Is the Grand California a success?

MDY__________ said:

It's mainly subjective, right?

A KB is much better for you than a GC so you bought a KB. Sounds like it was a good decision because you're convinced you have a better van.

I much prefer the GC 680 particular from an aesthetic perspective. So I bought a GC. Good decision too because I love the thing.

You saw many hire company GCs and chose to believe VW must be doing incredible deals to persuade otherwise reluctant companies to buy their vans.
An alternative view would be that camper hire companies' purchasers really know what they're doing when it comes to buying vans - more so than the average private buyer - and they believe the quality and sell-on values will be higher for a GC.
Who knows which of these is true? Maybe neither. Maybe a bit of both.

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Fair enough. I wasn’t posting to be controversial, more to point out the fact the thread started with the question as to whether they were a success. Certainly on the continent (and Germany in particular), they seem to be. Whether that’s down to VW support or not, the main thing is, I saw lots wherever I went which isn’t the case in the UK.

I’ve nothing against that whatsoever. I personally think the layout works very well for a family of four.

I also prefer the aesthetics of the 680 and would have it in both GC or KBD form if we didn’t need the extra berth(s).

I’m not concerned with the Knaus vs VW topic per se. I bought the Knaus version for particular reasons around the longer second double bed over the GC but trying to actually inform the fact there are a lot on the roads in Europe in contrast to the U.K. Whatever the reasons are for that, who knows. I guess what I’m more trying to say is I think there’s a lot of prejudice against this size/layout of van, for no good reason as I see it from my experience (and it sounds like yours also).

I started this thread 4 years ago.

Still can’t help thinking what a missed opportunity the Grand Cali is, especially having viewed similar length vans from Westfalia and Hymer.

Not saying it’s awful, just that clearly for me it wasn’t the same design team or budget as the original California. There seems to be a distinct lack of clever design that makes the California what it is. The table in the sliding door, the chairs in the tailgate, the sliding table in the living area. The ‘warmth’ the cali has when the front chairs are swivelled (less so for me in the T6.1 with its dark interior)

The clear design flaws (to me at least) like putting the vent under an opening window etc. The fact you can’t put a roof rack on the roof! The heavy and awkward table. The way the rear bed folds.

So, why have I come back for a little moan?

Become more than ever we want to buy a van around 6m with a fixed bed, shower / toilet. We’ve loved all our Calis (T5, 5.1 and 6) and for us we naturally want the Grand to deliver as well as the California does.

I’d love to know what happened at VW, guessing it was lack of budget due to the much smaller numbers of sales, I’m sure I read somewhere that the Grand sells 1 unit for every 200 Californias (I might have imagined that).

I’m not saying that the Westfalia and Hymers are much better, but as these are technically ‘conversions’ I imagine they had more restrictions. Whereas it would seem VW design team would have had more opportunities to create bespoke and clever parts.

Whenever anyone asks me if I recommend the California over a conversion, my answer is always 100% yes.

VW could have made the Grand California that easy if a decision. They’ve given Westfalia and Hymer a chance to be on the same playing field whereas they could have made the Grand Cali the default option, instead it’s just one of the options, to me at least and of course in no way am I stating I’m right, it’s just my opinion. This is all subjective.

Rant over!

Would still love one, but just felt a little gutted about what might have been.

Absolutely love my GC600 and it suits us much better than our old Ocean. Table issue is easily sorted with the Yes Campervan one.

My only real gripes are the lack of kitchen storage compared to some vans and the firmness of the bench seat (though the kids sit there so not really an issue right now).

Most other 6m 4 berths have a poptop which is completely impractical when travelling with very young kids, maybe I’m exactly the demographic VW were after but I haven’t found a more suitable and better value van (especially with the 5+ promise etc) than the GC for a family of 4 with young children. In fact I couldn’t find another comparable van within £15k of it.

Without the kids it may be a different story of course!

reserves said:

Not saying it’s awful, just that clearly for me it wasn’t the same design team or budget as the original California. There seems to be a distinct lack of clever design that makes the California what it is. The table in the sliding door, the chairs in the tailgate,

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So the table and chairs on the rear doors don't count?

There are a few bits that could have been better designed like the underbed storage, but on the whole & having lived with one for a year, overall the design works.

As for the ambiance I far preffered it to the typical 1970s MFI laminated chipboard effect that the oposition seem to choose.

I commented on this thread in April 21, previously a very happy Cali owner..
Sadly the Grand Cali has not achieved the success expected, much has been said about the VW in other markets where sales have declined its certainly not the exciting cutting edge company of the 1980s.
I purchased a Hymer Grand Canyon more than happy with it, reliability of the Hymer conversion has been excellent.
The Sprinter base vehicle, although fantastic to drive needed a suspension upgrade as the standard set up in my opinion is not fit for van life and the weight we carry.
Its also a very expensive van to Service, maintenance costs are high and Mercedes dealer service poor.
Recently at 25000 and 28000 miles the two Nox sensors had to be replaced at a cost of £1600.
Nox sensor issues are definitely a Mercedes problem area, I suspect other manufacturers have similar failures.

andyinluton said:

So the table and chairs on the rear doors don't count?

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Fair point, yes they are there, just doesn’t feel as slick as the California to me.

Like I say, it feels to me like the Grand could have been better, but maybe they just couldn’t and keep the costs down.

My post wasn’t really to complain about it, though it might sound like it.

I’d just really like to know the story behind it because I just can’t picture that it was the same team that designed the original California as the Grand California.

We looked at it before buying our Westfalia and i really wanted to like it coming from many California’s but it was too clinical i didn’t want 6.8mtrs and i didn’t want a bulbus lump on the top so i think they missed a trick !!!
,but in all honesty not being a Westfalia snob vw originally took there design from Westfalia as the Westfalia was the original California t4.so maybe this time they couldn’t?
As I said I loved the Cali love our Sven too but even now I’m looking for something 4x4 instead it may be the Landrover blood running through my veins but I’m certainly not paying 135k for a hymer I’d love to but that’s crazy money.

Jimmylondon07 said:

Absolutely love my GC600 and it suits us much better than our old Ocean. Table issue is easily sorted with the Yes Campervan one.

My only real gripes are the lack of kitchen storage compared to some vans and the firmness of the bench seat (though the kids sit there so not really an issue right now).

Most other 6m 4 berths have a poptop which is completely impractical when travelling with very young kids, maybe I’m exactly the demographic VW were after but I haven’t found a more suitable and better value van (especially with the 5+ promise etc) than the GC for a family of 4 with young children. In fact I couldn’t find another comparable van within £15k of it.

Without the kids it may be a different story of course!

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Knaus is very similar,

Jay20cali said:

We looked at it before buying our Westfalia and i really wanted to like it coming from many California’s but it was too clinical i didn’t want 6.8mtrs and i didn’t want a bulbus lump on the top so i think they missed a trick !!!
,but in all honesty not being a Westfalia snob vw originally took there design from Westfalia as the Westfalia was the original California t4.so maybe this time they couldn’t?
As I said I loved the Cali love our Sven too but even now I’m looking for something 4x4 instead it may be the Landrover blood running through my veins but I’m certainly not paying 135k for a hymer I’d love to but that’s crazy money.

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4x4 diff lock brand new base van and self converting 280ah/diesel heater (under £50k)
Had awful experience buying a new camper which was £80k+ full of issues even got flooded inside due to poor build.

The Merle said:

4x4 diff lock brand new base van and self converting 280ah/diesel heater (under £50k)
Had awful experience buying a new camper which was £80k+ full of issues even got flooded inside due to poor build.View attachment 132340

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That’s cool
This Westfalia has been so good absolutely can’t fault it next level quality.
I have been torn for a while about selling tbh one min I do next I don’t the wife definitely doesn’t want to sell the Sven but I really do want a 4x4 camper so I will be doing similar to you …spotted a van I fancy with difflock and all the bits I need just got to bite the bullet next and learn how to self build a camper

Jay20cali said:

That’s cool
This Westfalia has been so good absolutely can’t fault it next level quality.
I have been torn for a while about selling tbh one min I do next I don’t the wife definitely doesn’t want to sell the Sven but I really do want a 4x4 camper so I will be doing similar to you …spotted a van I fancy with difflock and all the bits I need just got to bite the bullet next and learn how to self build a camper

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Shame the Sven is 2 berth. We need 4! (Well 3 technically)

Jaycali20

I agree with you about the Sven, I’ve had two new ones and they have been great.
I dithered for ages on changing the van, but the decision was made and I have gone for a Grand Canyon S700 on 4x4 chassis. It was a hard decision because I love the Sven.

Svenhedintony said:

Jaycali20

I agree with you about the Sven, I’ve had two new ones and they have been great.
I dithered for ages on changing the van, but the decision was made and I have gone for a Grand Canyon S700 on 4x4 chassis. It was a hard decision because I love the Sven.

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The s700 is an absolute beast !
Theres only 2 of us the kids are all grown up now .
Sticking with the same base van but 4x4 .

Svenhedintony said:

Jaycali20

I agree with you about the Sven, I’ve had two new ones and they have been great.
I dithered for ages on changing the van, but the decision was made and I have gone for a Grand Canyon S700 on 4x4 chassis. It was a hard decision because I love the Sven.

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Ha ha I’m dithering everyday worrying I’m making the right decision .keep thinking about advertising it and then think no I’ll wait!!!
The Sven is such a good van I’ll probably regret it but it’s not going anywhere until there’s a new 4x4 van sat on the driveway.

Jay20cali said:

That’s cool
This Westfalia has been so good absolutely can’t fault it next level quality.
I have been torn for a while about selling tbh one min I do next I don’t the wife definitely doesn’t want to sell the Sven but I really do want a 4x4 camper so I will be doing similar to you …spotted a van I fancy with difflock and all the bits I need just got to bite the bullet next and learn how to self build a camper

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Bognor motors are good if you want bits done, I had a diesel heater and leisure bat by them.
Justkampers are good for stuff like fridge.
You can save so much and get a van how you want.

The Merle said:

Bognor motors are good if you want bits done, I had a diesel heater and leisure bat by them.
Justkampers are good for stuff like fridge.
You can save so much and get a van how you want.

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Thankyou

Jay20cali said:

Ha ha I’m dithering everyday worrying I’m making the right decision .keep thinking about advertising it and then think no I’ll wait!!!
The Sven is such a good van I’ll probably regret it but it’s not going anywhere until there’s a new 4x4 van sat on the driveway.

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I had the same with my silver joker, great van and the new bronze one was supposed to be even better.
Ended up forcing my hand and doing self build due to issues and to be honest yes the joker was better done if it didn’t flood but having a van that’s half the price makes me a lot happier

Svenhedintony said:

Jaycali20

I agree with you about the Sven, I’ve had two new ones and they have been great.
I dithered for ages on changing the van, but the decision was made and I have gone for a Grand Canyon S700 on 4x4 chassis. It was a hard decision because I love the Sven.

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Hey Tony I have been drooling over the s700 again can I ask what do you think of it and most importantly what’s the mpg on that beast thanks Jay

Jay20cali said:

Hey Tony I have been drooling over the s700 again can I ask what do you think of it and most importantly what’s the mpg on that beast thanks Jay

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Hi Jay

I’ll let you know. The van is in the UK and I have seen it, have waited to have it registered on a 25 plate, so less than 4 weeks away.

Adventures being planned.

Svenhedintony said:

Hi Jay

I’ll let you know. The van is in the UK and I have seen it, have waited to have it registered on a 25 plate, so less than 4 weeks away.

Adventures being planned.

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Awsome exciting times,I see campersales have one that’s a demo and a place in Manchester Emmbee have one too

Jay20cali said:

Awsome exciting times,I see campersales have one that’s a demo and a place in Manchester Emmbee have one too

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Question is would you take £130k plus van off road plus that is very long and high.
Looks cool but not sure what you gain over the Sven makes up for cost.
No underfloor heating, the Sven is small and could be used daily if needed. At a guess£60k difference pays for a lot of adventures.

The Merle said:

Question is would you take £130k plus van off road plus that is very long and high.
Looks cool but not sure what you gain over the Sven makes up for cost.
No underfloor heating, the Sven is small and could be used daily if needed. At a guess£60k difference pays for a lot of adventures.

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Valid point

I see Sam Kemp got hold of one of the first S700’s to hit the UK.
He’s already started modding it. Looks an absolute Beast…!!!
Those longitudinal beds…

soulstyledevon said:

I see Sam Kemp got hold of one of the first S700’s to hit the UK.
He’s already started modding it. Looks an absolute Beast…!!!
Those longitudinal beds…

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Yeah seen that it does look awesome the nuts!!!.nice colour too .

I would say everytime I GC merc on the road it’s an old dude driving it and prob only ever ends up on a campsite show off vehicle. Look cool but that’s the target market!

If you want overland get your fix watching Nick and Mathilde next meridian ex great YouTube ch or itchy boots, love them both.

You could mod that Sven