Byelaws, pop-top and cooking

[Velma's Dad]

Interesting interpretation of the law, by North Yorkshire police, based on the guidance to determine what is a reasonable excuse for leaving the place you live. They were running checks on car registration addresses to see how far you’d travelled, sometimes issuing fines. One I know of was issued after they drove 8 miles to go for a walk

I realise the police have been trying to do the best they can but I find some of the statements in that notice very surprising. The statement that magistrates can interpret police or government guidance when deciding what is "reasonable" is highly questionable. Conviction in a court requires it to be proved that all the elements of an offence, as laid down in the relevant statute or regulation, are present. Magistrates may have regard to what they believe was the intention of parliament in making the law (that is called "statutory interpretation"). But they certainly will not have much time for prosecution speculation about what the police or the government thinks the law means.

That's not to say that a court won't draw its own conclusions from a specifics of an alleged offence when considering "reasonable excuse". If I had driven 30 miles to go grocery shopping, or on a 30 miles bike ride for exercise, the court might or might not decide that I had gone beyond the bounds of reasonableness for that purpose. It would depend on the evidence given in court of the particular circumstances.

The Law Society Gazette reported (24 Feb): "Almost a third of prosecutions made under the coronavirus regulations have been wrongly brought, leading to hundreds of cases being dropped. The latest figures from the Crown Prosecution Service showed that 359 of 1,252 charges last year were either withdrawn or quashed in court. All 232 prosecutions brought under the Coronavirus Act 2020 were flawed, and a further 127 wrongful charges were brought under the Health Protection Regulations."

 

[Cali Phillip]

Just looked it up (full lockdown Scottish law):

• Local outdoor recreation, sport or exercise, walking, cycling, golf, or running that starts and finishes at the same place (which can be up to 5 miles from the boundary of your local authority area) as long as you abide by the rules on meeting other households

Yes, 5 miles and not outside your home council area.
Two climbers from Oban were charged after a rescue in Glen Coe approx 7 miles from the Argyll and Bute border.
I heard yesterday that Police were checking vehicle registrations in visitor hot spots west of Fort William.

 

[AlisonF]

Yes, 5 miles and not outside your home council area.
Two climbers from Oban were charged after a rescue in Glen Coe approx 7 miles from the Argyll and Bute border.
I heard yesterday that Police were checking vehicle registrations in visitor hot spots west of Fort William.

It’s 5 miles outside your home council area as mentioned in the post above.

 

[Cali Phillip]

It’s 5 miles outside your home council area as mentioned in the post above.

Yes agreed, I did not use the best wording to make that clear.
Looking forward to staying overnight in the Cali at some point its been a while.

 

[Velma's Dad]

That's correct. In Scotland the regulations (ie the law) are specific about the distance you may travel for recreation or exercise. In England there has not been any such legal stipulation regardless of what some police forces may have said or implied.

 

[Amarillo]

It’s 5 miles outside your home council area as mentioned in the post above.

I expect that is “as the crow flies” rather than “as the road meanders”. And crucially you can go further so long as your walk’s, ride’s, paddle’s, etc. exercise starts and ends within the five mile limit.

It seems far more sensible that the English restriction.

 

[AlisonF]

I expect that is “as the crow flies” rather than “as the road meanders”. And crucially you can go further so long as your walk’s, ride’s, paddle’s, etc. exercise starts and ends within the five mile limit.

It seems far more sensible that the English restriction.

Maybe. But as Aberdeen City is entirely enclosed by Aberdeenshire and the sea - folk from the shire can travel from the north to south, whereas I cannot go far at all. So for example, friends much further north are travelling 40miles to train for agility. For me it is 15 miles but not allowed...

 

[WelshGas]

I expect that is “as the crow flies” rather than “as the road meanders”. And crucially you can go further so long as your walk’s, ride’s, paddle’s, etc. exercise starts and ends within the five mile limit.

It seems far more sensible that the English restriction.

Shows up the differences between the Devolved Administrations and England. Scotland and Wales have the SNP and Welsh Labour, both Left of Centre parties that believe in centralised government and control, hence rules and regulations backed by the Law, whereas England and N Ireland are governed by Right of Centre parties that tend towards individual responsibility and hence more Guidelines that were open to personal interpretation that were more selfish than for the wider community good.
Both methods have their supporters and detractors.
Fortunately the majority of the population worked for the greater good of their community and society as a whole or we wouldn't be where we are now.
I hope we continue to listen to all Government advice and put society first.

 

[Amarillo]

Maybe. But as Aberdeen City is entirely enclosed by Aberdeenshire and the sea - folk from the shire can travel from the north to south, whereas I cannot go far at all. So for example, friends much further north are travelling 40miles to train for agility. For me it is 15 miles but not allowed...

There are always going to be anomalies.

For the purposes of the legislation it would have been relatively easy to combine the inside and outside of doughnut or horseshoe shaped pairs of local authorities.

 

[AlisonF]

There are always going to be anomalies.

For the purposes of the legislation it would have been relatively easy to combine the inside and outside of doughnut or horseshoe shaped pairs of local authorities.

I agree. Those doing the above drive past within half a milf of my home... shire folk can go anywhere in the city as it’s smaller than 5 miles... yet we are locked in... it is crazy... and leading to a lot of people braking the rules... I live alone and this has destroyed me.
Fortunately a couple of local friends join me regularly for walks.

 

[Amarillo]

I agree. Those doing the above drive past within half a milf of my home... shire folk can go anywhere in the city as it’s smaller than 5 miles... yet we are locked in... it is crazy... and leading to a lot of people braking the rules... I live alone and this has destroyed me.
Fortunately a couple of local friends join me regularly for walks.

Some anomalies have been ironed out. The twins which I have occasionally given childcare to throughout the pandemic have their dad travel from Bristol to London every fortnight and they stay together in a hotel.

 

[AlisonF]

Some anomalies have been ironed out. The twins which I have occasionally given childcare to throughout the pandemic have their dad travel from Bristol to London every fortnight and they stay together in a hotel.

Indeed. All my neighbours have family living at home, yet have been able to form bubbles which I am unable to do as all my friends have already formed bubbles with parents / children.
Only 2 more weeks to go and I already have lots of agility training booked. Including a weekend camp un Cumbria with the nee Beach and Eriba. So trying to stay positive... the dogs certainly help as I am walking 2 x 6km walks daily... and today the sunnis shining so need to stop feeling sorry for myself and get on out there!
Pic after y’days walk.

 

[Velma's Dad]

Best pic of the day so far Alison. They are gorrrjeussss.

 

[GrannyJen]

and today the sunnis shining so need to stop feeling sorry for myself and get on out there!
Pic after y’days walk.

View attachment 76564

Sometimes it's ok to feel sorry for ones self.

This has been a most miserable year and the last three months possibly the most miserable for a lot of people. To be miserable, to have rubbish in life coming through the door, yet have no human contact, nowhere to de-stress and no one to de-stress with is intensely hard.

That gorgeous picture would cheer anyone up so it helps, but just a bit.

Smile days are coming, until then you know this forum is full of people that will be here for you.

 

[Vagophile]

Verra bonnie wee dugs @AlisonF