Coil Springs Failing

[B J G]

08 Cali now on 70 K mls. When first bought, at 60 K mls, found the rear dipped so much over speed humps that the towbar bottomed & scraped. Got B6s fitted together with Graystone's rubber insert spring assisters in the original springs.

Now 10K later, pre MOT inspection reveals broken spring & disrupted spring mounts. All being replaced by trusted main dealer here in Exeter. Requested T32 springs but not allowed to fit as nonstandard.

The conversion to higher spec shocks plus inserts produced a wonderfully transformed controlled tight rear end. But suspect that the inserts restricted spring deflection so much that huge pressures were transferred to the spring mounts. Leads me to cease recommending this type of spring assister which has done sterling long term duty on 3 prior estates. But these ain't going back on the Cali!!!

Before uprating any rear springs due to a 'dragging' bottom' I'd advise getting the Cali weighed on a weighbridge with full travel mode items onboard, including driver and passengers. Check front axle, total load and rear axle.
Reason for this is simply to see if you are overloading any specific axle. If an axle is overloaded then unload the excess weight, check ride height and if too low then consider a spring change.
Spring upgrades do not increase the load capacity unless an expensive reclassification process by the DVSA is completed. Insurance would also need informing.

 

[Grumpy Mike]

My baby just failed MOT for rear coil springs and struggling to find any. Not just that all dealers want to discuss is she sports???? Just so confused.

None in stock at VW.

Can anyone advise where to go to get them quick and reasonable and what part number I need to be looking for..... Is it just that I am in a panic after MOT failure and desire to get them quick that I am failing at every hurdle?????

 

[Jay586]

You can probably have mine as they're probably getting changed tomorrow!

 

[Grumpy Mike]

You can probably have mine as they're probably getting changed tomorrow!

Jay586, Have??? Would you not want something for them?
When you say probably?

 

[Jay586]

Jay586, Have??? Would you not want something for them?
When you say probably?

Pm'd you.

 

[B J G]

My baby just failed MOT for rear coil springs and struggling to find any. Not just that all dealers want to discuss is she sports???? Just so confused.

None in stock at VW.

Can anyone advise where to go to get them quick and reasonable and what part number I need to be looking for..... Is it just that I am in a panic after MOT failure and desire to get them quick that I am failing at every hurdle?????

If all else fails these are reputedly used on the Cali. At the price might be worth getting as a spare set.

Pardon our interruption...

www.ebay.co.uk

 

[Grumpy Mike]

If all else fails these are reputedly used on the Cali. At the price might be worth getting as a spare set.

Pardon our interruption...

www.ebay.co.uk

BJG, thanks for that. Are these defy for a Cali? Im obviously not mechanically minded.

 

[soulstyledevon]

If all else fails these are reputedly used on the Cali. At the price might be worth getting as a spare set.

Pardon our interruption...

www.ebay.co.uk

Crap bag.
Wish i had seen this earlier. Im getting a single after market spring replaced tomorrow as a temporary solution.
Could've of driven and picked these up...

Think im gonna try some Bilstein coilers next, as im currently in the process of changing jobs and will end up with a company car. Which means the Cali will no longer be used for everyday use.

 

[CALI FATE]

Give Steve a call at CRS Performance - i am in the process of fitting new Koni suspension to the front of my van. Part of the upgrade involved me measuring the gap between the centre of the rear wheel and the wheel arch - mine was particularly saggy from the factory - Steve has sent me a pair of uprated rear springs to fit / lift the rear to the correct height. He says he removes lots of springs as upgrading to coil overs is a popular mod in the T5 T6 world - in a week or so i will have a pair of rear springs going free too.

 

[Grumpy Mike]

Give Steve a call at CRS Performance - i am in the process of fitting new Koni suspension to the front of my van. Part of the upgrade involved me measuring the gap between the centre of the rear wheel and the wheel arch - mine was particularly saggy from the factory - Steve has sent me a pair of uprated rear springs to fit / lift the rear to the correct height. He says he removes lots of springs as upgrading to coil overs is a popular mod in the T5 T6 world - in a week or so i will have a pair of rear springs going free too.

Thanks for that. Looks like I will go for the T32 ones above. So confused but think they will do the job and can get quickly.

Thanks Again

 

[soulstyledevon]

Give Steve a call at CRS Performance - i am in the process of fitting new Koni suspension to the front of my van. Part of the upgrade involved me measuring the gap between the centre of the rear wheel and the wheel arch - mine was particularly saggy from the factory - Steve has sent me a pair of uprated rear springs to fit / lift the rear to the correct height. He says he removes lots of springs as upgrading to coil overs is a popular mod in the T5 T6 world - in a week or so i will have a pair of rear springs going free too.

Just be careful how much the rear end is lifted.
Steve lift my rear end, the van was less planted and sloped forward which meant sleeping up in the roof, I was forever feeling upside down.
I had to remove the spacers in the end.

I wouldn’t recommend that route…

 

[Grumpy Mike]

Just be careful how much the rear end is lifted.
Steve lift my rear end, the van was less planted and sloped forward which meant sleeping up in the roof, I was forever feeling upside down.
I had to remove the spacers in the end.

I wouldn’t recommend that route…

Which route???? Ive gone with the T32 OEM springs. That seems very safe to me? Would you not agree?

 

[B J G]

BJG, thanks for that. Are these defy for a Cali? Im obviously not mechanically minded.

Yes Cali is a T30 - 3,000kgs and T32 is 3,200kgs load capability..
Lots of previous threads about Cali having T32 rear springs to carry Camper conversion weight.
I'd assume that these come of Transporters being changed to air suspension possibly ambulances.

 

[soulstyledevon]

Which route???? Ive gone with the T32 OEM springs. That seems very safe to me? Would you not agree?

Steve seems to think the Cali sags at the rear.
He’s 100% wrong.
The way you work out if the van is level, is by placing a spirit level on the kitchen unit. If that’s level, the vans level.

Don’t listen to his nonsense…

 

[tedgina]

Steve seems to think the Cali sags at the rear.
He’s 100% wrong.
The way you work out if the van is level, is by placing a spirit level on the kitchen unit. If that’s level, the vans level.

Don’t listen to his nonsense…

Not all vans are the same .It seems you have a crusade to do this company harm ,many happy T6 and California owners,

 

[rod_vw]

@Grumpy Mike genuine VW springs are identified by coloured markings on the coils so if you can see the marks on the broken one you can check what folks are offering you.
In the VW parts lists you can identify which you should have on your vehicle from the PR numbers on the build sticker on your vehicle (and in the front of the service book) that match the correct version of spring.
See https://www.ilcats.ru/vw/?function=...62&year=2017&group=5&subgroup=511&part=511000 (use Google translate to translate to English if necessary).

 

[soulstyledevon]

Not all vans are the same .It seems you have a crusade to do this company harm ,many happy T6 and California owners,

Absolutely not.
People need to know the facts.
I’ve been around the converted van scene for donkeys. So much mis-information out there.

Has Steve been signed up by Wolfsburg yet…?
Nah, didn’t think so…

 

[tedgina]

Absolutely not.
People need to know the facts.
I’ve been around the converted van scene for donkeys. So much mis-information out there.

Has Steve been signed up by Wolfsburg yet…?
Nah, didn’t think so…

T6 Legend

• 16 Feb 2022
• Add bookmark
• #191

So what does CRS suggest for a California to improve it? Or is that a massive discussion?

A little bit of a story yes , but
Depends on the year your California was made I’ll explain
T5 and T6 Californias always had the back end lower than the front. This was because the rear spring wasn’t spec d correctly. The rear anti roll bar was also incorrect. It would appear that they simply built the California on a T30 chassis and used all the normal components of a T30. ,.. the weight of the conversion ( albeit Factory done) was on the back axle hence the 25 to 30 mm sag at the rear . Thoroughbred Cali owners often argue with me that it was done to level the sink and hob when parked up. ???? Sorry lads. There is no way the sink and hob is important when the saggy back end causes under steer. . Sadly the day you realize that is probably one day too late .
It’s an easy fix. And a lot of solutions.
the cheapest being fitting a set of T32 springs and hope it levels it enough , Crude solution because the T32 spring is harder .
fitting a correctly spec d spring kit that can lower the vehicle to a level 40 mm.
Drop the front 30 mm to level the vehicle without changing the rear springs .
All these options we would recommend with a proper set of Shock absorbers to improve Comfort, Handling
, body roll and nose dive pitch ,
At CRS we have developed a range of springs that can set up heavy vehicles like this at the desired 40 mm. The need for this became apparent when we saw how many inferior coil over kits and spring kits were being fitted and they simply Struggled to hold the weight at the designed height and the ride was shocking. ( excuse the pun ) .
The reason I said at the beginning , it depends on the age of your California is because VW have recently re done the rear suspension on T6.1. Californias. The springs are holding the van more level and the T32 rear anti roll bar is now used. , sadly the shocks are still. rubbish And still need changing . If you want it lower the springs would also need to be changed . But with good uprated shocks and the thicker T32. Arb the results are very good (. The T6.1 anti roll bar kit from H and R. is now approaching 600 pounds. ).

 

[soulstyledevon]

^^^^^^^^^^
This is the type of mis-information I’m talking about.

Thank you.

 

[Perfectos]

Not all vans are the same .It seems you have a crusade to do this company harm ,many happy T6 and California owners,

If all Calis weren’t the same VW would be doing something wrong ?

the geometry is by design, VW set the Van level With factory set up Based on the spring rating for each model. (Colour coded coils)

the OP is merely stating the there is a long running misnomer that VW transporters in general have rear end sag, it is a myth exploited by some to sell product And carry out aftermarket fitment of products that potenitally leave the van in a state where it is not level. (Spirit level)
some are happy with this some are not, but a balanced opinion is critical to allow others to make an informed choice,

the fact the CRS are regularly proposed on this forum, means that they must have many happy customer, but that doesn’t mean those customers vans are level (spiri level) it means they are happy how it looks And drives.

This very subject had been discussed to death on this and the T6 forum:
Body panels cause an illusion that the rear end sags, the only way to check if the vehicle is level is with a spirit level, changing suspension to the extent where it changes the stance / bias of the suspension to create a visual effect Would not be recommended by VW, but many seem happy with their choice, it doesn’t make it right it just makes it suit there needs.

im all for being able to make informed decision, based on everyone’s experience, good, bad, indifferent.

I do wonder how many people who have suspension geometry changes actually disclose the suspension geomerty changes (outside those proposed by VW via either standard or lowered set up ) to their insurers

 

[WelshGas]

Not all vans are the same .It seems you have a crusade to do this company harm ,many happy T6 and California owners,

No, it’s just facts. Measuring wheel centre to wheel arch is just cosmetic adjustment. The rear wheel arch is cut lower than the front, by design.
Measure wheel centre to horizontal body line shows that front and rear measurements are the same. VW Transporter technical drawings confirm this.
Believe what you want, but adjusting the wheel arch height front to rear to be equal means the vehicle is nose down.

See VW Technical Data sheet below.

 

[tedgina]

If all Calis weren’t the same VW would be doing something wrong ?

the geometry is by design, VW set the Van level With factory set up Based on the spring rating for each model. (Colour coded coils)

the OP is merely stating the there is a long running misnomer that VW transporters in general have rear end sag, it is a myth exploited by some to sell product And carry out aftermarket fitment of products that potenitally leave the van in a state where it is not level. (Spirit level)
some are happy with this some are not, but a balanced opinion is critical to allow others to make an informed choice,

the fact the CRS are regularly proposed on this forum, means that they must have many happy customer, but that doesn’t mean those customers vans are level (spiri level) it means they are happy how it looks And drives.

This very subject had been discussed to death on this and the T6 forum:
Body panels cause an illusion that the rear end sags, the only way to check if the vehicle is level is with a spirit level, changing suspension to the extent where it changes the stance / bias of the suspension to create a visual effect Would not be recommended by VW, but many seem happy with their choice, it doesn’t make it right it just makes it suit there needs.

im all for being able to make informed decision, based on everyone’s experience, good, bad, indifferent.

I do wonder how many people who have suspension geometry changes actually disclose the suspension geomerty changes (outside those proposed by VW via either standard or lowered set up ) to their insurers

ours is level with a sprit level

 

[tedgina]

No, it’s just facts. Measuring wheel centre to wheel arch is just cosmetic adjustment. The rear wheel arch is cut lower than the front, by design.
Measure wheel centre to horizontal body line shows that front and rear measurements are the same. VW Transporter technical drawings confirm this.
Believe what you want, but adjusting the wheel arch height front to rear to be equal means the vehicle is nose down.

See VW Technical Data sheet below.

Well the data sheet is for a transporter not a California that's what I see .

 

[WelshGas]

Well the data sheet is for a transporter not a California that's what I see .

Same body shell.

Just go outside and measure from floor or wheel centre to the horizontal body line, front or rear.
If your own eyes and measurements won’t convince you nothing will.

 

[tedgina]

Same body shell.

Just go outside and measure from floor or wheel centre to the horizontal body line, front or rear.
If your own eyes and measurements won’t convince you nothing will.

surely its the weight on each van and where the weight is

Same body shell.

Just go outside and measure from floor or wheel centre to the horizontal body line, front or rear.
If your own eyes and measurements won’t convince you nothing will.

But different weights the drawings show a loaded van ,all the unloaded transporters look like they are sitting higher when parked next to a California which carries more weight look at the payloads , California has a smaller payload so it tells they are heavy therefore will be lower at the rear is this not correct?