A noise that warrants concern? 2.5 TDI BZN Engine (California SE 130, 2008, 95k miles)

[Cali Cali Cali]

Hi all,

So, I'm really looking for someone with an engineers ear here, someone who knows what these engines are supposed to sound like, am I imagining this or does the inside of my engine sound like there's a mouse in there with a spoon smacking the inside of a tin can?

I know this might be me just overthinking it / lack of engine knowledge (it's our first Cali, she ain't brand new, she's got 95k and we do try to sort out any and all issues as we wanna keep her running sweet)
However, I've been noticing on the odd occasion a very charred / burning smell (a bit like the smell of burned Firestarters for a BBQ), again probably normal for dirty diesel engine?

Today, I started the engine, and noticed the smell again, decided to check the engine bay and did something probably not recommended, and opened the Oil filler cap - with engine running -, but when I opened it, the sound was immediately very concerning to my ears, it literally almost sounded like there was no oil and metal was smacking metal.
Is this a normal sound?
I've got a link to a video I'm sharing via google photos (not sure if it's allowed but hopefully is ok).

Engine Noises_T5_BZN_2.5L_TDI_SakuraCali

New item added to shared album

photos.app.goo.gl

You can really notice the sound I'm trying to describe at 45 seconds into the video.

Please could anyone (mechanics / engine specialists ?) have a listen and tell me if this is normal for the Engine type / model / year in the title?

My father's a mechanic and has said to do a full oil change / filter change immediately then revaluate.
After reviewing the service history again, I noticed it's last full major was in 2017 at 80k odd miles - but although it stated an oil change and filter, the list also only stated that 1Ltr of Castrol 5W30 was priced up (so only a top up), and since then it's only had 'interval' service history. So I am suspecting it's not had a full on oil replacement for quite some time.

If you can spare any thoughts, I'd greatly appreciate it,

Craig

 

[WelshGas]

Hi all,

So, I'm really looking for someone with an engineers ear here, someone who knows what these engines are supposed to sound like, am I imagining this or does the inside of my engine sound like there's a mouse in there with a spoon smacking the inside of a tin can?

I know this might be me just overthinking it / lack of engine knowledge (it's our first Cali, she ain't brand new, she's got 95k and we do try to sort out any and all issues as we wanna keep her running sweet)
However, I've been noticing on the odd occasion a very charred / burning smell (a bit like the smell of burned Firestarters for a BBQ), again probably normal for dirty diesel engine?

Today, I started the engine, and noticed the smell again, decided to check the engine bay and did something probably not recommended, and opened the Oil filler cap - with engine running -, but when I opened it, the sound was immediately very concerning to my ears, it literally almost sounded like there was no oil and metal was smacking metal.
Is this a normal sound?
I've got a link to a video I'm sharing via google photos (not sure if it's allowed but hopefully is ok).

Engine Noises_T5_BZN_2.5L_TDI_SakuraCali

New item added to shared album

photos.app.goo.gl

You can really notice the sound I'm trying to describe at 45 seconds into the video.

Please could anyone (mechanics / engine specialists ?) have a listen and tell me if this is normal for the Engine type / model / year in the title?

My father's a mechanic and has said to do a full oil change / filter change immediately then revaluate.
After reviewing the service history again, I noticed it's last full major was in 2017 at 80k odd miles - but although it stated an oil change and filter, the list also only stated that 1Ltr of Castrol 5W30 was priced up (so only a top up), and since then it's only had 'interval' service history. So I am suspecting it's not had a full on oil replacement for quite some time.

If you can spare any thoughts, I'd greatly appreciate it,

Craig

I’m not an expert on engines I’m afraid. But if there is any doubt on what services have been done and when, then I would agree with your father, a full service should be carried out.
On the south coast, SMG in Southampton and Breeze in Poole have some good reviews.

NEW: Trusted Volkswagen Dealer Partner - Breeze Poole

I have four snagging issues that need looking at and was worried who to trust with getting them sorted? They are all inside the van. I decide to trust Breeze Poole (booked in Aug 1st ) based on the forum . Also, travelling from near Bristol. Camping is a great idea. I I will consider doing that...

vwcaliforniaclub.com

 

[Cali Cali Cali]

Hey @WelshGas
Yeah I agree with you for sure, gonna carry out the full oil change (with our own hands) on Monday so we'll know for sure and re-evaluate after.
Also, Breeze poole is 5 mins away and already booked in drive along with a technician on Thursday to have a gander / figure out if it's been properly serviced.

Cheers

 

[pjm-84]

Oil change to see if you have any particles in the oil. I think the 2.5 has a timing chain.

If you cant hear it outside I wouldn't open up the cap to go listening inside.

 

[Azteccamper]

Hi all,

So, I'm really looking for someone with an engineers ear here, someone who knows what these engines are supposed to sound like, am I imagining this or does the inside of my engine sound like there's a mouse in there with a spoon smacking the inside of a tin can?

I know this might be me just overthinking it / lack of engine knowledge (it's our first Cali, she ain't brand new, she's got 95k and we do try to sort out any and all issues as we wanna keep her running sweet)
However, I've been noticing on the odd occasion a very charred / burning smell (a bit like the smell of burned Firestarters for a BBQ), again probably normal for dirty diesel engine?

Today, I started the engine, and noticed the smell again, decided to check the engine bay and did something probably not recommended, and opened the Oil filler cap - with engine running -, but when I opened it, the sound was immediately very concerning to my ears, it literally almost sounded like there was no oil and metal was smacking metal.
Is this a normal sound?
I've got a link to a video I'm sharing via google photos (not sure if it's allowed but hopefully is ok).

Engine Noises_T5_BZN_2.5L_TDI_SakuraCali

New item added to shared album

photos.app.goo.gl

You can really notice the sound I'm trying to describe at 45 seconds into the video.

Please could anyone (mechanics / engine specialists ?) have a listen and tell me if this is normal for the Engine type / model / year in the title?

My father's a mechanic and has said to do a full oil change / filter change immediately then revaluate.
After reviewing the service history again, I noticed it's last full major was in 2017 at 80k odd miles - but although it stated an oil change and filter, the list also only stated that 1Ltr of Castrol 5W30 was priced up (so only a top up), and since then it's only had 'interval' service history. So I am suspecting it's not had a full on oil replacement for quite some time.

If you can spare any thoughts, I'd greatly appreciate it,

Craig

Hi Craig. Firstly I’m no mechanic but I did own a 2007 2.5 BNZ transporter that was converted. They are noisy - when I first had mine I took it to VW who told me it was perfectly normal. They also said that an annual service and oil change was a must for this engine with the correct oil. No timing belt as it is gear driven.
I did as advised and sold it for my current Cali with 120k miles on the clock running sweetly. To this day still my favourite!
Give it good service and if still concerned get VW to give it the once over.

 

[Cali Cali Cali]

Cheers for all the responses,
@pjm-84 I agree, if you can't hear it outside, then it's more than likely supposed to sound like that.

@Azteccamper, much appreciate the response and good to hear from an ex owner of the same type and model of transporter, and reassured to hear that they're supposed to be this noisy.

It's shocking how loud they are, I've heard many diesels but yeah and I own a 2.0 caddy tdi 2013 and nothing as loud as this BNZ, but it's not a worrying loudness, it's just a beastly loudness.
Wish I could dampen the sound coming in to the cab a bit more, was thinking of trying one of those engine wraps, but can't see that being a good thing for air naturally cooilong the engine.

I have a question for you specifically,
So, when you were driving the BNZ, say up a slight incline in too high (low?) a gear, ie you're in 3rd but need to be in 2nd cos the revs are too low for the climb, so you release the accelerator to change gear, did you ever notice a strange grind / wheezing grind, coming from what sounds like to my ears the drive train /RH side.

Basically this happens to me when revs too low for the gear change and it's most prominent in going from 3rd down to 2nd, but can happen in similar situations on a 4th down to 3rd.

In normal driving on flat roads and changing at the appropriate revs, it never makes the noise - only really when on inclines and needing to dump from a high to lower gear.


Anyway, gonna do a full hands on device ourselves and evaluate the contents coming out of the sump. I have a feeling it's gonna be really old oil.


Cheers

Hi Craig. Firstly I’m no mechanic but I did own a 2007 2.5 BNZ transporter that was converted. They are noisy - when I first had mine I took it to VW who told me it was perfectly normal. They also said that an annual service and oil change was a must for this engine with the correct oil. No timing belt as it is gear driven.
I did as advised and sold it for my current Cali with 120k miles on the clock running sweetly. To this day still my favourite!
Give it good service and if still concerned get VW to give it the once over.

 

[Tim T]

Is this a normal sound?

I think there is a real danger of being hyper sensitive to a vehicle that's done 95K miles.

If you take the filler cap off and put your ear to the engine you will hear an abnormal sound simply because you don't normally listen to engines by doing this. Similarly if you labour an engine in too lower a gear it will start making different noises to what you usually hear. Cold engines on start up often have odd smells, especially if you start them in garages (you should be in the garage when I start my vintage Massey - week old wet BBQ ashes...).

I'm really trying only to be helpful here, if you want a second opinion from an expert then take it to a garage for a full service, don't do just the engine yourself as there is a very real danger that you will continue to be hyper sensitive.

What you want is for a garage to have the vehicle on the ramp, check for leaks, check wheel bearings, suspension, steering and brakes, service ALL the fluids then tell you that the van is in great condition.

Honestly, inside a crankcase of an engine is a remarkably simple machine and if there is any significant wear then look for significant blow-by when you pop the oil and not the sound of the valve train that will always make a ticking/tapping sound that sounds louder the closer you stick your ear...

So get it serviced, on a ramp, then see how well it runs in normal operation regards power, fuel consumption, ease of starting.

Remember, diesels have a heart and soul and the older ones seem to excel in making odd noises (probably quite deliberately) in order to rattle their owners in search of an easier life and lighter right foot. Sometimes they just need to be driven normally. ;-)

 

[Lambeth Cali]

Cheers for all the responses,
@pjm-84 I agree, if you can't hear it outside, then it's more than likely supposed to sound like that.

@Azteccamper, much appreciate the response and good to hear from an ex owner of the same type and model of transporter, and reassured to hear that they're supposed to be this noisy.

It's shocking how loud they are, I've heard many diesels but yeah and I own a 2.0 caddy tdi 2013 and nothing as loud as this BNZ, but it's not a worrying loudness, it's just a beastly loudness.
Wish I could dampen the sound coming in to the cab a bit more, was thinking of trying one of those engine wraps, but can't see that being a good thing for air naturally cooilong the engine.

I have a question for you specifically,
So, when you were driving the BNZ, say up a slight incline in too high (low?) a gear, ie you're in 3rd but need to be in 2nd cos the revs are too low for the climb, so you release the accelerator to change gear, did you ever notice a strange grind / wheezing grind, coming from what sounds like to my ears the drive train /RH side.

Basically this happens to me when revs too low for the gear change and it's most prominent in going from 3rd down to 2nd, but can happen in similar situations on a 4th down to 3rd.

In normal driving on flat roads and changing at the appropriate revs, it never makes the noise - only really when on inclines and needing to dump from a high to lower gear.


Anyway, gonna do a full hands on device ourselves and evaluate the contents coming out of the sump. I have a feeling it's gonna be really old oil.


Cheers

Hi
I have a 2008 2.5 California which I’ve had since 2009, but with nearer 55k miles.

I would say it is pretty loud when listening from the outside. I drove to work this morning in it and was thinking how quiet it was inside the cab. I’m surprised you mention it being noisy. Is that when cruising along or at idle? I can imagine at idle it may be loud but when moving in 3rd or above I think it’s pretty amazingly quiet.
If you’re talking about noise at idle then I would agree with those saying that’s normal and you probably shouldn’t worry.
I would say that mine does occasionally make some odd noises when changing gear and very occasionally almost seems to do a little stutter. It’s also true that I gets louder and sounds stressed when going up a steep hill. Occasionally Waze sends me up something bonkers and it makes a racket but then the California is a very heavy vehicle and so that seems logical. Mine is an auto though so makes it’s own gear choices!

On the whole I think it’s a fabulous and epically sturdy engine. I have a great local VW specialist garage and do oil change every 12 months. Hopefully with a good service yours will be fine. You are very lucky to have one of the only good dealers on your doorstep.

 

[Azteccamper]

Cheers for all the responses,
@pjm-84 I agree, if you can't hear it outside, then it's more than likely supposed to sound like that.

@Azteccamper, much appreciate the response and good to hear from an ex owner of the same type and model of transporter, and reassured to hear that they're supposed to be this noisy.

It's shocking how loud they are, I've heard many diesels but yeah and I own a 2.0 caddy tdi 2013 and nothing as loud as this BNZ, but it's not a worrying loudness, it's just a beastly loudness.
Wish I could dampen the sound coming in to the cab a bit more, was thinking of trying one of those engine wraps, but can't see that being a good thing for air naturally cooilong the engine.

I have a question for you specifically,
So, when you were driving the BNZ, say up a slight incline in too high (low?) a gear, ie you're in 3rd but need to be in 2nd cos the revs are too low for the climb, so you release the accelerator to change gear, did you ever notice a strange grind / wheezing grind, coming from what sounds like to my ears the drive train /RH side.

Basically this happens to me when revs too low for the gear change and it's most prominent in going from 3rd down to 2nd, but can happen in similar situations on a 4th down to 3rd.

In normal driving on flat roads and changing at the appropriate revs, it never makes the noise - only really when on inclines and needing to dump from a high to lower gear.


Anyway, gonna do a full hands on device ourselves and evaluate the contents coming out of the sump. I have a feeling it's gonna be really old oil.


Cheers

A couple have responded, but what you are hearing / feeling / smelling sounds all too familiar. I did have to have the usual age related items replaced but the van was always a good drive. The only issue I had with mine was the dpf so that was sorted but again this was after 90k miles. For peace of mind give it a good service , a good check over by someone who knows and understands this engine (they are a bit different and can be expensive to sort out) and enjoy it.

 

[Cali Cali Cali]

Hi all (@Tim T @Lambeth Cali @Azteccamper )

So thank you all for your reassuring comments, I think you all put my mind to rest.
It's just its our first MAJOR purchase and well you just tend to have irrationally high expectations that for the money we paid, it should an outstanding solid bit of kit, but then you have to remember, it's a motor at the end of the day and even 200 grand Bentleys love to have issues too.

I deffo agree with you @Tim T if I go listening for sounds where you wouldn't normally listen for them I'm going to hear unexpected things about which I have no knowledge and jump to unfounded conclusions. So no more sticking my ear down the filler tube hah!

However as an update,

We carried out full oil change today with 5w30 LL 507 CASTROL EDGE.
As soon as my dad put the socket to the sump plug it was evident it was already loose, didn't need to wrench the thing open at all, so that might explain the slight dip in oil level recently.

What was more evident was how utterly black and thin and watery the oil coming out was (literally looked like and flowed like water, no gloopy / heaviness to it) and apparently it had a full oil change less than a 1000 miles ago?

Anyway new filter in / 7.4 ish litres new in / no flush or treatment added and took her for a run,

MY GOD, very different in sound (nope, not just my imagination) is now noticeably quiter especially in the cab and has a more soft humming (wob wob wob) than the high tone clattery sound from before.

The drive through all gears up to 6th at 80mph just felt like it was having far less trouble than before, felt like it was really working hard before.

So, advice taken and learned.
Gonna book in at Poole breeze later in the summer for a major service as I trust they have the reputation to the job properly and fully to spec unlike the previous random service centres did previously in the service history.

Is it true VW BREEZE take and provide video evidence of the work they do on your van when in for a service? I remember seeing a video once where a technician was videoing for a customer and going over all the checks and stuff they did on a customers car.

Craig

 

[2into1]

I've a 2006 BNZ Cali with 124k miles and it sounds exactly like yours (before you started taking the cap off). When you did that, I think the microphone got a bit excited. Mine doesn't sound great without the cap.
There was a great member here a few years ago that was a senior mechanic at smg (I think) (vwguru) who spoke really highly of these engines.... Their power and longevity.
The earlier {pre dpf) ones were particularly picky about oil and suffered camshaft wear. The 2006 onwards were much better (with dpf... =the bnz in 130hp form).
Mine is smelly too. I've been chasing leaks (exhaust and crankshaft gas) for 3 years without success.... I think that's just the way they are.

 

[2into1]

and very occasionally almost seems to do a little stutter.

Interesting. My 2006 bnz has this, only under very gentle acceleration. A heavier foot stops it. It goes away if if I unplug the MAF. I replaced the MAF but didn't solve it.
It only does it when warm. My attention is moving to the egr valve which I suspect is a bit sticky with carbon build up... Not sticky enough to throw a code. It should shut when the engine calls for power and the ecu is expecting it to shut and fuel accordingly, but I think it is sometimes staying open and momentarily being staved of fuel/air. A heavier boot causes it to close and all is good.
Unplugging the valve makes it go away but essentially puts it all on a default 'map' so it doesn't identify it directly. Let me know if this is similar to your issue, or if others are reading this far, tell me how my logic sounds.

 

[Elmo3]

I have a 2009 BNZ with 115K miles. It’s not the quietest of engines on idle but goes very well and quietly. I’m about to change the oil again after less than a year and 3,000 miles. You can’t do it often enough IMHO. I’d be tempted to change yours again after 1,000 miles.

 

[Lambeth Cali]

Interesting. My 2006 bnz has this, only under very gentle acceleration. A heavier foot stops it. It goes away if if I unplug the MAF. I replaced the MAF but didn't solve it.
It only does it when warm. My attention is moving to the egr valve which I suspect is a bit sticky with carbon build up... Not sticky enough to throw a code. It should shut when the engine calls for power and the ecu is expecting it to shut and fuel accordingly, but I think it is sometimes staying open and momentarily being staved of fuel/air. A heavier boot causes it to close and all is good.
Unplugging the valve makes it go away but essentially puts it all on a default 'map' so it doesn't identify it directly. Let me know if this is similar to your issue, or if others are reading this far, tell me how my logic sounds.

Yeah that sounds similar. I‘m not doing anything to fix it though. It doesn’t worry me. I mean it’s 14 years old and isn’t getting worse or more frequent. I basically believe the engine will outlive me, and I just have to keep the camping stuff working because nobody else will. Certainly not VW. I’m done with them. Basically I need the fridge and the roof to keep going up and down. I don’t use heater.

It doesn’t stutter often, just occasionally.

Since I got Continental Vancontact tyres my van runs virtually silently on motorways. Can’t hear engine, wind or road. I think it’s blooming impressive.

 

[Cali Cali Cali]

Wow, this thread just keeps on giving.

@2into1 hey ya, thank you for the reassuring response and letting me know about VWGURU and their comments about this engine. I'm starting to hear more and more about the robustness of this particular engine and to hear multiple people tell me mine sounds exactly like theirs, all the more reassuring


Regarding the stutter you all mentioned, mine doesn't do that while accelerating but it does on the very odd occasion have a weird judder when in idle when stopped in traffic for example. It did this both before and after the clutch and DMF replacement we had done in Sept 2021.

@Elmo3 yeah I know what you mean. I'm thinking of scheduling in more than the recommended oil changes as they're super easy enough to do yourself. Will do one again end of summer after the camping season wraps up.

 

[Azteccamper]

Wow, this thread just keeps on giving.

@2into1 hey ya, thank you for the reassuring response and letting me know about VWGURU and their comments about this engine. I'm starting to hear more and more about the robustness of this particular engine and to hear multiple people tell me mine sounds exactly like theirs, all the more reassuring


Regarding the stutter you all mentioned, mine doesn't do that while accelerating but it does on the very odd occasion have a weird judder when in idle when stopped in traffic for example. It did this both before and after the clutch and DMF replacement we had done in Sept 2021.

@Elmo3 yeah I know what you mean. I'm thinking of scheduling in more than the recommended oil changes as they're super easy enough to do yourself. Will do one again end of summer after the camping season wraps up.

That could be a dpf issue. Might need a good blast on motorway at 2000+ revs for 15 mins to perform regen.

 

[Cali Cali Cali]

That could be a dpf issue. Might need a good blast on motorway at 2000+ revs for 15 mins to perform regen.

Yeah I read about doing this in the Haynes manual, and especially as the engine is over the 90k mark, it's recommended to keep an eye on the DPF every 20k miles apparently.

I will give it blast at the weekend.
It's really only happened I think twice and once engine is off and use the next day, it's completely back to normal.

 

[WelshGas]

Yeah I read about doing this in the Haynes manual, and especially as the engine is over the 90k mark, it's recommended to keep an eye on the DPF every 20k miles apparently.

I will give it blast at the weekend.
It's really only happened I think twice and once engine is off and use the next day, it's completely back to normal.

The DPF is reckoned to have a lifespan of 120,000 miles, give or take, depending on the type of driving etc.

 

[Crasher]

Hi
Purchase a 2009 with 100 000miles on clock same as you sat with same oil and not used for 3 year.Oil flush and new oil filter fuel filter engine drive couplings for aircon and alternator. Big job front end off.Recommended at 100 000 miles l think. My engine was knocking worse than yours on cold start up since using regular has quietened down considerably. Advised to add a cup full of lucas oil treatment also.Super van now slowly sorting all different inherited issues .Also had vw tech listen and confirmed it was sweet ant great engines if looked after.Enjoy.

 

[Paulmc]

Hi all,

So, I'm really looking for someone with an engineers ear here, someone who knows what these engines are supposed to sound like, am I imagining this or does the inside of my engine sound like there's a mouse in there with a spoon smacking the inside of a tin can?

I know this might be me just overthinking it / lack of engine knowledge (it's our first Cali, she ain't brand new, she's got 95k and we do try to sort out any and all issues as we wanna keep her running sweet)
However, I've been noticing on the odd occasion a very charred / burning smell (a bit like the smell of burned Firestarters for a BBQ), again probably normal for dirty diesel engine?

Today, I started the engine, and noticed the smell again, decided to check the engine bay and did something probably not recommended, and opened the Oil filler cap - with engine running -, but when I opened it, the sound was immediately very concerning to my ears, it literally almost sounded like there was no oil and metal was smacking metal.
Is this a normal sound?
I've got a link to a video I'm sharing via google photos (not sure if it's allowed but hopefully is ok).

Engine Noises_T5_BZN_2.5L_TDI_SakuraCali

New item added to shared album

photos.app.goo.gl

You can really notice the sound I'm trying to describe at 45 seconds into the video.

Please could anyone (mechanics / engine specialists ?) have a listen and tell me if this is normal for the Engine type / model / year in the title?

My father's a mechanic and has said to do a full oil change / filter change immediately then revaluate.
After reviewing the service history again, I noticed it's last full major was in 2017 at 80k odd miles - but although it stated an oil change and filter, the list also only stated that 1Ltr of Castrol 5W30 was priced up (so only a top up), and since then it's only had 'interval' service history. So I am suspecting it's not had a full on oil replacement for quite some time.

If you can spare any thoughts, I'd greatly appreciate it,

Craig

These 2.5 engines suffer with camshaft/follower wear.The biggest giveaway apart from the metalic noise is a 'popping' noise in air filter box. Its because the exhaust cam wears away hardly opening the exhaust valve forcing air /combustion back up the inlet valve to the intake/air box. Even at this mileage if there is a breakdown in lubrication/infrequent etc oil change the case hardening on the cam lobes can wear through and once it does the lobe wears down very quickly and wears through the follower allowing oil pressure to escape from the tappet creating the clattering noise too.

 

[2into1]

These 2.5 engines suffer with camshaft/follower wear.The biggest giveaway apart from the metalic noise is a 'popping' noise in air filter box. Its because the exhaust cam wears away hardly opening the exhaust valve forcing air /combustion back up the inlet valve to the intake/air box. Even at this mileage if there is a breakdown in lubrication/infrequent etc oil change the case hardening on the cam lobes can wear through and once it does the lobe wears down very quickly and wears through the follower allowing oil pressure to escape from the tappet creating the clattering noise too.

This seems to refer to the problem with the axd engines used up 2005/6 and replaced in 2006 with the bnz with a dpf. There were variations on name depending on 130/174 hp versions, but the letters changed a to b with the changes.

 

[steve_b]

Thread resurrection but I used to get an occasional stutter when booting to accelerate up a big hill. Not noticed it since we replaced the 'moo' valve (n75 valve?) that used to make the moo noise at engine shutoff. Not sure if the 2 are related but the moo valve is something to do with turbo pressure so could be. Use genuine vw or pierburg, not eBay.

2.5 bnz , 2008, 160,000 miles, drives like a charm and sounds like a tractor