2023 Ocean leaking roof fabric

[Julesverne2000]

Been following this thread with interest since the start as an owner of a MY23 ocean with the new fabric. Build date January 23.

Our fabric has held up to a few rainy nights but in some pretty terrible conditions at the weekend we did experience drips along the seam on the driver’s side.

During a prolonged period of heavy rain, the leak occurred after around 3 hours when the wind really picked up and conditions were storm like. If there were only 2 of you in the van, you’d close the roof. The leakage wasn’t severe and handled by placing a tea towel underneath. It would have been avoided if we rotated the van so the rear end was facing the wind as the three other sides were all fine.

I’m of the view that in such extreme conditions it’s not entirely unreasonable for there to be a little leakage, especially as the seams aren’t taped and the advice in the manual is to close the roof. Earlier in the thread there was an interesting post on the pressure generated by driving rain.

It’s a different matter for those who are experiencing ingress in relatively benign or standard conditions. I think for my situation, I’m not sure that replacing the bellows would be an improvement and only a wrap or cover would provide reassurance when the weather is at its worst.

 

[Joncali2023!!]

Well, it’s more like a few roofs have leaked and even then it’s unclear if it’s leaked or in some cases come in through the top vents in lashing rain. If we were up in arms about every individual warranty issue someone has with their Cali we’d be busy people. It’s what the warranty is for and as far as I can see, even from the few that have posted about it frequently, it’s a very few cases. Happens. Get’s fixed. Enjoy the van. It’s pain for the isolated and genuine cases but sounds like VW are honouring what we paid for - 75K for a OEM warranty. Feels like an early batch of the new tops to me.

Thanks, I’m a new Cali owner and starting to panic haha. Do we know how we can find the batch / model number of the canvas ? Will it be on the build sheet?

 

[CaliforniaPhil]

Been following this thread with interest since the start as an owner of a MY23 ocean with the new fabric. Build date January 23.

Our fabric has held up to a few rainy nights but in some pretty terrible conditions at the weekend we did experience drips along the seam on the driver’s side.

During a prolonged period of heavy rain, the leak occurred after around 3 hours when the wind really picked up and conditions were storm like. If there were only 2 of you in the van, you’d close the roof. The leakage wasn’t severe and handled by placing a tea towel underneath. It would have been avoided if we rotated the van so the rear end was facing the wind as the three other sides were all fine.

I’m of the view that in such extreme conditions it’s not entirely unreasonable for there to be a little leakage, especially as the seams aren’t taped and the advice in the manual is to close the roof. Earlier in the thread there was an interesting post on the pressure generated by driving rain.

It’s a different matter for those who are experiencing ingress in relatively benign or standard conditions. I think for my situation, I’m not sure that replacing the bellows would be an improvement and only a wrap or cover would provide reassurance when the weather is at its worst.

I am going to try a hosepipe spray on mine before it goes into VW. When we have a couple of days of good weather to dry it out. Good test conditions, its what they will do. Timer, pen/paper and a camera.

If you purchased a tent (even a cheap one) and water bridged the outer shell seems and dripped onto the inner tent, you would return it, not fit for purpose. We are talking about an £80k campervan. This has also got the newly deigned bellows, which you assume is an improvement on the previous bellows.

Mine looks like it's going into the fly screen and I assume the water should exit out at the bottom not in through the seem. I am assuming my sides will be the same as the front. Some say the seems need to be wetted several times to condition them. You would think they would dry out, shrink back and leak again. Test will see what happens.

I will do it next week and report.

 

[Corradobrit]

Some say the seems need to be wetted several times to condition them. You would think they would dry out, shrink back and leak again. Test will see what happens.

I will do it next week and report.

The fabric is not cotton so the whetting and conditioning argument is mute.

 

[dspuk]

Thanks, I’m a new Cali owner and starting to panic haha. Do we know how we can find the batch / model number of the canvas ? Will it be on the build sheet?

No. Build sheet is spec rather than individual parts batches.

From reading this it really feels to me like there were issues with the first batch (I guess Sept - Dec 22).

At Nissan we regularly had issues with new batch builds (and brand new cars, why I never buy a new model of anything until it is at least 12 months old).

These get found quickly and the part silently improved and replaced (to a customers eyes). Sometimes it’s the part. Sometimes its the fitting. It’s then a decision as to wether you tell the customer as a recall, or deal with it case by case with a dealer bulletin. Usually the latter.

I suspect this is the case here.

@Julesverne2000 in his post is the most practical. We have the old bellows and in driving rain and wind would expect some ingress. Why we have a wrap for those conditions. Luckily, inc terrible conditions on the NC500, we have not had any problems so far.

 

[ivan & jill]

Found out during a camping trip last week that our bellows also leak (build week in April) through the two seams below the opening window in the panoramic front section. Not a particularly heavy or ferocious downpour but a constant run of water coming in all along the seams. Didn't happen during worse weather with our T6 and previous 6.1 Oceans.

Contacted dealer and awaiting response.

 

[andyinluton]

The fabric is not cotton so the whetting and conditioning argument is mute.

Its fabric, it may not be cotton so wetting it could be relevant.

I am wondering if the problem is the new internal layers, the water could be wicking through the external fabric layer due to it touching the internal layer.
As the back face of the internal layer is waterproof there is nowhere for the water to go. It would then run down until it hits the horizontal seams which are always going to be a weak point due to the stitching holes.

Mine is a November 22 build & doesn't leak other than wind blown moisture through the two upper vent panels.

 

[Corradobrit]

Its fabric, it may not be cotton so wetting it could be relevant.

Minimally if at all. No voids in synthetic fibers to absorb water. And being hydrophobic they will tend to repel water.

 

[dspuk]

This is the sort of thread that when I was at Nissan and in charge of monitoring forums I'd have been all over like a rash and if needed liaising with the forum admin. Key info on new parts and real world usage. We quite often fed these into design for improvements and changes. Hellish process to actually get anything to change - getting an engineer to admit they had made a design mistake is tricky!

 

[.Billy Ocean.]

We’ve got ours booked in for an inspection in early August, so I’ll report back when we know more.

We’re away for 7 nights from Friday and the forecast looks like it might give us another chance to test the existing bellows eeek!

 

[Corradobrit]

This issue is getting reported on Calibord.de too now. At least 4 reports of leakage at the lower horizontal seam (primarily) but also along other seams to a lesser extent. VW are going to have a huge headache with this new poptop, especially as the weather changes in the Autumn and the fabric gets wet. Most MY23 owners now are in blissful ignorance.

Has anyone had significant exposure to rain without gale force winds at NOT had leaking? I only have one night out in the rain and there was mild wind. The entire front panel was wet but I didn't notice any infiltration on the inside.

 

[RockinNRollin]

Unfortunately the weather here is so rubbish I don't want to hose test it as I'm not going to be able to get it dry again to put it away. I really need a nice warm sunny day, then fire the hose at it for a bit to check for leaks, but the forecast seems to be unbroken rain for the next 21 days.

 

[RockinNRollin]

This issue is getting reported on Calibord.de too now. At least 4 reports of leakage at the lower horizontal seam (primarily) but also along other seams to a lesser extent. VW are going to have a huge headache with this new poptop, especially as the weather changes in the Autumn and the fabric gets wet. Most MY23 owners now are in blissful ignorance.

Has anyone had significant exposure to rain without gale force winds at NOT had leaking? I only have one night out in the rain and there was mild wind. The entire front panel was wet but I didn't notice any infiltration on the inside.

I suspect he might not want to comment, but has @Tomdbreeze had anything to suggest the very latest vans might be better or if there's been any recognition of a faulty batch of bellows / design flaw?

 

[Cumbrian Cali]

Unfortunately the weather here is so rubbish I don't want to hose test it as I'm not going to be able to get it dry again to put it away. I really need a nice warm sunny day, then fire the hose at it for a bit to check for leaks, but the forecast seems to be unbroken rain for the next 21 days.

I wouldn't rely on the hosepipe test... we did that after ours leaked and was dried and it was all OK....put the pop top up in fine rain for an hour or so and the leaks started again x

 

[RockinNRollin]

I wouldn't rely on the hosepipe test... we did that after ours leaked and was dried and it was all OK....put the pop top up in fine rain for an hour or so and the leaks started again x

I guess our test will have to be just through use! I will pack a load of extra microfibre towels as "leak guards" in case it all goes wrong.

 

[Tomdbreeze]

I suspect he might not want to comment, but has @Tomdbreeze had anything to suggest the very latest vans might be better or if there's been any recognition of a faulty batch of bellows / design flaw?

So just speaking to Tim here at the Van Centre in regard to this we believe Volkswagen are aware of this issue.

What we can’t say that vehicles that have recently been built are 100% affected by this.

We had ordered a few bellows as stock for ongoing issues we have that Volkswagen have recalled. This is the most amount of info we have.

 

[RockinNRollin]

So just speaking to Tim here at the Van Centre in regard to this we believe Volkswagen are aware of this issue.

What we can’t say that vehicles that have recently been built are 100% affected by this.

We had ordered a few bellows as stock for ongoing issues we have that Volkswagen have recalled. This is the most amount of info we have.

Thank you - interesting information. Do we know if there's been a revision to the design?

 

[Tomdbreeze]

Thank you - interesting information. Do we know if there's been a revision to the design?

Will be completely honest I don’t know.

 

[RockinNRollin]

Will be completely honest I don’t know.

Thanks Tom, I (and others no doubt) appreciate the honesty and clarity. I am hoping mine will survive the numerous trips I have booked in over the next two months!

 

[Tomdbreeze]

Thanks Tom, I (and others no doubt) appreciate the honesty and clarity. I am hoping mine will survive the numerous trips I have booked in over the next two months!

100% at the end of the day I’d rather be clear with this and give as much of an update as I can.

Hope yours is all okay!

 

[calibusje]

Yes, they leak; the newly made fabric of the last t6.1 calis are leaking but it seems (that's how you read it on various forums and Facebook pages) this will be okay after a few times in the rain and indeed meanwhile: leaks. The seams will normally close up and become leak-proof. Good luck (by the way, you have a tent cloth with insulating inside; I wish they put this with all t6.1 calis from the start).

 

[Jeaniethecali]

Yes, they leak; the newly made fabric of the last t6.1 calis are leaking but it seems (that's how you read it on various forums and Facebook pages) this will be okay after a few times in the rain and indeed meanwhile: leaks. The seams will normally close up and become leak-proof. Good luck (by the way, you have a tent cloth with insulating inside; I wish they put this with all t6.1 calis from the start).

Hi all. As the initiator of this thread I thought I'd give a quick update (and to dismiss the myth that the fabric/seems will eventually seal themselves. We are currently away in Northumberland and last night it threw it down. After about 3 hours the fabric started to leak. You could actually see the fabric on the front of the bellows change colour (see the attached photo).
I'd come prepared with microfiber towels which I placed on the ledge at the bottom.
In the morning I could literally wring the towels out.
The van is now 4 months old and has had several soakings (some natural and some by me) and the fabric leaks more now than ever.
The van is finally in next week for the problem and hopefully a new bellows.
Hopefully then we can use it without having to worry about the rain.

 

[Corradobrit]

I'm sure mine will also leak given enough exposure to the rain. I'll wait another 6 months and then take it in to the dealer when I have the leak at the back fixed. Hopefully by them I will have a few disturbing photos to back my case. As more and more disgruntled new owners log their tales of woe I hope VW will issue a Tech Bulletin and there will be no quibbling about whether or not it's 'normal'. I also want to be sure whatever work is done really does fix the problem as I think someone here said their second set of bellows also leaked.
Very sad to see this as I really like the new bellows material.

 

[calibusje]

Hi all. As the initiator of this thread I thought I'd give a quick update (and to dismiss the myth that the fabric/seems will eventually seal themselves. We are currently away in Northumberland and last night it threw it down. After about 3 hours the fabric started to leak. You could actually see the fabric on the front of the bellows change colour (see the attached photo).
I'd come prepared with microfiber towels which I placed on the ledge at the bottom.
In the morning I could literally wring the towels out.
The van is now 4 months old and has had several soakings (some natural and some by me) and the fabric leaks more now than ever.
The van is finally in next week for the problem and hopefully a new bellows.
Hopefully then we can use it without having to worry about the rain.

View attachment 111361

Ouch! Well then you really don't have a good tentfabric. I don’t have that new fabric (although I would like to have it). Sorry for taking part in spreading the myth but there are still some where it has been solved without having new bellows.

 

[BeeBee]

I’ve been following this thread and it’s shocking to hear what’s happening with this, it appears, particular batch of T6.1 vans bellows.
There should be a joint ‘almighty outcry’ to VW having spent this kind of money on a vehicle and the resultant upset and hassle it is causing owners. It is a fundamental aspect of a ‘camping vehicle’ and obviously not fit for purpose.
We have a T6 (2019) and at times think if we had experienced this with the pop top in our van it would have put us in a very dark place. I’m astounded by the very positive and resilient noises coming from all of you.
A united front via this forum may be a way of ‘forcing the issue’.