Which electric car to buy?

[pjm-84]

I like the I3, cracking little car and a good drive. Regen was harsh back in 2015 when I drove one so hopefully this is less aggressive with the newer models. Would have bought one but at £40k I thought BMW were pushing it a little considering the range on offer back then. Nearly bought one again in 2019 but the car I was going to drive and had organised weeks in advance, whilst my Mini was in for a service, wasn't available and BMW's attitude was hey ho what do you want us to do about...... so I bought a Toyota

Dont forget your EV tariff at 7.5p a kWh

 

[ArunAlec]

It’s those pesky batteries…….Ameland rescue: Ship with 3,000 cars in deadly fire off Dutch coast https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-66310280

 

[GrumpyGranddad]

It’s those pesky batteries…….Ameland rescue: Ship with 3,000 cars in deadly fire off Dutch coast https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-66310280

Bit of a trend developing with Lithium batteries.

The Post Office won’t accept a parcel containing even a small Lithium battery. Says something about the potential for fire.

 

[Lambeth Cali]

I like the I3, cracking little car and a good drive. Regen was harsh back in 2015 when I drove one so hopefully this is less aggressive with the newer models. Would have bought one but at £40k I thought BMW were pushing it a little considering the range on offer back then. Nearly bought one again in 2019 but the car I was going to drive and had organised weeks in advance, whilst my Mini was in for a service, wasn't available and BMW's attitude was hey ho what do you want us to do about...... so I bought a Toyota

Dont forget your EV tariff at 7.5p a kWh

£40k was definitely a big ask considering the range but 5 years old and with a pretty fabulous valet and service from Wisely Automotive it’s great as a city car. Lovely interior and the regen is perfect for me. I’m not sure if you can adjust it in settings but it seems just right for my driving. Plus I love any vehicle that will never rust. My 2008 Golf didn’t even have satnav or Bluetooth so the i3 is like the starship Enterprise!

I might get around to a tariff change but with about 100 miles a week use costing about £8 it would save maybe £6 which sounds amazing but it’s dwarfed by the £35 I think I’ll be saving on petrol.

 

[soulstyledevon]

Anyone got the stats for electric car fires vs petrol/diesel car fires for 2022…?

 

[Corradobrit]

£40k was definitely a big ask considering the range but 5 years old and with a pretty fabulous valet and service from Wisely Automotive it’s great as a city car. Lovely interior and the regen is perfect for me. I’m not sure if you can adjust it in settings but it seems just right for my driving. Plus I love any vehicle that will never rust. My 2008 Golf didn’t even have satnav or Bluetooth so the i3 is like the starship Enterprise!

I might get around to a tariff change but with about 100 miles a week use costing about £8 it would save maybe £6 which sounds amazing but it’s dwarfed by the £35 I think I’ll be saving on petrol.

Warp speed Scottie, and don't spare the electrons. Next you'll be installing the optional flux capacitor.

 

[Velma's Dad]

Anyone got the stats for electric car fires vs petrol/diesel car fires for 2022…?

Any raw data prob. need to be treated with care... I saw some stats that said 20 times more petrol/diesel fires than for EVs (per 1,000 cars). However that doesn't allow for lower average age of the EVs, and of course while a big petrol fire probably isn't much fun to put out, a lithium battery fire can be a complete bitch.

Battery fires certainly do appear to be an issue but probably not as big one as the anti-EV crowd like to make out. Just my view.

 

[andyinluton]

Any raw data prob. need to be treated with care... I saw some stats that said 20 times more petrol/diesel fires than for EVs (per 1,000 cars). However that doesn't allow for lower average age of the EVs, and of course while a big petrol fire probably isn't much fun to put out, a lithium battery fire can be a complete bitch.

Battery fires certainly do appear to be an issue but probably not as big one as the anti-EV crowd like to make out. Just my view.

Depends if you count hybrid as petrol/ diesel or EV!


Vehicle fire data

Data obtained through a Freedom of Information (FOI) request revealed that in 2019 the London Fire Brigade dealt with 54 electric vehicle fires compared with 1,898 petrol and diesel fires.

Vehicle registration numbers from the Department for Transport (DfT) show there are 50,000-plus plug-in cars licensed in the capital out of a total 4.63 million licensed cars.

Looking at the London Fire Brigade data, that would suggest an incident rate of 0.04% for petrol and diesel car fires, while the rate for plug-in vehicle is more than double at 0.1%. So far this year, there have been 1,021 petrol and diesel fires and 27 EV fires in the capital.

 

[Velma's Dad]

Looking at the London Fire Brigade data, that would suggest an incident rate of 0.04% for petrol and diesel car fires, while the rate for plug-in vehicle is more than double at 0.1%. So far this year, there have been 1,021 petrol and diesel fires and 27 EV fires in the capital.

Not saying that's wrong but it seems a big number. It would imply one in every hundred plug in cars bursting into flames during a 10 year lifespan. Hmmm.

Interesting topic though. Just found this on US Autowekk website: "Researchers from insurance deal site Auto Insurance EZ compiled sales and accident data from the Bureau of Transportation Statistics and the National Transportation Safety Board. The site found that hybrid vehicles had the most fires per 100,000 sales at 3474.5. There were 1529.9 fires per 100k for gas vehicles and just 25.1 fires per 100k sales for electric vehicles."

That's a 3.5% rate for hybrids - holy sh1t! Can that be right?

 

[Digger]

Would love an EV but insurance quotes are ridiculous. Also seems Id3 is only $16000 in China.

 

[andyinluton]

Not saying that's wrong but it seems a big number. It would imply one in every hundred plug in cars bursting into flames during a 10 year lifespan. Hmmm.

Probably skewed statistics again.
Theres a probability of a fossil fuel car catching fire, & there's a probability of EV catching fire, just using logic a hybrid has at least the probability of those two added together + a bit more as there will be even more complex wiring.


It was from a 2020 fleet news magazine as part of an article that also commented on:

Ford recalled more than 20,000 Kuga plug-in hybrids in August after it found, in some instances, faulty batteries had overheated when charging, causing a fire. Owners, including around 1,800 in the UK, were advised not to charge their cars and to operate them in ‘EV Auto’ mode only.

Following Ford’s recall, BMW revealed it has identified almost 3,000 plug-in hybrid models in the UK that could be at risk of a battery fire.

It has now issued a recall and suspended delivery of affected new models as a preventative measure. A total of 26,700 vehicles are said to be involved worldwide, of which around 2,930 are either with UK customers or awaiting delivery.

 

[Glenderaterra]

I think I have decided that the perfect complement to our Cali ocean is to have an electric car for the everyday journeys we make. I wondered if I might pick you collective brains on the following questions that I am pondering.

1. Should I go for the VW ID3, Hyundai Kona or Kia E Niro? Any thoughts or experiences of these cars?

2. What's the best way of going about buying a new car? is it best to go with the cheapest Carwow/drive the deal quotes or are there advantages of going direct through dealers? How do you go about getting a good price?

3. Any other tips you have?

Thank you in anticipation.

I came to the same conclusion and have a Mini Electric. Bought using salary sacrifice so effectively at a 40 % discount. I absolutely love it. The range is lousy but it doesn't matter as it is only used for local journeys and it is always charged at home often for free from my solar panels.

 

[Amarillo]

Not saying that's wrong but it seems a big number. It would imply one in every hundred plug in cars bursting into flames during a 10 year lifespan. Hmmm.

Interesting topic though. Just found this on US Autowekk website: "Researchers from insurance deal site Auto Insurance EZ compiled sales and accident data from the Bureau of Transportation Statistics and the National Transportation Safety Board. The site found that hybrid vehicles had the most fires per 100,000 sales at 3474.5. There were 1529.9 fires per 100k for gas vehicles and just 25.1 fires per 100k sales for electric vehicles."

That's a 3.5% rate for hybrids - holy sh1t! Can that be right?

50,000 sounds like an extraordinarily low number for registered EVs in London.

And there may be a great many ICE cars sitting doing nothing very much.

Fatalities are usually compared by billion passenger miles (not numbers of pedestrians, bicycles, cars, vans, busses, trucks, lorries, etc.) So maybe a better way to compare likelihood of a fire is by billion miles of EV/ICE usage.

 

[Winston Rumfoord]

I came to the same conclusion too.

Salary sacrifice would have been perfect but my big 4 employer that wants to attract the best talent and offer a low carbon, clean air solution for clients doesn’t offer an electric car scheme . New felt too expensive for what would be our run about and inevitably get trashed.

I wanted an i3 or a Honda e. Rear doors didn’t work for us on the i3 and the boot was ridiculous in the Honda e. We also realised that we really liked our petrol up! Fits all four of us in, boot is fine and the small size is great for nipping around in. So we now have an e-up! which is perfect.

Only cost £5k plus part-ex, no change in insurance cost, we plug in on a 3 pin socket one per week, fun to nip around in and does >90% of our journeys.

Hasn’t caught fire yet either!

 

[Wannabecamperman]

Curious how generous the gov were with the incentives

Very, I suspect. They had to be. Lots of smoke and mirrors allowing Sunak to have nice soundbytes and headlines around job creation etc...

 

[Borris]

WHICH ELECTRIC CAR TO BUY?​

Since the signs are there that the whole EV revolution is stalling, shouldn't the title of this thread be:

Should I be considering an Electric Car at all?

 

[Lambeth Cali]

WHICH ELECTRIC CAR TO BUY?​

Since the signs are there that the whole EV revolution is stalling, shouldn't the title of this thread be:

Should I be considering an Electric Car at all?

Given today’s news, I would say it’s far from stalling. In fact if you live inside the M25 it’s accelerating. Time to crack on.

 

[Borris]

Given today’s news, I would say it’s far from stalling. In fact if you live inside the M25 it’s accelerating. Time to crack on.

I suspect that the ULEZ fight is far from over.

 

[Velma's Dad]

I suspect that the ULEZ fight is far from over.

I suspect that the ULEZ fight (London and other cities) will have only a limited impact on EV takeup, at least in the short term. Because the people hit by ULEZ charges are mostly people with older diesels and their "upgrade" path from those will be to newer but second-hand ICE cars, not to EVs which at this point will mostly remain out of their price range.

(I'm very much in favour of ULEZ-type schemes to reduce the morbidity and mortality from local air pollution in urban areas, however to do it without giving some economic cushion to less well-off people - eg through a diesel scrappage scheme maybe - is IMO very unjust.)

 

[Amarillo]

WHICH ELECTRIC CAR TO BUY?​

Since the signs are there that the whole EV revolution is stalling, shouldn't the title of this thread be:

Should I be considering an Electric Car at all?

A long long way from stalling.

I’m close to 100% certain our next car (to replace our Skoda Citigo) will be electric. 50 mile range and max speed about 40mph, charging from a standard socket would be ideal for us.

 

[Amarillo]

I suspect that the ULEZ fight (London and other cities) will have only a limited impact on EV takeup, at least in the short term. Because the people hit by ULEZ charges are mostly people with older diesels and their "upgrade" path from those will be to newer but second-hand ICE cars, not to EVs which at this point will mostly remain out of their price range.

(I'm very much in favour of ULEZ-type schemes to reduce the morbidity and mortality from local air pollution in urban areas, however to do it without giving some economic cushion to less well-off people - eg through a diesel scrappage scheme maybe - is IMO very unjust.)

I too support the scheme in general. It is time that London motorists starting paying for the roads they use. (Once the current funding round ends, TfL will get nothing from the exchequer for roads or anything, so fare paying passengers will, in effect, be subsidising car drivers).

However, It is easy for me with two compliant vehicles, to say that. Ben (9) has a best friend whose dad is a window cleaner. He has a 2015 diesel van, and the scrappage scheme will not give him a fair deal. He’s going to have to pay around £4,500 per year to continue to use his van. Those blasting about in £250,000 Lamborghinis won’t pay a penny.

I hope that the ULEZ will very quickly morph into a congestion style charge, where everyone contributes something but with some discount for vehicles with zero tailgate emissions, and for those vehicles specially adapted for disabled use.

With such an excellent public transport network, there is very little need for private car useage within the Greater London Boundary.

 

[Wildcamper]

First hydrogen van tops 400 miles range during SSE trial

SSE has just completed its four-week trial of the First Hydrogen fuel cell van, becoming the second UK business to generate real-world data following Rivus in May

www.fleetnews.co.uk

 

[Calimili]

Any raw data prob. need to be treated with care... I saw some stats that said 20 times more petrol/diesel fires than for EVs (per 1,000 cars). However that doesn't allow for lower average age of the EVs, and of course while a big petrol fire probably isn't much fun to put out, a lithium battery fire can be a complete bitch.

Battery fires certainly do appear to be an issue but probably not as big one as the anti-EV crowd like to make out. Just my view.

Dwelling into the statistics one must also precise and differentiate between "vehicle fire" and vehicle "burning out".

 

[OGII]

With such an excellent public transport network, there is very little need for private car useage within the Greater London Boundary.

Have to disagree Tom.

Having lived within the semi-rural north west of the Greater London Boundary there are a lot of places not served by effective public transport. Some villages (Harefield as an example) have no tube or train line) and the buses ramble on their way to anywhere.

As with most things London centric the tube and train lines often just radiate in and out of the centre, making east-west journeys difficult.

The recent Uxbridge abd South Ruislip by-election highlighted the issue although I think a lot of that has been the rushed 9 months notice of the impending change.

Tongue in cheek question. If private car use isn't needed in Greater London how many trips does your Citygo make each week, especially if I've guessed correctly you are more or less in zone 2?

 

[Borris]

Nearly all London centric responses.

However, my comment (post #1292), was made in light of some of the recent decisions the larger car makers such as VW, Honda, GM and Toyota appear to have made.


Even smaller volume manufacturer Porsche seem to be putting their money elsewhere in eco fuel development.