Cali rival to be made

[calikev]

http://www.westfalia-mobil.net/en/presse/clubjoker.php

 

[BMVS-Camper-Hire]

Surely it should be called club-joking!

 

[2into1]

Olli - Please enlighten us with your wisdom.

 

[BMVS-Camper-Hire]

Have you seen the pictures? Looks like a bull nose whale!

 

[BMVS-Camper-Hire]

It certainly won't win any beauty contests will it?

Just my tuppence as always

 

[2into1]

Well I was hoping you'd dig yourself a little deeper before I reply fully. Any more to add as a man who obviously understands the market better than Westfalia?

 

[BMVS-Camper-Hire]

Haha, I see your concerns, you have it's older brother. It's just not my cup of tea, or I'd run a fleet of them. I'm not saying I know the market more than anyone, am I?

Please don't take offence, as none was meant

 

[calikev]

I think it's like marmite you either like them or don't I think hi tops do have a use and I definatly
Think the idea of hot water and a shower is a good one.
It looks very simular to the t4 westafallia

 

[BMVS-Camper-Hire]

Well said Kev, it's lucky we are all different in what we like

 

[calikev]

Yes oli that's why I have been around the vw scene for 25 years going back to early bay window vans everybody's taste is different I have altered my van a little it may not be everybody's cup of tea but I like it if we were all the same the world would be a boring place. I went to a t4/t5 meet today mainly to prove to the others that Cali owners aren't snobs. In my opinion I like all vw's I have even seen a splittie with a bamboo interior it's mad and different also you get people spending thousands of pounds making their vans look rusty :rofl :rofl rat look they call it

 

[BMVS-Camper-Hire]

I've always been a modern day VW nut, for nearly the same amount of time as yourself. I'm not a massive fan of classic cars, I appreciate them for what they are . I love looking at splittys, but would prefer to drive something more modern. I'd always rather look at a new evolution of a car Golfs are my thing, and obviously for the last 8 years or so T5's as well.

I wonder is the rat look Cali will ever be a hit?

 

[calikev]

I've always been a modern day VW nut, for nearly the same amount of time as yourself. I'm not a massive fan of classic cars, I appreciate them for what they are . I love looking at splittys, but would prefer to drive something more modern. I'd always rather look at a new evolution of a car Golfs are my thing, and obviously for the last 8 years or so T5's as well.

I wonder is the rat look Cali will ever be a hit?

Rat look Cali now there's an idea :rofl :rofl :rofl

 

[BMVS-Camper-Hire]

Just need a can of paint stripper.......

 

[2into1]

No offence taken. I was hoping you'd expand your argument, because this is a debate I've been wanting for a while, and is well overdue.

About 2 years ago I got very close to spending £45K on a new Cali, but decided to buy a T4 Reimo pop-top first, so I could see if the camper-van life suited me. As it worked out, I did like the flexibility of a small van with affordable running costs, but just didn't get on with the side kitchen / pop-top layout.
After 2 T4's (wide and narrow units), I still didn't find the layout worked for me. I was constantly reaching over the back seat and cursing when I couldn't find what I wanted. The sliding seat was always in the wrong place to get into the cupboard I needed. As to the hassle involved in using a porta-potti, or cooking a meal whilst others were in the van.....it just didn't work for me. The only solution was to buy a Kyham awning with all the hassle that goes with that, particularly on a wet day.

My conclusion was that no matter how neat the design (and the VW T5 Cali is neat), no company is capable of overcoming the limits of a single living compartment layout designed for a rear-engined van in the 70's.

I don't think I'm alone. There are plenty of t5 cali's sold after a few months of ownership. As you hire Cali's you'll know better than me how many go on to buy one, but at least they try-first, which is clearly the sensible route.

So my little journey brings me to a T4 California Exclusive with the Smurf look. Its only a foot or so longer than a pop-top. It is tall and I can't use the upstairs car-park at IKEA, but I can live with that. The change in usability INSIDE is transformed.

We had a day out in it yesterday. I was at work in the kitchen, my wife was using the loo (in private) whilst my daughter played on her laptop in the lounge. All at the same time. Try doing that in a current Cali!

I'd love to put the new Westy T5 Smurf side by side with a VW pop top Cali, and get 100 families and Couples to say which they'd prefer. As I spend more time inside enjoying the space, rather than outside looking at my van, I know where I would be.

Should be a lively debate! It would be useful if those contributing could indicate if they have actually had a good look around a smurf westy or are just going on the exterior image.

 

[BMVS-Camper-Hire]

I just don't like it, when ever I see one, I always comment, on how they just don't work visually for me. I've never seen one close up, so would like a nose round one

I have three children, and the Caifornia suits me perfectly, with the fifth seat We always add the Khyam, and of late the awning sides, which make a massive difference to the size, increases the amount of beds, and give us lots more storage options on the campsite for bikes, kayaks etc.

The toilet issue is something that people always ask when I'm out exhibiting or on a campsite. I personally would rather have a toilet outside of such a confined living space for the middle of the night emergencies. The shower question is another that is asked, to which my answer is always that a campsite shower will always be better, that or use a solar one!

I love the compactness of the California, the fact you can still use it as everyday transport, and it blends in perfectly with other vehicles.

I'm glad you are loving yours as I'm sure you are me with my Cali's. if ever you are down my way please pop in, the kettle is always on, I love to look round campervans

 

[2into1]

Whilst I agree its not a direct rival for VW's Cali, I think it will take sales from the pop top, just as it did when the last of the T4's were made. (I'm not implying VW will be quaking in their boots!).

I'm afraid I don't agree with the VW heritage argument. The campervan heritage belongs to Westfalia (and others...Devon, Autosleeper etc). VW have just been great at developing great vans. The modern Cali is the first camper VW have built themselves. I understand they only built the modern Cali because westfalia was taken over by VW's competitor.

Where the vans do differ in their ability to be used as an everyday vehicle. A pop-top short wheel base is just about manageable as a day to day. My high top/LWB (and I guess the T5 Joker) will just be used for trips out and holidays.

Referring to Oli's points, it is really the days out / weekends where I think the smurfs excel. The types of trip where you wouldn't be bothered to build a separate awning or erect a loo tent.

I didn't value the loo before I had mine. It is handy as a loo (particularly with a young child) but the layout makes it best thought of as a changing room, as the door forms a cubicle with the loo, basin, 3-shelf cupboard with socket, mirror, and full height wardrobe.

James sums it up well - an interesting debate but one without an answer (other than one based on individual needs).

 

[James]

Whilst I agree its not a direct rival for VW's Cali, I think it will take sales from the pop top, just as it did when the last of the T4's were made. (I'm not implying VW will be quaking in their boots!).

I'm afraid I don't agree with the VW heritage argument. The campervan heritage belongs to Westfalia (and others...Devon, Autosleeper etc). VW have just been great at developing great vans. The modern Cali is the first camper VW have built themselves. I understand they only built the modern Cali because westfalia was taken over by VW's competitor.

Where the vans do differ in their ability to be used as an everyday vehicle. A pop-top short wheel base is just about manageable as a day to day. My high top/LWB (and I guess the T5 Joker) will just be used for trips out and holidays.

Referring to Oli's points, it is really the days out / weekends where I think the smurfs excel. The types of trip where you wouldn't be bothered to build a separate awning or erect a loo tent.

I didn't value the loo before I had mine. It is handy as a loo (particularly with a young child) but the layout makes it best thought of as a changing room, as the door forms a cubicle with the loo, basin, 3-shelf cupboard with socket, mirror, and full height wardrobe.

James sums it up well - an interesting debate but one without an answer (other than one based on individual needs).

I am sorry but I removed my post because i felt my post was pretty pointless, I did say it was pointless debate and yet I rambled on before getting to that.

So apologies for that.

With regards to heritage, who the heritage belongs may be debated in itself but it is clearly something VW are drawing on for the Cali. And yes, they built after Westfalia stopped making their conversions but it had to be a no brainer for VW, it would be like Porsche saying, hey, let's not build the 911 anymore. There is a huge VW Camper culture and as a company VW would have been mad not use that.

i bought my Beach in part, for the VW heritage, that might be nonsense but for me, if i am going to own a van/multivan/camper - it should be a VW. i realise that is idealistic nonsense to some degree and as a grown adult I should be more pragmatic about what is basically an expensive lump of metal but there you go.

With regards to stealing sales, lots of companies with good reputations offer T5 conversions and it does not seem to harm sales in the UK of the Cali, everyone seems to get along fine.

Now get me a late high spec German T4 Multivan... :cool

http://www.ebay.de/itm/VW-T4-Multivan-A ... 049wt_1186
James

 

[sidepod]

Lets hope they produce a pop top to compete with VW's. They are (were) a good company with a quality product and reputation.

Personally I'm not keen on the bulbous roof approach, prefering the pop top. (handraulic not electric please Westfalia?)

S.

 

[choplee]

Lets hope they produce a pop top to compete with VW's. They are (were) a good company with a quality product and reputation.

Personally I'm not keen on the bulbous roof approach, prefering the pop top. (handraulic not electric please Westfalia?)

S.

Glad you changed the "are" good .........they will have to really impress if they want to compete in the vw conversion market ,as it's not like the old days when vw & westy were a team and classed as being desirable ... they convert ford transit's and fiat ducato's now ,so there direction has taken a dip, as they didn't really bond with Merc and seem to be happy to convert anything ,as we know it's all about the money at the end of the day .... :doh

 

[James]

European tests pitch the California against the Mercedes Marco Polo - not that the Westy won't be a valid rival but factory approved conversions sit in a different bracket because that is one of the key selling points,

I also like the looks of the T5 - in my view particularly the facelift models, they are a good looking vehicle and though closer inspection reveals you're in a camper, outwardly by and large, it looks like van.

Mine has to double as an everyday vehicle and whilst a high top would mean more practicality for going away, practicality on a day to day basis would be less.

James

 

[Hubert]

Glad someone has started the ball rolling regarding the new Westfalia.
I looked st the web site after a previous post mentioned Westfalia were about to build again on a VW.
I have an open mind on all conversions, as, for me, they are a means of holidaying and not just to look at. I personally like the look of the Joker .
When I visit Germany I normally visit a couple of motorhome dealers, it's surprising how many German manufacturers adopt this type of roof.

Regarding quality, I looked at the Westfalia Nugget on the Ford Transit (and I didn't type dustbin :x ) and personally I thought the finish of the conversion was excellent and comparable with VW's (ignoring the base vehicle). The only advantage really is the warranty is covered by one company i.e. VW.
Let's face it, reading some posts on this site, VW still has some way to go for a few people.

I agree with wilupo7, the advantages of the high top might sway it for me if they decide to do a RHD version. Would like to see one in the flesh.

Hubert

 

[choplee]

I do love healthy competition and there are many conversion companies out there doing good and bad jobs ...least we all will not end up having the same campers otherwise it would be boring.
I've always been an old Vw campervan fan and just come over to the T5 and love it for different reasons.. I had a t2 westy and did love that ...so it's good that westy are going to start converting t5's other than the fords&fiats , as Vw base vans are a very good van compared to others

 

[James]

I do love healthy competition and there are many conversion companies out there doing good and bad jobs ...least we all will not end up having the same campers otherwise it would be boring.
I've always been an old Vw campervan fan and just come over to the T5 and love it for different reasons.. I had a t2 westy and did love that ...so it's good that westy are going to start converting t5's other than the fords&fiats , as Vw base vans are a very good van compared to others

Well said Lee

There has to be choice in the conversion market - all shapes and sizes

I had a similar choice before buying the Beach - I could have looked at a Kombi and had a van built, in theory all i needed was a bed in the back. So there was a choice between converting a Kombi or going for the Beach.

James

 

[David Eccles]

had chance to crawl over one of the Joker demo buses at Dusseldorf..
basically it comes down to motorhome vs compact camper easily usable for daily drive and other purposes
if you want bathrooms showers stand up all the time then go motorhome....the Westy Club Joker is branding itself using the past and is very nicely finished with lots of good well thought out touches...
as far as heritage goes the word VW and camper are basically synonomous..in part due to media portrayals over time...(dont get me started on this one!)...no they never made one till the Cali and only cos Westfalia taken over by rivals....only us bus freax know the Westy story to everyone else a VW Camper is what they all are!

 

[James]

had chance to crawl over one of the Joker demo buses at Dusseldorf..
basically it comes down to motorhome vs compact camper easily usable for daily drive and other purposes
if you want bathrooms showers stand up all the time then go motorhome....the Westy Club Joker is branding itself using the past and is very nicely finished with lots of good well thought out touches...
as far as heritage goes the word VW and camper are basically synonomous..in part due to media portrayals over time...(dont get me started on this one!)...no they never made one till the Cali and only cos Westfalia taken over by rivals....only us bus freax know the Westy story to everyone else a VW Camper is what they all are!

i am aware of the Westy story, and it might seem unfair that VW itself has taken the kudos for the camper image. But the whole VW Camper story has twists and turns.

My own Vanagon is a Westy, people sometimes forget that aside from the outright campers they made the multivans as well, something which VW later copied and continued with their own Multivans - one sliding door - fold out table from the sidewall?





James