Why should we get a Cali ?

[DirkSquareJaw]

Hi Folks,

My wife and I are tempted to get a camper van as we feel it would suit our needs for instant hols and longer tours to ...well ..any where really.

Looking around at the different campers on the market we both agreed the VW California and the Ford Terrier look the best and seem to have all bases covered. I guess we're wondering why we should bother with the VW when the Ford seems to have more kit, is cheaper, has more space, better mpg and nearly looks as good.. well nearly?!

Also what advice would you offer regarding looking at a used California? Are there any engines to avoid, specs and extras that make or potentially ruin the Cali's character? If I'm honest, we do prefer the VW but its a lot of money and we are not exactly rolling in it. It would also have to be used as my daily ride - is this a no no?

Any help, advice and banter would be greatly appreciated,

Dan and Lisa

 

[2into1]

Based on recent residual values, those "not rolling in it" should buy a Cali.

Apart from the monetary arguments, buying the Cali means you are joining 50 years of the VW campervan community and history, which gives a whole different side to ownership and enjoyment.

 

[igmac]

anything else is a compromise! particularly as a daily drive

 

[Kitesurfer]

Hi there Dan & Lisa

We are down sizing from a caravan to a cali beach.

the caravan had every thing you could wish in home comfort, but when you what to move around quickly a day hear a day there its to much of a faf on.

We have looked at motor homes but the size puts us of, because you can no use one of them as an every day car, thats the beauty of the T5 Cali.

Its your every day transport That turns into you motor home as & when you like.

We like you don't have bundles of money to chuck around, but we believe that the cali is good value for money.

Goforit

Terry

 

[Mollen]

Hi,

For me it was the quality of the automotive finish of the Cali that did it. I am very particular and would rather go without than have second rate. I purchased a nearly new in excellent condition to get all the extras I wanted.

To answer your other questions I would say the 180hk for the SE and the 140HK for the beach.
I feel the beach is better as a daily driver as it's lighter.
DSG for me next time I buy one too.
//Mart.

 

[DirkSquareJaw]

Thanks for the replies .

We are going to drive the Ford terrier tomorrow as well as taking a quick peek at Bradford Vw ,who have an se in the show room. Then on Sunday its off to York Vw to test drive the Cali.

The Ford has had rave reviews and my bet is it'll drive better the Vw , the finish won't be on par though..i suspect ?

We're then going to book a weekend in mid Feb and take a Vw for a wee tour (on hire). I'm into bad weather and wind (not personal wind) . If we can enjoy a camper in this misery then we'll be all in

I love the look of the Filey based SE on this site . Looks mint ! Alas the Wife won't commit till we've lived in one . I really hope its still available the end of Feb ...

Dan and Lisa

 

[18hunts]

We seriously considered a Wellhouse Terrier (really not sure about that name) before buying our Cali; demonstrator with 12 miles on the clock!

We were in regular contact with Wellhouse whilst they were building the new model for the NEC show, went to the show and spent over an hour going over in great detail and had a test drive of the Torneo. At the end of driving the Torneo I uttered one word, 'dam' or something similar. I really didn't want to like it but I believe it's a better drive than the T5, Fords are good to drive and we have to remember that it's latest technology while the T5 is not getting but got long in the tooth. I still like driving the Cali though.

The Wellhouse part, not a bad conversion but it's as always a compromise, a case of what you want and will except. Little things soured it for us in line for what we wanted.
Three seater rear seat gives a wider bed (selling feature) but means narrower cabinet furniture resulting in a smaller hob and narrow work surface; whistling kettle and I think you might struggle to get anything else on.
Same size fridge as the Cali but we find we can physically get more into the chest fridge in the Cali.
Table, it's on a swing arm which are not the most stable and is stored on the back of the seat. You need another table if you want to eat outside the van, we always do in France, and you need chairs to sit on. Has no additional chairs so that's something else to carry. I except it's a lot of money to spend on two tables and two chairs which are neatly stowed without using up stowage space. that's always at a premium.
Bike racks, there isn't one at the moment and Wellhouse quoted me a figure to supply and modify a bike rack at £800 to £900.

There were a couple of other little things but you do start nit-picking. I except you could argue that what I have said above could be deemed little things but I come back to what you want and degree of compromise you will except. If you bought the Wellhouse, and the Torneo is a delight to drive, you may well be happy with it but over a longer period it's the little things that start to irritate and aggravate. As always, you pays your money, you make your choice.

 

[18hunts]

Further to my post, 'Management' is now home and reminded me of a major problem. Height.
It's over 2 metres and for us that became a non starter. If you look else-ware on this site you will find lots of chat regarding height.
However, there's always an however, if you have bikes on the back then height becomes an irrelevance.
At the end of the day we are all different, have different needs/wants, what's important etc, what you haver to do is take on-board what is relevant to you, make your choice and enjoy.
Cali or Wellhouse, only you can make that decision. The problem you have is you will only get one side of the argument because there isn't a like forum for Wellhouse Terriers. We are all opinionated and you have to sort the wheat from the chaff. This is a biased forum.
Good luck.

 

[GrannyJen]

When I was making my buying choice last year I looked at this one, and lots and lots of other conversions.

Horses for courses.

Firstly I like the narrower bed and bigger storage of the VW but then most of the time I am not sharing bed space, except when my doggies decide that they prefer to sleep on a bed and not the floor!

Secondly I like the integrated everything of a purpose built manufacturer model, and as far as I know that means Cali and no one else. From past bad experience I simply do not like bolt-on features. If something goes wrong who do I take it back to?

This forum has been called biased and it is, in fact so biased against VW (to a newcomer) that it almost drove me to anywhere but wolfsburg! A natural condition in that anyone with a VW problem comes here to sound off! Reading these forums you would expect to pick up a new vehicle with holes in the roof, a permanently open side door and a crescendo of shake, rattle and roll everytime a gear is changed! Instead what I have found is a complete vehicle, minor niggles, but complete, everything works with each other, everything is integrated with each other, everything is intuitive because all the bits, mechanical and habitation, are put together by one set of people.

I also looked at pricing. By the time I've added a thousand here and a thousand there for awnings, automatics, big engine options, etc. the premium for opting to go for a proven model seemed worth paying for.

Nothing will be perfect and sometimes these forums can read to be a litany of disaster with every cali built, but only natural. Pay £50k plus for a pride and joy that then develops a fault and who wouldn't want to stand up and yell like mad. I'm still an early-days owner but so far, totally absolutely pleased with my choice.

 

[Martin]

Great post Jen and all very true

 

[Kitesurfer]

What Jen has put so well into words is right
You pays your money you get what you pay for, VW for me

Terry

 

[Paul S]

Depends how much store you put into the "daily driver" bit as well. This may far and away outweigh the niggles as the undeniable fact is that the new Transit base is a nicer drive than the T5 as well as much more exonomical to run. That's inevitable really, its much newer and if it wasn't a quantum improvement then Ford would have done a lousy job. They do seem to have got on top of a lot of the quality issues too now so I guess we have to wait and see how well the base vehicle holds up to issues like body rot and so forth. Then again, the T5 whilst in the main OK is not exactly a paragon of reliability as many will reluctantly admit (when pushed). Personally I do think the Ford is a bit pug-like and not the prettiest thing around whereas the T5 particularly the facelift just has a "presence" that lifts it a bit above the herd and for me that's what matters(sad but true).

 

[James]

Depends how much store you put into the "daily driver" bit as well. This may far and away outweigh the niggles as the undeniable fact is that the new Transit base is a nicer drive than the T5 as well as much more exonomical to run. That's inevitable really, its much newer and if it wasn't a quantum improvement then Ford would have done a lousy job. They do seem to have got on top of a lot of the quality issues too now so I guess we have to wait and see how well the base vehicle holds up to issues like body rot and so forth. Then again, the T5 whilst in the main OK is not exactly a paragon of reliability as many will reluctantly admit (when pushed). Personally I do think the Ford is a bit pug-like and not the prettiest thing around whereas the T5 particularly the facelift just has a "presence" that lifts it a bit above the herd and for me that's what matters(sad but true).

I don't personally like the look of the new Transit - it's like a lot of Ford design, trying very hard and way too fussy. No doubt it's going to be a better drive, the T5 roots in design terms go back to the early 2000's. The T5 is starting to become a generation behind its rivals.

On the the plus side, VW builds the T5 with the car market in mind, so when it builds Multivans, they are are a step above and the equipment available to Transporter owners has always being significantly better. Let's remember VW was fitting early sat nav systems to it's T4's at a time when you'd be lucky to able to specify electric windows on your Transit.

Ford have the the mindset that the Transit is a commercial vehicle and nothing else, that may have changed with the new version but VW have always adopted a different philosophy.

That means you may not have the latest drive but you will have something that can still hold its head up and I agree, I think facelift T5's are handsome, there's no fussy design language just a purposeful stance, enhanced more if you have Xenons.

It's a shame the UK doesn't get the full Multivan Dashboard that the LHD vehicles have, that would make a considerable difference to peoples opinions.

James

 

[GrannyJen]

I have no experience of driving vans so cannot compare on the "driveability".

I can compare with a car though.

I read some of the comments above that suggest that the VW is a bit like driving a square-wheeled tractor and it is not the vehicle that I am driving.

To me, it feels no wider than the car I exchanged it for, an X3. The extra length had me clipping a grass verge once or twice but most people where I live are used to wearing steel toecaps when I am driving along.

The RNS510 touchscreen is superb for accessibility and useability of sat nav and entertainment media although in defence I am comparing to BMW I Drive.

I can manouvre it down very narrow roads, as was the case on Albert's maiden voyage, to Cornwall three weeks ago. The steering is gorgeously light without losing precision. It goes where I point it.

All of the rattles are down to stowage, judicious use of tea towels, pillows, bedding etc smothers most.

A brand new engine and I was getting 33mpg compared to 37 mpg on my 4WD exchange vehicle.

I found seating quite comfortable on a 235 mile long haul.

The cali fridge keeps the champagne at a better temperature.

I still think the Wellhouse looks gorgeous, if unsuitable for my needs at present, but a new conversion on a new base vehicle gives me the jitters. I will hold back and let a couple of thousand other people find out the flaws and faults first. At least after three months of reading these forums I knew exactly what I was getting with the cali, warts and all.

I find comments like "the T5 is getting long in the tooth" quite a comfort really when I am to technology what Genghis Khan was to world peace and I need a three foot thick instruction manual just to learn how to open the bonnet.

 

[owen_h]

Interesting the comments about the Transit being a better drive than the T5 as it was a test drive in a Transit van that had me running back to looking at T5s and going for a Beach in the end. I found the ride in the Transit to be terrible on poor quality B roads (and badly maintained A roads). The rear was forever 'jiggling' around and didn't feel controlled at all. The rear suspension of the Transit is leaf spring which I would hardly call cutting edge. Admittedly the one I drove was a panel van version with no weight in the back so maybe the Tourneo version Wellhouse are using is better in this respect. Having said that I have also driven unladen T5 vans and they were fine on the same roads.
My Beach is the only vehicle I have (not really a daily drive as I cycle a lot) and found it very pleasant to drive and live with. The length is no more than current estate cars and with parking sensors good mirrors and a lot of glass its easy to place on the road. The overall width is something to be aware of in narrow roads and I still havent had the nerve to take it under a 2m height barrier. Noise levels in the cabin are low and I drove it to Austria and back last year in more comfort than any car I've had before.
To the OP is it just the full Cali you are looking at? Have you considered a Beach as well, they are less £ than the Terrier.

 

[James]

The other advantage is that California was designed by VW, as good as any aftermarket conversion is, it's still that.... aftermarket...

That doesn't make it a bad vehicle but it means that some of the systems, entertainment - climate - can never be fully integrated - your reliant on what the base vehicle has to offer.

Sometimes an aftermarket conversation is more flexible in what it offers but it was never designed to leave the factory like that. The Califotnia gives you some very nice touches, the Cimtronic system is very good an can be operated separately from the rear, the control panel for the roof and and heater is very smart. It adds to a vehicle that feels like a separate model. I never drive round thinking I am driving a VW T5 or Transporter, I'm driving a California. To me the Terrier is a Transit and no matter what you do, I'd feel like that driving one.

There are niggles with the California but it feels in design terms very complete. That for me would be what convinces me to buy one, I like that feeling.

I am not convinced by current Ford Dashboards, they started it with the Fiesta and said it was designed to be like a mobile phone... I don't want a mobile phone, I want a dashboard, I am 38 years old and need things simply laid out and within reach.

VW's alway feel understated and they don't feel like they are shouting or making a statement, I like that too.

What conversion companies never talk about is the VW Multivans that the Claifornia is based on. VW haven't converted an ordinary van, they've converted a Multivan and that's quite different

James

 

[DirkSquareJaw]

Hi all.

We have just got back from looking at a Cali and then driving the Ford.

Have we considered the Beach, yes but only briefly. I have Cystic Fibrosis and need the fridge to keep some of my meds in as well as needing the hob to boil sterilise my i-neb mouth pieces.

So back to today and the Ford Terrier test drive....dun dun durrrr. Wow! It looks OK but on the test drive you can really tell its a conversion - the rear seat bashed, crashed and rattled like nuts in an empty dust bin. Up close my wife (who's anal) said she hated the fixtures as they reminded her of a caravan! To be fair, it drove well but you do feel like you're driving a van and I couldn't use it as a daily drive - its just not practical enough. It had 6k on the clock and it felt like every thing was loose, we also noted the table was delaminating at the corners already... . Lisa made the comment that she wouldn't spend 10k on it let alone 40!!

Can't wait to try the Cali now.

 

[Fishyboy]

Hello,

We bought a new Cali in Sept 2013, came from 10years of caravaning.
You should buy a Cali because they are ACE!!!
Ours(Olive) make me,wife and 2 kids feel special everytime we use it, which is everyday.

Cheers Fishy

 

[DirkSquareJaw]

Hi,
Just browsing over the site for potential problems and pit falls, after all we're taking a lot of money here. I couldn't help but notice that there seems to be a major issue with paint work.
If we do go for a Cali we'd like to avoid this as I've had rubbish service from VW Leeds in the past with a Golf, had to get rid of it in the end due to the pathetic service and a recurring fault. So are the 2013 and onward Californias sorted?

 

[GrannyJen]

Hi all.

We have just got back from looking at a Cali and then driving the Ford.

Have we considered the Beach, yes but only briefly. I have Cystic Fibrosis and need the fridge to keep some of my meds in as well as needing the hob to boil sterilise my i-neb mouth pieces.

So back to today and the Ford Terrier test drive....dun dun durrrr. Wow! It looks OK but on the test drive you can really tell its a conversion - the rear seat bashed, crashed and rattled like nuts in an empty dust bin. Up close my wife (who's anal) said she hated the fixtures as they reminded her of a caravan! To be fair, it drove well but you do feel like you're driving a van and I couldn't use it as a daily drive - its just not practical enough. It had 6k on the clock and it felt like every thing was loose, we also noted the table was delaminating at the corners already... . Lisa made the comment that she wouldn't spend 10k on it let alone 40!!

Can't wait to try the Cali now.

I have tried to be as neutral and un-partisan as possible in my comments.

I came to the exact same conclusions in Octobrr after tryong out dozens of conversions.

The rest are only conversions. The cali is the real deal. Seriously, on the road, it is the best, by fsr.

Good luck. Enjoy.


Jen

 

[owen_h]

The issue with paintwork bubbling on the elevating roof does now seem to have been sorted by VW on new (since about mid 2013) vehicles. They have (I believe) added a gasket to isolate the aluminium roof from the steel bodywork to prevent the problem.
There are options out there to add basic cooking/water heating facilities and a fridge to the Beach versions. Some people including me have made a kitchen pod and there is are 'off the shelf' versions from the likes of Maxxcamp (link on the home page of this site). Admittedly in the case of Maxxcamp their 'shelf' is in Germany. VW do a thermoelectric coolbox or you can get a compressor driven coolbox from the likes of Waeco or Vitrafrigo. Not cheap but these use exactly the same technology as the full cali fridge.

 

[Barryjm]

Old Fords look dated, old VWs look like classics. Oh but I am so biased


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[Ambler]

Like Gran we too had our doubts, especially about the roof. (corroding metal and it does not seem to be fully waterproof when popped up).
However after viewing various conversions (including one which had just won "campervan of the year") we came to the conclusion that the installation of the fitments and the value of the spec. on offer are so much better on the Cali. Also, with these conversions it depends where you live. The one that caught our eye is supplied from Sussex, which is a long way from us. Any problems with the actual vehicle and it goes back to vw, any with fitments back to Sussex. Could only see problems with this.
All of this is theoretical as we have yet to take delivery of our Cali and the pudding is yet to be eaten to provide the proof.

 

[Freeley]

As mentioned by others, for me the fact that if any part of your cali goes wrong you take it back to your local dealer swings it for me.
When my mother in law's autosleeper developed a paint fault on the roof (see it's not just cali's!) We had to take it to Gloucester to be fixed which is a long way from us in devon and was a major inconvenience.
So as good as the terrier looks this would be a major concern for me.

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[DirkSquareJaw]

Popped over to York today and drove a 180 manual. It was in totally different league .
There is no chance we'll consider any thing else! We just have to hire one for a few days and then make a final decision.
They are mind bogglingly expensive at the dealers. So, how have people found buying them used from a private owner?
I always get the impression that they're sold just before the 1st mot and not long before the warranty expires. This would indicate low confidence in reliability - 'we've had our fun. Lets unload so some one else picks up the bill/faults', seller culture.

I'd like folks honest experiences with buying used, trade included. Good and bad.