Any ideas - Eberspacher?

[dayslikethis]

I have previous threads on this ( since August) but this is just to post a quick summary to see if anyone has any ideas;

Aux Heater stopped working with the wording "Heater not possible" on the Cali control panels. Vehicle now at its 3rd VW garage to try and resolve. To date:

1. Control Panel reset done
2. Fuses checked
3. Vents checked
4. New fuel pump fitted
5. 2 x donor heaters fitted, both started and run for about 5 minutes before cutting out.
6. Wiring loom checked
7. Control panel module checked
8. Donor Cali Control panel tried and failed to make any difference
9. Eberspacher specialist consulted
10. Voltage flows OK

Something is causing the aux heater to cut out but no fault code is registered. Vehicle still at garage - technician trying his best and all options including calls to VW technical.

Grateful for any last minute suggestions.

 

[Abnomynous]

I presume fuel flow was checked during the fuel pump replacement, so guess that's out of the picture.
Also the classical "earth shunt" making bad contact and thus causing voltage drops during high loads?

Could it be:
1: A faulty reading form a termostat controlling the cycling of the heater?
Or maybe
2; Airflow restrictions, either to or from the heater?
3: Exhaust blockage?

It is in my experience more often something small interconnecting the expensive bits than the actual components being faulty.
Good luck, hope you find the fault and please report back. Interesting to see what the culprit was.

 

[dayslikethis]

Many thanks - I'll feed this to the technician who is currently trying to resolve, not too clear about the earth shunt issue as I thought this was related to older models. Mine is 2014. Thanks again I will certainly keep you posted. You may see from previous posts that I hd not used the heater for almost 10 months and I've since found out that Eber recommend its run for 10 minutes every month

 

[Abnomynous]

You're very welcome.
I have a vague memory of reading that the earth shunt issue is supposed to be corrected after 2009, but all connections have a tendency to corrode, so you never know.
For example: The "camper electrics" under the drivers seat and sink have substandard soldered parallell interconnections between wirings (please excuse my poor vocabulary) from the factory, that i had to go through this spring when NOTHING camper related worked after the winters rest.

Does the heater start if you bypass the control panel or give it independent 12v? If so, you have valuable information and can at the same time see if there is any earth shunt issue by the reading lights flickering during heater start up. Or by just connecting a volt meter.

 

[Andy]

Many thanks - I'll feed this to the technician who is currently trying to resolve, not too clear about the earth shunt issue as I thought this was related to older models. Mine is 2014. Thanks again I will certainly keep you posted. You may see from previous posts that I hd not used the heater for almost 10 months and I've since found out that Eber recommend its run for 10 minutes every month

As this is a 2014 cali the earth shunt problem will not affect it.
I'd be tempted to take it to an eberspatcher agent.

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

 

[sidepod]

Can your man, at the very least, establish if it’s fuel or electrical?

Once this is confirmed we may have a chance of diagnosis.

 

[dayslikethis]

Can your man, at the very least, establish if it’s fuel or electrical?

Once this is confirmed we may have a chance of diagnosis.

To date, at first they thought was fuel so replaced the fuel pump, he told me this morning that once that was done there was evidence of fuel being supplied. My thoughts are that its electrical. The technician is now going back to VW Technical for suggestions. Sorry I can't provide any more info. but will certainly add to this thread if I get any. I have summarised the above comments and sent to him since starting this thread today. Appreciate your help thanks.
I took a photo of the heater this morning - doesn't help but here it is should anyone not have seen one before

 

[sidepod]

Well if he’s changed all the kit you listed then it’s clearly an installation/vehicle issue.

As suggested in this thread, bypass the supply and see if it will run.

You say it runs for five mins. Does it start to produce heat or just cold air?
If so it suggests the glow plug is faulty.
This is easy to test by removing it and powering it up. It gets very hot very quickly!

A failed start will cause shutdown.

Again, power up the glow plug independently and see if it will run.

So many possibilities!

The fuel pump can be operated without the controller simply by touching a live supply on and off like a metronome,
Again this will prove the control module.

 

[dayslikethis]

Well if he’s changed all the kit you listed then it’s clearly an installation/vehicle issue.

As suggested in this thread, bypass the supply and see if it will run.

You say it runs for five mins. Does it start to produce heat or just cold air?
If so it suggests the glow plug is faulty.
This is easy to test by removing it and powering it up. It gets very hot very quickly!

A failed start will cause shutdown.

Again, power up the glow plug independently and see if it will run.

So many possibilities!

The fuel pump can be operated without the controller simply by touching a live supply on and off like a metronome,
Again this will prove the control module.

Many thanks very interesting. Re the fuel pump yes thats how I believe he operated it. Grateful for your continued input.

 

[owen_h]

I had a Webasto retrofitted and 6 mth later had an issue where:
Fan would come on and blow cold air
Heater would try and ignite but fail
I could hear the fuel pump 'clicking'
After ~ 5 mins it would give up and shut down the fan
In my case It did report an error message, related to fuel supply.

Turned out that the 'professional' installer had routed the fuel supply pipe over the engine preheater exhaust and that had melted the fuel pipe to the air heater.
As yours is the genuine VW fit I wouldnt expect the fuel supply pipe to have melted but maybe there is an obstruction in in ? As asked above is the heater firing up to give you hot air for the 5 mins it is running, do you get smoke out of the heater exhaust?
Other possibility that comes to mind is if there is some form of overheat protection that is kicking in when it shouldnt be? Maybe a faulty sensor that thinks the heater is getting to hot?

Hope they can identity and fix quickly.

 

[briwy]

Don't know if this is any help but a copy of the Eberspacher manual here. This of course refers to the Eberspacer controls which the Cali doesn't have.
It would be a lot simpler if VW dumped the control panel and had separate controls for each item.
Good luck with it.

 

[dayslikethis]

Don't know if this is any help but a copy of the Eberspacher manual here. This of course refers to the Eberspacer controls which the Cali doesn't have.
It would be a lot simpler if VW dumped the control panel and had separate controls for each item.
Good luck with it.

Many thanks - appreciated.

 

[dayslikethis]

Just had a call from VW - it seems it's fixed!!!!
After 25 hours labour and the fitting and subsequent removal of donor parts to test the system with no positive result a very experienced technician was allocated the job last Monday and he's found the fault. It seems it was to do with a Cobra tracking system which in his view had been retrofitted and not correctly connected. The Cobra system was a VW marketed and fitted VW install at purchase from new. Not quite sure how this was interfering with the circuit and will get full details tomorrow when I collect the van. Massive relief on my part and many many thanks to the forum for all the help along the way!

(Only a week ago the garage telephoned me to say I should take the vehicle back as they had failed. I had told them to keep trying!)

 

[Abnomynous]

Happy to hear its solved!
More details are always welcome.
Enjoy the sweet heater during these autumn days.

 

[WelshGas]

Just had a call from VW - it seems it's fixed!!!!
After 25 hours labour and the fitting and subsequent removal of donor parts to test the system with no positive result a very experienced technician was allocated the job last Monday and he's found the fault. It seems it was to do with a Cobra tracking system which in his view had been retrofitted and not correctly connected. The Cobra system was a VW marketed and fitted VW install at purchase from new. Not quite sure how this was interfering with the circuit and will get full details tomorrow when I collect the van. Massive relief on my part and many many thanks to the forum for all the help along the way!

(Only a week ago the garage telephoned me to say I should take the vehicle back as they had failed. I had told them to keep trying!)

Good news. Who is paying? VW I trust.

 

[sidepod]

WTAF?

 

[dayslikethis]

WTAF?

I've got a feeling that your 'bypass the supply suggestion' may have helped identify / resolve this. I'll let you know once I've met with them tomorrow!

 

[dayslikethis]

Well I have the van back and the heater is working - result !
A summary since problem identified in August
1. VW Dealer no 1 = 4 hours, not fixed
2. VW Dealer no 2 = 4 hours, not fixed
3. VW Dealer No 3 = 25 hours - fixed
Problem was electrical - identified as poor/incorrect cable connection from new when VW Cobra unit installed(black wire) at time of purchase / registration which resulted in eventual break and no flow of current from the heater cable connection (red wire) connection to the control box.
Cost = Don't even ask!
Mood = Just happy to get my van back in working order, now packed and off camping this weekend

 

[soulstyledevon]

Well I have the van back and the heater is working - result !
A summary since problem identified in August
1. VW Dealer no 1 = 4 hours, not fixed
2. VW Dealer no 2 = 4 hours, not fixed
3. VW Dealer No 3 = 25 hours - fixed
Problem was electrical - identified as poor/incorrect cable connection from new when VW Cobra unit installed(black wire) at time of purchase / registration which resulted in eventual break and no flow of current from the heater cable connection (red wire) connection to the control box.
Cost = Don't even ask!
Mood = Just happy to get my van back in working order, now packed and off camping this weekend

View attachment 27069

Cost.
This could be a fun guessing game.

£800...?

 

[soulstyledevon]

It would be a lot simpler if VW dumped the control panel and had separate controls for each item.
Good luck with it.

True.
Would make fault finding much simpler and surely help bring the costs down.
Optioned new is about £2.5k, yet retro fit is about £1300

 

[dayslikethis]

Cost.
This could be a fun guessing game.

£800...?

Who have you been talking to ? Excluding the amount from garage no 1 you are wrong.....well by just £5.00

 

[soulstyledevon]

Who have you been talking to ? Excluding the amount from garage no 1 you are wrong.....well by just £5.00

Holy £$%+....!!!

 

[Loz]

Cost.
This could be a fun guessing game.

£800...?

Could we have a poll?

 

[Abnomynous]

Problem was electrical - identified as poor/incorrect cable connection from new when VW Cobra unit installed(black wire) at time of purchase / registration which resulted in eventual break and no flow of current from the heater cable connection (red wire) connection to the control box.
Cost = Don't even ask!
Mood = Just happy to get my van back in working order, now packed and off camping this weekend

View attachment 27069

As I suspected in post #4; VW's interconnections are horrendous.
Intuitively it feels like something the offending installer should cover, but maybe best to just be happy that the problem is gone and carry on with the good old life.

More of the same: Here are some pics from my fault search when NOTHING camper related worked. The initial suspected culprit was, wait for it: The control panel.

Above: The seat and battery are easy to remove, although quite bulky.
(Typical working conditions in Sweden during the dark season.)


Below: One of three badly corroded parallell interconnections.
Luckily all where accessible from under the left side seat. According to the wiring diagram there is similar wiring lurking under the kitchen sink, I cant begin to imagine the nightmare it will be when one of those fail.

We had great help from the wiring diagrams in the VIP files section, this forum is invaluable.

 

[dayslikethis]

As I suspected in post #4; VW's interconnections are horrendous.
Intuitively it feels like something the offending installer should cover, but maybe best to just be happy that the problem is gone and carry on with the good old life.

More of the same: Here are some pics from my fault search when NOTHING camper related worked. The initial suspected culprit was, wait for it: The control panel.
View attachment 27154 View attachment 27155
Above: The seat and battery are easy to remove, although quite bulky.
(Typical working conditions in Sweden during the dark season.)


Below: One of three badly corroded parallell interconnections.
Luckily all where accessible from under the left side seat. According to the wiring diagram there is similar wiring lurking under the kitchen sink, I cant begin to imagine the nightmare it will be when one of those fail.
View attachment 27156
We had great help from the wiring diagrams in the VIP files section, this forum is invaluable.

I agree this forum has been an excellent resource. I certainly found myself giving some suggestions / advice to technicians along the way. As for my issue, well I’m just relieved to get it fixed and working again and have already had one night away with a warm heater. I will be contacting the installer and certainly VW UK about the experience.

It really shouldn’t have taken 3 x VW dealers with access to wiring diagrams etc such a long time to detect the problem.

As I’m out of warranty I’m considering where to go next for future servicing etc, dealer or local VW specialist. Jury still out.