speed, then it must be in a skid condition, all be it, by a small amount.

That's why there is a differential, it allows the wheels to rotate at different speeds to account for small differences in rolling radius etc, and also the speed differential when cornering.

The ABS sensors are very high resolution rotary encoders, that measure the rotational speed of each wheel very accurately.

 

[Batmobile]

It's a pleasure. Neither did I until yesterday evening I was looking up wheels and tyres online and noticed the online packages asking me if I wanted to add these hitherto unknown things called 'TPMS valves'.... at £169!

Wow, thanks for that info Tom. This is why I joined the forum, I didn't even know I didn't know that.

 

[Batmobile]

I have seen some users reporting indirect TPMS (via ABS system) being quite pernickety about tyre pressure and giving a warning when deviating only a few bar from correct pressure, so clearly the sensitivity can be pretty high. That said, I understand the idea behind the system is to alert the driver when there is serious under-pressure of the kind that could cause or contribute to an accident. The direct systems are extremely accurate and can give a real-time readout of pressure and temperature.

The grumble about sensitive indirect systems is that they do not tell you which tyre is at fault, so you have to get out and check each one with a pressure gauge until you find the one that may only be fractionally low. I agree that a less twitchy system is better. I the T5 uses the indirect system, I guess there are plenty of users who would be complaining if it were super sensitive.

 

[jts46]

I use Sainsburys

John

 

[rod_vw]

I have enabled TPMS Indirect on my self-build and fitted the dash mounted reset switch (mid level MFD dash doesn't have inbuilt reset facility). I can confirm that it needs more than 10% variation of tyre pressure to bring up the warning having done some testing of the system after fitting. Enabling the system is a VCDS (Vagcom) job on the ABS unit and the switch is a physical / wiring job.

Those with TPMS should be aware that they should cycle the reset procedure every time they check / correct the tyre pressure whether it be by a MFD procedure of just the dash switch.

For those wondering how it works, as I understand it the ABS monitors, over a specified distance, the comparative rotational speed of each wheel. If one wheel is rotating differently (faster) by an specified value than the memorised speed from the last reset then an alarm is raised.

Rod

 

[Batmobile]

I spoke to VW Preston and they confirmed that the T6 has the ABS based 'indirect' system of TPMS, as per the T5.

 

[debarros]

This thread takes all the fun out of owning a Cali... Get a life guys

 

[Batmobile]

Either did not read the thread, or you did read it all and then took the trouble to explain that other people's efforts to understand a technical issue pertinent to them robs you of California ownership fun, while you are sitting in front of a computer screen reading things that don't interest you. Interesting.

Maybe it would be better to positively contribute to the things that interest you and leave others to the things that interest them.

This thread takes all the fun out of owning a Cali... Get a life guys

 

[WelshGas]

Funny. Never discussed in such detail in the T5 section. Must be a generational thing.

 

[Skinnee D]

I spoke to VW Preston and they confirmed that the T6 has the ABS based 'indirect' system of TPMS, as per the T5.

HI - I'm new to your forum and looking to order a new Ocean soon. I did some digging on this recently as I want to buy a set of 18" Sportline wheels and was concerned that I might have spend a few hundred extra pounds fitting direct TPMS sensors. Anyway I got the same answer as Batmobile - indirect system, so good news. My Mk7 Golf has the indirect system, and with a slow puncture it alerts with a drop of around 8psi or so. Hope this helps.

 

[sidepod]

HI - I'm new to your forum and looking to order a new Ocean soon. I did some digging on this recently as I want to buy a set of 18" Sportline wheels and was concerned that I might have spend a few hundred extra pounds fitting direct TPMS sensors. Anyway I got the same answer as Batmobile - indirect system, so good news. My Mk7 Golf has the indirect system, and with a slow puncture it alerts with a drop of around 8psi or so. Hope this helps.

So as earlier stated, around 25%.

I'd like to think one would be able to feel a 25% pressure loss without a warning light, especially at the front.
It might be pulling to one side don't you think?