Installed a 1500W power inverter - advisable?

[soundsk]

Hi,

For a while now I've joked about having a Nespresso coffee machine in the van. Well, last Christmas my mother-in-law gave me one, for the van.
Of course I didn't want to be limited to being plugged in to 220V from a campsite, so I ordered a 1500/3000W pure sine wave power inverter from Germany.
The coffee machine is rated at around 1200W, and it should be for short periods, just enough to make three or for espressos, at most.

The power cable it came with wasn't long enough, so I went to the nearest store and bought the only "audio amplifier install cable kit" I could find. It came with enough length, it's about the same gauge as the cables the inverter came with, and the positive lead comes with an in-line fuse holder with a 30A fuse in place.

Anyone care to guess what happened to the fuse as soon as I turned the coffee machine on? Yes, it blew.
Not unexpected, I was counting on it, 30A would never be enough.
What did surprise was the clock on the camping controller resetting. I did not have the engine running.

My question is - with the proper fuse in place, of course - can the inverter cause damage to the battery?
Should I have the engine running when the inverter is drawing so much power, and can this cause any damage to the alternator or is the alternator "strong" enough for this?


This is how I installed it - connected to the rear battery, as to not make any holes or permanent changes to the van itself:






Cheers!

 

[GrannyJen]

but did you remember the milk?

 

[Meoncoast]

You must love your coffee, l glade I am a tea person

 

[soundsk]

I do love my coffee, and I love tea!

Of course that's not the only use for the inverter - powering my laptop, a couple of chargers and some other devices.
My question is toward the coffee maker because it draws so much power, everything else I might connect to it won't draw nearly as much.
I don't want to risk damaging the batteries or alternator.

Anyone got any experience with this?

Cheers!

 

[18hunts]

What I do know is that volts x amps = watts.
Your coffee machines pulls 1200 watts which means at 230 volts it's pulling 5.2 amps, however you are running through an inverter which is taking its power from 12 volts. The load of 1200 watts is still there but being supplied at 12 volts to the inverter. Ignoring the efficiency of your inverter that means that as a minimum the cable running from your battery to the inverter is having to carry at least 100 amps.
Sounds a good way to destroy a battery that was never designed to carry this load and if it was able to it's a good potential fire risk.

Running your engine will achieve nothing, the biggest load that a Cali is expecting is probably the starter motor, the alternator just chargers the battery and is not there to take direct load.

 

[zeratul]

Battery should be fine, starting the engine draws 150Amps, with peaks up to 250Amps.
But you need very thick wires and very good connections and insulation to be safe.

Why don't you take an external 12v battery to experiment with, until it works. Then try to install it somewhere in the van, only through a 12v-sourced battery charger (source leisure battery, target new battery) which you can disconnect when making coffee to be sure.

I also love espresso.. but this isn't worth my life

Have a look at this as an alternative:
Portable espresso machine, car and travel espresso maker - Handpresso
e.g.
in-car espresso maker set - Handpresso

 

[andyinluton]

With the inefficiency of the inverter you will be pulling at least 150Amps a 100AH battery will get down to its 50% recommended minimum charge in about 20 minutes. as Zeratul pointed out its a similar load to the starter motor but running for longer. I have tried running a floor standing air-conditioning unit via an inverter in a previous motorhome I think that was 1100 watts , even with the high output alternator charging the battery at the same time we could run it for about 10 minutes before we ended up with a flat battery,I would also be extremely worried about the battery overheating.

 

[soundsk]

Thank you very much, very helpful answers!

The espresso is definitely not worth damaging the batteries over or risking fire, hence this thread, before I went any further.
As I didn't know what kind of leisure batteries the Cali has, I had to ask.

I believe the current leads are thick enough, but just to be on the safe side I'm going to replace them for a higher gauge. Connections are good, I soldered the terminals, used two layers of shrink tube to insulate them, and tightened the battery and inverter connections bolts very securely.

Keep in mind that the coffee machine take about 3 to 4 minutes to heat the water for the coffee, which is where the big power drain is.

Connecting an extra battery through a battery charger also looks like a very good idea, but I'm not sure it's worth the hassle, extra weight and space occupation...

I'll take the coffee machine to the house, plug it in the wall, see how much it draws and for exactly how long, then I'll decide if I ditch it or leave it in the van!
The inverter will stay on, worst case scenario I'll leave it as is, with a 30A fuse only to power laptops and the like, if anyone tries to plug in anything higher blows the fuse and doesn't damage anything...

I will post my findings here tomorrow or in the weekend, so others may benefit in the future from this information!

 

[GrannyJen]

You don't need an inverter to charge laptops etc. All mine, Mac books etc, to my Bose mini sound link, charge quite nicely on 12v.

This all sounds like a spam - joke post, but in all seriousness I rely on my batteries to keep me safe, sound and mobile and a cup of coffee is simply not worth jeopardising that lot.

 

[soundsk]

You don't need an inverter to charge laptops etc. All mine, Mac books etc, to my Bose mini sound link, charge quite nicely on 12v.

This all sounds like a spam - joke post, but in all seriousness I rely on my batteries to keep me safe, sound and mobile and a cup of coffee is simply not worth jeopardising that lot.

Not a joke post, I assure you. And again, that's the reason I opened this thread in the first place - to learn from those who know more than I do about the Cali. I would never risk its "well-being" for a cup of coffee, but since it was a gift meant for it, I thought I should give it a try and explore the idea.
That's why I didn't install the inverter in a definitive way, I just put it inside the cabinet and routed the cables to the back with minimal fuss.

As for the need for an inverter, now that I have it I might as well use it - all my chargers are 220V, not 12V - that includes the laptops, camera chargers, drone battery chargers etc.. The only 12V chargers I have are for the phones and AA/AAA batteries.

And here is the coffee maker itself, if you don't believe me :




Cheers!

 

[GrannyJen]

Well in that case I owe you are coffee ...

Do you also look like George Clooney?

In which case I will make you two coffee's ... three?

 

[2into1]

Most laptops run at around the 18v mark, so using an inverter to go from 12v up to 220v only for your laptops power adaptor to bring it down to 18v isn't very efficient (I believe....). I bought a 12v to 18v adapter to use in the van and been very pleased with it.

 

[soundsk]

Hahaha Jen, well I'll let you be the judge of that.
And you're welcome to switch the coffee for a glass of wine!

Yes T4WFA, not the most efficient setup, but like I said, now that I've got the inverter, I think I might as well use it, instead of buying a whole new separate set of 12V chargers and adapters for all the tech stuff. And in a pinch it could come in handy for something else, you never know.

 

[igmac]

when we go away in the winter we use an electric blanket, fine when you're on hookup but no good when wild camping. i was toying with the idea of an inverter for that only 3 or 4 hundred watt though. Thanks for sharing soundsk

 

[GrannyJen]

Hahaha Jen, well I'll let you be the judge of that.
And you're welcome to switch the coffee for a glass of wine!

I have some gorgeous portugese wine in my cellar ... just waiting for George Clooney...

You do not need an inverter to open the bottle either ..... so let's skip the coffee and go for the wine ...

 

[MCh1777]

It seems like a lot of power to take out of a battery to me. The inverter built into the van is rated as 150W at 240V which seems more like it! This would be fine for a laptop mains powered charger. You will probably need an adapter from the 2-pin Euro socket to 3-pin UK. The one sold by the club shop is great but was unavailable when I wanted one so I ordered one from Skross and got the wrong one (there is a lot of choice and I was in too much of a hurry). Eventually I have one that works - Skross World Travel Adapter MUV USB 2-pole adapter and USB charger. (I bought a 3-pole at first - doesn't fit!). Anyway it's a very nice bit of kit and costs about £20, plugs into the Euro socket and provides a UK mains 3-pin socket and a couple of USB sockets. But is only for devices that don't need an earth connection and less than 150W total!

 

[soundsk]

Jen, I leave you with what I believe is one of my better photos - I don't really like having my picture taken, I'll let you make the George Clooney comparison by yourself!




MCh1777, my Cali is the pre-facelift model, no built-in inverter. I know because when I tried to use the 220V socket and it didn't work I went searching for the problem - blown fuses, etc. only to discover my model does not have an inverter built-in like the following facelift models.
Also 150W would not be enough for my MacBook, I did the math!

And I'm from Portugal, we use the "Euro" plug here, hence ordering the inverter from Germany and not ebay UK.

 

[silversurfer]

Jen, I leave you with what I believe is one of my better photos - I don't really like having my picture taken, I'll let you make the George Clooney comparison by yourself!

View attachment 6545


MCh1777, my Cali is the pre-facelift model, no built-in inverter. I know because when I tried to use the 220V socket and it didn't work I went searching for the problem - blown fuses, etc. only to discover my model does not have an inverter built-in like the following facelift models.
Also 150W would not be enough for my MacBook, I did the math!

And I'm from Portugal, we use the "Euro" plug here, hence ordering the inverter from Germany and not ebay UK.

The inverter doesn't power the 3-pin socket - that's only live when you're hooked up. It powers the difficult to reach 2 pin socket. Is that the one you mean? And as for a 1500w inverter - I vote with the 'No' camp - far to dangerous given the ampage involved.

 

[soundsk]

Yes, that's the one I mean. My Cali does not have a built-in inverter.

Well, I just tested the coffee maker here at home, stopwatch in one hand, ampmeter in the other.
Current is around 4.8~5A, for periods of 25 seconds at most, took 3 cups of "lungo" (which is bigger than an espresso) and none of them ever took more than 25 seconds.
So I'm thinking it's not so bad, if I upgrade the power inverter leads to some "overkill" 22mm thick or around that (rated for up to 4000W), connected and insulated properly with all safety measures in place, I don't think any real damage or danger can come from that, but I'm still meditating on the subject! After all, I'm not planning on opening a roadside cafe!

 

[jts46]

Don't think it is a good idea considering the damage you could do to the wiring loom.

John

 

[zeratul]

Yes, that's the one I mean. My Cali does not have a built-in inverter.

Well, I just tested the coffee maker here at home, stopwatch in one hand, ampmeter in the other.
Current is around 4.8~5A, for periods of 25 seconds at most, took 3 cups of "lungo" (which is bigger than an espresso) and none of them ever took more than 25 seconds.
So I'm thinking it's not so bad, if I upgrade the power inverter leads to some "overkill" 22mm thick or around that (rated for up to 4000W), connected and insulated properly with all safety measures in place, I don't think any real damage or danger can come from that, but I'm still meditating on the subject! After all, I'm not planning on opening a roadside cafe!

22mm (I suppose you mean mm2 ?) is not overkill at all.

4-5Amp om 230v, 76-95Amp on 12v excluding invertor inefficiency
4000W rated cable on 230v, 208W on 12v.

For safe electrical installations (at least here in Belgium), for up to 125 Amp you need cable section 30mm2 and for 155 Amp max you need cable section 50mm2.

 

[truhje]

I'm using an Izzy Power converter that give me 150W. It comes ready with a 12V connector that plugs into the 12V socket on the side of the kitchen. It even has a USB slot for those USB chargers. It serves me well, but the serious loads (like a coffee machine) we always connect to an external power source.

 

[Bramco]

I guess the cable size depends on whether you want to use the cables as part of the auxiliary heating system.

 

[barry]

... but nespresso coffee is awful

 

[AlanC]

Drawing an excessively high current from a battery can distort the plates and short it out internally.
At a worst case, this could cause a fire and at best just a dead battery and replacement costs.

Not worth the risk, even for a decent espresso.

Alan