Beware buying diesels

[Annik]

Tomorrows daily liar headline.

Media is really getting heavy on this now

 

[T6 CFO]

Another in depth piece of journalism by the Mail ?


Mike

 

[Hotel California]

Been discussing this frequent on here and we all know diesels getting banned in citys within' time.

https://vwcaliforniaclub.com/threads/diesel-calis-how-long-have-they-got-left.16186/page-2

https://vwcaliforniaclub.com/threads/petrol.11553/page-2#post-192770

https://vwcaliforniaclub.com/threads/next-car-sustainability-our-planet.16012/#post-176460

https://vwcaliforniaclub.com/threads/french-city-vignettes.16993/

https://vwcaliforniaclub.com/threads/air-quality-certificate-for-france.17097/#post-193249

https://vwcaliforniaclub.com/threads/emissions-stickers.17154/#post-193898

 

[B J G]

T6 owners take heart as it seems Euro 6 is being recognised in the London Diesel surcharge and beware buying a cheap petrol, guess that includes my Historic old car

To quote
Only diesel vehicles meeting the Euro 6 emissions standard will be exempt, while petrol cars registered before 2006 will also have to pay.

Seems to be 'current' Politically Correct route for today's Politicians.
On Trend etc.

 

[Black Sheep]

 

[Rich20]

Just another nail in the coffin for people's freedom of choice. Firstly encouraged to buy a diesel and now they are going to crack down on them. As long as it raises the politicians in the popularity contest, they will follow any path that gets them there.

Touch paper lit, now stand well back.

 

[Velma's Dad]

This is bound to be a slow process in the UK because of the large 'population' of diesels, including more than 20,000 London black cabs.

We don't live in an urban area (and try to use our petrol car on rare occasions we drive into London) so I don't feel so bad about continuing to own diesels for the time being. But given the harm that high concentrations of NOx and particulates is now known to cause, I'd support a measured and sensible plan (eg through taxation) to reduce diesel use in cities, which currently is killing some people and compromising the health of a lot more.

I don't personally have much time for 'nanny state' arguments on this one. Until the 1970s we used leaded petrol while unwittingly brain-damaging kids. We know better now.

 

[GrannyJen]

This is a bit like coal. It was economically unviable to ban it in the cities and really, look at all the other things killing us.

Then came the great smog of 1952. Up to 20,000 Londoners lost their lives, although that is probably just a fraction of how many were routinely killed by toxic air in the cotton and woollen mill towns and other industrial centres. Something had to be done and it was the clean air act. Even so I can still remember walking to school and nearly choking in later smogs, such as 1959, and coughing up black, tarry phlegm.

Banning coal from being burnt in cities, or scrubbing power station chimneys with their equivalent of adblu, did not cause economic catastrophe, wipe out millions of jobs or cause people to drastically change their lives. If ways to burn diesel cleanly are not found it will be a measured process towards elimination that would probably take twice the lifetime of a new T6. As older, more unclean engines are removed from urban areas so more and more technology will be applied to the shrinking numbers of diesel engines until none are left.

At the end of the day an innocent child should be allowed to grow up without having to breath in emissions that we know to be harmful. If we know it and can prove it then lets either detoxify or remove.

 

[jts46]

Burning wood in wood burners is now getting a bad press re: co2

 

[Velma's Dad]

Burning wood in wood burners is now getting a bad press re: co2

Not quite. CO2 (ie as a greehouse gas causing global warning - or not, if you reject the scientific consensus) isn't an issue with woodburning stoves because burning wood, unlike fossil fuels, doesn't create any net extra long term CO2 within the carbon cycle.

The issue with stoves is the particulates, ie one of the same pollutants under discussion here re diesels. However, a woodburning stove doesn't usually emit the pollutants directly where people are walking, ie at street level, so it's much less of an issue although still does contribute to poor air quality in cities.

(In the interests of full disclosure: we've had woodburners in all our houses for the last 25 years - we've always installed Clearviews which were the first 'low emissions' stove design although now there are lots of other good makes).

 

[B J G]

Not quite. CO2 (ie as a greehouse gas causing global warning - or not, if you reject the scientific consensus) isn't an issue with woodburning stoves because burning wood, unlike fossil fuels, doesn't create any net extra long term CO2 within the carbon cycle.

The issue with stoves is the particulates, ie one of the same pollutants under discussion here re diesels. However, a woodburning stove doesn't usually emit the pollutants directly where people are walking, ie at street level, so it's much less of an issue although still does contribute to poor air quality in cities.

(In the interests of full disclosure: we've had woodburners in all our houses for the last 25 years - we've always installed Clearviews which were the first 'low emissions' stove design although now there are lots of other good makes).

Nothing that a Particulate Filter & maybe an EGR wouldn't cure then?

 

[Black Sheep]

[QUOTE="At the end of the day an innocent child should be allowed to grow up without having to breath in emissions that we know to be harmful. If we know it and can prove it then lets either detoxify or remove.[/QUOTE]

I agree with you Granny Jen. You have made a very good point and my daft post above was not intended to undermine this serious issue. I do find it a bit frustrating and confusing when the so called 'experts' keep changing their advice about the impact of different engines etc. on the environment.

 

[GrannyJen]

[QUOTE="At the end of the day an innocent child should be allowed to grow up without having to breath in emissions that we know to be harmful. If we know it and can prove it then lets either detoxify or remove.

I agree with you Granny Jen. You have made a very good point and my daft post above was not intended to undermine this serious issue. I do find it a bit frustrating and confusing when the so called 'experts' keep changing their advice about the impact of different engines etc. on the environment.[/QUOTE]

I thought your post was quite funny

It appears that the "experts" and politicians in this instance suffered from severe myopia caused by headline effects of one pollutant diverting attention from the effects of a lesser understood "lesser" pollutant.

 

[Velma's Dad]

It appears that the "experts" and politicians in this instance suffered from severe myopia caused by headline effects of one pollutant diverting attention from the effects of a lesser understood "lesser" pollutant.

That seems a fair analysis. Rarely, at least one former government minister has been prepared to go on record and admit they got it wrong:
https://www.theguardian.com/environ...ars-been-unfairly-demonised-for-air-pollution

 

[Meoncoast]

If you want a Cali at the moment not a lot you can do.

buy a tent and a horse.

http://www.hillsideleisure.co.uk/blog/electric-campervan/

 

[briwy]

Perhaps they'll change their minds again in a couple of years.
Bit like advice on what food you can eat. One minute you are going to die if you you a certain product, next it's good for you.

 

[larrylamb]

(In the interests of full disclosure: we've had woodburners in all our houses for the last 25 years - we've always installed Clearviews which were the first 'low emissions' stove design although now there are lots of other good makes).

Love our Clearview. Hmmm, anyone up for a log burner thread in the Off Topic section?

 

[Velma's Dad]

Love our Clearview. Hmmm, anyone up for a log burner thread in the Off Topic section?

I'm up for that. But have you tried a logburner in your Cali then?

 

[Stoneybroke]

Not quite. CO2 (ie as a greehouse gas causing global warning - or not, if you reject the scientific consensus) isn't an issue with woodburning stoves because burning wood, unlike fossil fuels, doesn't create any net extra long term CO2 within the carbon cycle.

The issue with stoves is the particulates, ie one of the same pollutants under discussion here re diesels. However, a woodburning stove doesn't usually emit the pollutants directly where people are walking, ie at street level, so it's much less of an issue although still does contribute to poor air quality in cities.

(In the interests of full disclosure: we've had woodburners in all our houses for the last 25 years - we've always installed Clearviews which were the first 'low emissions' stove design although now there are lots of other good makes).

Local waste wood is fine, but the industrial importation of tons of wood pellets from overseas to feed subsidised users is far from carbon neutral, especially when the ships use filthy heavy fuel oil, which makes diesel look positively squeaky clean!
I'm afraid no fuel is perfect. Even hydrogen fuel cells, which emit only water, are imperfect as significant energy is required to produce the hydrogen...

 

[Stoneybroke]

I'm up for that. But have you tried a logburner in your Cali then?

Hope there's a Carbon monoxide alarm!

 

[alter]

I read this post and I think all over the world and 'the same country .... Even in Italy the problem of smog conditions our life. My Town has to live with an establishment that produces steel and fuel and 'coal !! On some days the wind carries the coal dust everywhere, but politicians do not have the courage to close the plant !! They say the smog comes from wood stoves and pellet !! Lately, many people use these stoves as an alternative to diesel fuel because 'they are more economical, one liter of heating oil costs us 1.5 euro! It will not be 'sure my new Cali Euro 6 ruining the environment!