Changing varta 92 ah battery for a 150ah lithium in g c 600

[Joe murphy]

Can I replace my varte 92 ah leisure battery for a 150 ah lithium in my grand california 600. If so can I swap over without any alterations to the present system. I would be very grateful for any information

 

[T3Z-GB]

Hi Joe,

There is literally loads of information covering that topic. You won’t have to look to hard.

 

[Eber123]

Hello Joe,

Maybe you want to have a look here (to start off with):

2nd AGM leisure battery in the back of the Grand California

Hello, In many foren it is mentioned that users are not entirely happy with the battery capacity of the Grand California. 46 Ah useable electricity during an autumn, winter or spring weekend might be not enough. Reading it up it seems that there are a few different groups 1.) happy with the...

vwcaliforniaclub.com

It seems this is a challenge for all Grand California owner. The useable 46 Ah is really not that much. But a change / upgrade from AGM to Lithium seems to be not that straight forward (to say it nicely).

The more I read about this, the more it gets complicated and because this is not my expertise it is very difficult to find a company in ROI to do the change / upgrade.

If you find somebody please let us know.

Regards,
Eberhard

 

[markicp]

Just seen this video seems it can be done Lithium battery

 

[T3Z-GB]

Just seen this video seems it can be done Lithium battery

There is a local crowd called Eco Tree lithium who do the same. They have a heated and none heated version. Loads of YouTubers say they’re good.

I think iv mentioned this before in the threads.

 

[leeb]

Hi
Can't down load the video above. Does anyone have any direct experience of swapping the AGM leisure battery in the GC for an eco tree lithium battery. The dimensions of the 100Ah ecotree battery with bluetooth and heater seem ok to sit in the underbonnet slot where the supplied Varta leisure battery currently sits. The BMS on the eco tree battery seems sophisticated enough to deal with charging....BUT has any one, with a GC, done this swap??

 

[GordonH]

There are people who swap the AGM directly out for lithium and there is a lively discussion around it. Some people have done it without any other tweaks relying on the lithium battery BMS to deal with the difference and are happy, others have tweaked the GC alternator charge rates to suit the lithium which seems to be possible via car scanner or the like, others wave red flags. The GCs alternator and hookup charger charge profiles are for AGM is one of the flags and they can’t be altered (easily). There are a few other issues around the KFG/Camper control panel operation worth understanding. The site Caliboard.de and the facebook group https://m.facebook.com/groups/447466682796803/?ref=share have a good amount of info & discussion around it all.

 

[leeb]

Thank you Gordon...This is precisely my observation. The Face book link is to a private german group and my German is non-existant!
I am really interested to hear the experience of someone who has actually done this swap

 

[Benh76]

Hi
Can't down load the video above. Does anyone have any direct experience of swapping the AGM leisure battery in the GC for an eco tree lithium battery. The dimensions of the 100Ah ecotree battery with bluetooth and heater seem ok to sit in the underbonnet slot where the supplied Varta leisure battery currently sits. The BMS on the eco tree battery seems sophisticated enough to deal with charging....BUT has any one, with a GC, done this swap??

I never got round to completing the swop myself but was looking at doing it prior to moving my GC600 on. Check out Titan Batteries in Cirencester as they offer 150ah lithium batteries that fit with max charge rates upto 200a.

 

[leeb]

Thanks for this Benh....had you planned to just do a straight swap. Or had you planned to instal a more powerful charger in addition??

 

[Benh76]

I was planning to do straight swop and maybe add a battery DCDC charger aswell to mitigate the split relay.

 

[leeb]

Sorry to keep following up ...but had you discovered where the split relay is located on the GC?

 

[Benh76]

I hadn’t got that far and tbh wasn’t planing to fit the DcDc charger myself anyway. Titan were going to do the lot for me

 

[Kayleigh]

As an alternative… Have you thought about installing a Delta2 and the alternator charger from EcoFlow? It could easily be wired into the main battery in the cab. This gives you 800W of charging.

 

[leeb]

I hadn’t got that far and tbh wasn’t planing to fit the DcDc charger myself anyway. Titan were going to do the lot for me

Spoke to titan...they don't do /no longer do installation.
Has anyone out there installed a dc-dc battery charger in GC??

 

[Lee A]

Hi Leeb
I’ve been following and doing much reading but no further forward, have you made any progress on this? There seems to be batteries out there that you can develop further in the future i.e inverter, 2nd batteries, solar etc but there does seem to be an immediate benefit to just a straight swap, (triple the length of use on a charge) my worry is, its in the engine bay is the heat safe for the lithium battery? I will work on getting the best out of the battery at a later date i.e split charge, extra battery etc.

 

[leeb]

My understanding is that
Lithium batteries are ok under the bonnet....should the temp exceed 60-70c then the BMS will sing the battery down
The split charge relay will sort of do the job but a 30-50 amp dcdc charger way better to allow fast charging
Solar and hook up charger on the GC are ok for lithium...little advantage to changing
I have a quote for installing a 175 Ahr lithium battery and a victron 30 Amp dcdc charger...around £1600.
Let's see how it goes

 

[Black.Sheep.Cali]

My understanding is that
Lithium batteries are ok under the bonnet....should the temp exceed 60-70c then the BMS will sing the battery down
The split charge relay will sort of do the job but a 30-50 amp dcdc charger way better to allow fast charging
Solar and hook up charger on the GC are ok for lithium...little advantage to changing
I have a quote for installing a 175 Ahr lithium battery and a victron 30 Amp dcdc charger...around £1600.
Let's see how it goes

With our GC on order interested to see how you guys get on.

 

[DLCALI23]

Hi, I have tried this myself, I have an eco tree lithium battery which I've used on a previous motorhome.
So .....
You can do it, however there are some things you need to be aware of ...

You can simply swap out the battery under the bonnet (Habitation) battery with the Lithium battery.
Everything will work, as with the AGM battery .....

EXCEPT FOR ..

The Battery charge indicator on the control panel will show the battery as being 'full' pretty much until it isn't, this is something that you can't change (without re-coding the vehicle software) which is not easy to do.
The lithium battery will ONLY charge when the 'fast charge' button is pressed on the dashboard.
The Lithium battery will drain very quickly (20+ amps) as soon as the engine is stopped after it has been on charge using the method above.
You MUST stop the engine, switch off the ignition and then it will stop discharging.

I tried it for a few months and I've now re-fitted the original AGM battery as the lithium battery just created other problems which I felt weren't worth the benefits.

So, in short, yes, a direct replacement is possible if you're happy to put up with the issues above.

I've added a second battery in the rear cupboard by changing the battery isolator to a 1, 2 & 1+2 selector switch, it then increases the capacity by 100% so around 100ah which is fine for 2 nights off-grid, using fridge and lighting, TV, charging devices etc.

If you need more than this 'off-grid' time you can have a lithium system fitted which replaces the charging (DC-DC) MPPT if you have solar, and so on, but they come at quite a high premium.

Hope this is helpful to you in some way.

 

[leeb]

Interesting...the problems you describe dlcal123 are exactly as predicted from my reading around this subject. The solution is to replace the split charge relay with a dcdc charger (I will be replacing with a 50 amp charger, not 30 as I previously posted)...this will make use of the huge output from the crafter alternator, and prevent the lithium leisure discharging into the engine battery. The panel issue is unsolvable here. I believe there is a German company based near hamburg that can do the recoding but unable to find anyone in UK

 

[DLCALI23]

Yes, I've not gone in to too much detail but you can see what to expect, I've looked at using a DC- DC charger which I have (programmable) but was unsure as to avoid the split charge relay in the VW wiring setup, thought about just not using the fast charge button, which should work.
However, I sort of got 'bogged down' as Clarkson would say, and actually realised that we would rarely be off-grid for more than a couple of nights so stopped worrying about it.
Let me know your solution for the DCDC converter

 

[Mr T]

Yes, I've not gone in to too much detail but you can see what to expect, I've looked at using a DC- DC charger which I have (programmable) but was unsure as to avoid the split charge relay in the VW wiring setup, thought about just not using the fast charge button, which should work.
However, I sort of got 'bogged down' as Clarkson would say, and actually realised that we would rarely be off-grid for more than a couple of nights so stopped worrying about it.
Let me know your solution for the DCDC converter

I’ve added a 100ah LiFePO4 battery in the rear cupboard with a 30a dc-dc converter connected off the back of the isolation switch which I’ve replaced with a 1-2-off switch. So essentially the factory AGM battery is charging my Lithium battery. Settings for the dc-dc are such that it stops charging when the AGM drops to 80%. All controlled via the Victron app.
Also means the solar continues to charge the agm battery and this in turn charges the lithium when parked up, and when driving the alternator charges the AGM which in turn charges the lithium.
Had this setup for almost a year now and works well. Always have the battery isolator switch selected on the lithium., which already gives far more useable capacity than the AGM.
This setup works well if you don’t have a need for 230v “off grid”, something that doesn’t bother me.

 

[leeb]

Interesting solution...do you have any photos/wiring diagrams?
L

 

[Benh76]

Interesting...the problems you describe dlcal123 are exactly as predicted from my reading around this subject. The solution is to replace the split charge relay with a dcdc charger (I will be replacing with a 50 amp charger, not 30 as I previously posted)...this will make use of the huge output from the crafter alternator, and prevent the lithium leisure discharging into the engine battery. The panel issue is unsolvable here. I believe there is a German company based near hamburg that can do the recoding but unable to find anyone in UK

Most Lithium batteries have Bluetooth connectivity these days so you can monitor your input/output through the app anyway replacing the control panel monitoring.

 

[G-A-R-Y]

Has anyone had any dash light warnings when using B to B. ie, does the van ecu monitor unexpected current draw and bring up warnings.