starting problems

[silverbambi]

My lovely van (T4 year 2000 – yes it is old – we both are) is causing me sleepless nights.

It refuses to start.

Have replaced the battery, ignition switch, starter motor and the cable linking the ignition to the starter motor – now waiting for a new relay.

Had the timing reset several weeks ago by a specialist company and it was starting on the first turn of the key – was really pleased with it. Before that it was taking many turns of the engine to start. Was puffing out clouds of white fumes and smelling of diesel.

It did have the habit of playing completely dead, though after fiddling around with the key and gear stick (auto) it somehow would magically start. Now it is stuck in this non start mode.

Anyone have any suggestions? Please, please, please.

Regards, Gordon

 

[Drpps]

Is the dash lighting up when ignition on? Battery at least a bit alive although with a new one it should be OK. Have you checked the voltage?
If fiddling with the gear lever/key helped then it may be an immobliser/sensor issue that thinks it is in gear rather than park/neutral and will refuse to start.
Fresh fuel if it is turning but not starting? Is the fuel pump running or could that have died? If it was taking ages to start previously maybe the pump was failing or there is air in the system. Has it run dry of fuel as diesel pumps of that era need priming if they run dry.

 

[andyinluton]

Manual or Auto?
Does it do anything when you turn the key? any clicking of relays, hum from a fuel pump? does the engine actually turn over?
If you put headlights on & turn the key do they go dimmer?

 

[AlanC]

If it was pushing out white smoke when it did start, then that could be because the cylinder preheaters may have failed. Does the curly heating symbol on the speedo light up when you turn the ignition on?

Alan

 

[sidepod]

White smoke suggests it’s a diesel? You’ve not specified?

From your brief description it sounds electrical?

As Andy says, is it a crank no start or a no crank?

Does it start eventually?

More Intel required before the panel can guess.

 

[sidepod]

You say it was taking several turns before starting.

One common issue with these vans is the fuel tank pickup/sender unit.
They crack around the fuel pipe connector allowing air in and fuel to drain back from the injector pump. Result, long crank before starting.
Simple fix, seat out, carpet up, replace sender.

 

[silverbambi]

Is the dash lighting up when ignition on? Battery at least a bit alive although with a new one it should be OK. Have you checked the voltage?
If fiddling with the gear lever/key helped then it may be an immobliser/sensor issue that thinks it is in gear rather than park/neutral and will refuse to start.
Fresh fuel if it is turning but not starting? Is the fuel pump running or could that have died? If it was taking ages to start previously maybe the pump was failing or there is air in the system. Has it run dry of fuel as diesel pumps of that era need priming if they run dry.

Appreciate you coming back so quickly. Dash lights up. The battery has a signal – about 12.2. I have nearly a full tank of fuel as I filled up the other day when it was mobile.
The only good point is that when it hasn't started, it is usually outside the house. Once it goes it usually keeps going. It seems worse if I leave it for a few days.
Several weeks ago, a local repair man drove up to us with a colleague – he started the van by bypassing the ignition, and then when he got it to his workplace he couldn't replicate the fault – it kept starting fine. An intermittent fault is the hardest to find. I think this means the starter motor is OK.
Think the fuel pump is OK as it does not turn the motor over.

 

[sidepod]

Still no idea if it’s petrol or diesel???

 

[andyinluton]

Still no idea if it’s petrol or diesel???

From other posts I'm guessing its an automatic - in which case based on the symptoms above its either a dodgy ignition switch or the inhibiter switch on the auto gearbox that stops the starter motor working unless the box is in either neutral or Park.
Sounds like the mechanic just put a screwdriver over the starter solenoid terminals to bypass the ignition & inhibiter switch.

 

[sidepod]

So the reported white smoke is literally a smoke screen then?
Anyway I think you’re right, one of those issues that’s quicker to fix than describe here!!

Tbh, not sure they ever made an auto diesel?

 

[silverbambi]

Is the dash lighting up when ignition on? Battery at least a bit alive although with a new one it should be OK. Have you checked the voltage?
If fiddling with the gear lever/key helped then it may be an immobliser/sensor issue that thinks it is in gear rather than park/neutral and will refuse to start.
Fresh fuel if it is turning but not starting? Is the fuel pump running or could that have died? If it was taking ages to start previously maybe the pump was failing or there is air in the system. Has it run dry of fuel as diesel pumps of that era need priming if they run dry.

You say it was taking several turns before starting.

One common issue with these vans is the fuel tank pickup/sender unit.
They crack around the fuel pipe connector allowing air in and fuel to drain back from the injector pump. Result, long crank before starting.
Simple fix, seat out, carpet up, replace sender.

Thanks for the advice, though I don't think it applies here as it will not crank – just dead.

 

[silverbambi]

From other posts I'm guessing its an automatic - in which case based on the symptoms above its either a dodgy ignition switch or the inhibiter switch on the auto gearbox that stops the starter motor working unless the box is in either neutral or Park.
Sounds like the mechanic just put a screwdriver over the starter solenoid terminals to bypass the ignition & inhibiter switch.

That sounds a lot like the fault. You are correct in that it is an automatic and it is diesel. The ignition switch has been changed. I will tell him about the inhibitor switch as that has not been mentioned yet.
The mechanic did just what you described in that he put a screwdriver across some terminals to bypass the ignition.
He has shown me how to do this which I have clumsily done a couple of times – is this in any way dangerous?
Regards, Gordon

 

[silverbambi]

Manual or Auto?
Does it do anything when you turn the key? any clicking of relays, hum from a fuel pump? does the engine actually turn over?
If you put headlights on & turn the key do they go dimmer?

Hello again Andy, When turning the key it does make clicking noises which sound like the starter motor is failing to work.
Yes, the lights go out when I turn the key in the ignition. Does that indicate anything?
I have also used another key to check if it was a fault in the key (would that be the immobiliser?)

 

[silverbambi]

Is the dash lighting up when ignition on? Battery at least a bit alive although with a new one it should be OK. Have you checked the voltage?
If fiddling with the gear lever/key helped then it may be an immobliser/sensor issue that thinks it is in gear rather than park/neutral and will refuse to start.
Fresh fuel if it is turning but not starting? Is the fuel pump running or could that have died? If it was taking ages to start previously maybe the pump was failing or there is air in the system. Has it run dry of fuel as diesel pumps of that era need priming if they run dry.

Hello Drpps, Typed out an answer that has flown away somewhere. Will have another go.
The dash lighting comes on – also headlights, which go off when I turn the iginition key.
I will tell the mechanic about the immobiliser/sensor issue thinking it is in park/neutral (as he should have a new relay tomorrow). He has had several goes at the problem and is a bit stumped. He will also examine the wiring loom next for worn wiring.

 

[andyinluton]

If you get the clicking it should rule out the autobox inhibiter switch.

You can test that by trying to start the van with it in gear - should be no click.

Lights dimming to me indicates not enough current getting to the starter - as its intermittent I would be looking at:
1. starter solenoid
2. earth strap
3. battery terminal connections
4. new van

 

[silverbambi]

So the reported white smoke is literally a smoke screen then?
Anyway I think you’re right, one of those issues that’s quicker to fix than describe here!!

Tbh, not sure they ever made an auto diesel?

 

[silverbambi]

Hello sidepod, Thanks for answering.

Yes, I suppose the white smoke was a bit of a smoke screen – sorry.
I thought it was useful to know as I had both faults at the same time, but did not realise the non starting was going to get serious as fiddling with the ignition and the auto gear stick often got over the problem.

For the white diesel smoke I took it to a specialist on timeing. They corrected by resetting the timing, which meant it now starts on the first turn of the key without smoking (when it does start)

It is an automatice and diesel. It was imported from Germany by Bilbo's Campervans. They sold it to me as a demo vehicle. It had all the extras on which was great. They wanted to see what ideas they could get. That was 24 years ago.

Regards, Gordon

 

[silverbambi]

If you get the clicking it should rule out the autobox inhibiter switch.

You can test that by trying to start the van with it in gear - should be no click.

Lights dimming to me indicates not enough current getting to the starter - as its intermittent I would be looking at:
1. starter solenoid
2. earth strap
3. battery terminal connections
4. new van

Thanks again for your answers Andy.

I will tell the mechanic of your comments regarding:
1. starter solenoid
2. earth strap
3. battery terminal connections

Will try the click test by having it in gear. As you say, it will indicate something.

4. new van – cheeky Andy, but hopefully it has a few years yet. The bodywork is good and the engine has only done 110,000 miles. Have had to replace the automatic gearbox (not a good story as we broke down on the M3 and continued to break down at different places as we slowly wreaked the gearbox. The AA guys were brilliant). I think the story is that it is not a great gearbox. Gordon

 

[silverbambi]

Really appreciate your response guys. Your hearts are in the right place. Will keep you posted. Gordon

 

[silverbambi]

My answers seem to be disappearing – obviously something I am doing wrong, but what? Gordon
PS I really do appreciate the response from club members.

 

[silverbambi]

Where do all my answers go?

 

[silverbambi]

Update on our campervan.

All is OK now – sta Aylesbury Ltd solved the problem.

They supplied and fitted a Multi function switch and cleared fault codes (thats what is on my invoice). In language that I can understand, it was the switch or sensor that detects whether the van is in Drive or Neutral. This was not happening and therefore couldn't start.

We returned from a month in Spain and our campervan started beautifully on the first turn of the key. Absolutely marvellous. I am a very happy bunny.

These were the people I went to when my automatic gearbox jammed and died over 3 years ago. They are specialists in rebuilding and replacing gearboxes on all vehicles.

I found these people to be very knowledgeable in their field – and very helpful. They are a small, professional outfit – and importent to me, a team of good people to deal with.

I do appreciate the help and comments from all of you nice people. Thanks, Gordon McCallum