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GrannyJen

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Just the minor problem of breaking the law. Although as we've seen, may not result in a prosecution.

Only breaking the law if the engine is running. A lot of ambiguity, and a lot of defences now relying on the "engine was not running" defence. I'm not sure if automatic stop/start kicking in would provide a defence of "engine not running".
 
bob_summers

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According to the RAC:
The law is clear on when you can use a hand-held device behind the wheel.

It is only legal if you are safely parked – and this does not include waiting in traffic or stationary at the traffic lights.

I don’t really see it as dangerous driving, ok there’s a theoretical chance a toddler could walk in front of your car while you’re diverted. For me it’s the thin end of the wedge of failure to assume responsibility for your vehicle.
 
Jodalo

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Only breaking the law if the engine is running. A lot of ambiguity, and a lot of defences now relying on the "engine was not running" defence. I'm not sure if automatic stop/start kicking in would provide a defence of "engine not running.
Unless the law has changed in these circumstances the driver is still driving, regardless of whether the engine is running or not. If I remember correctly you only cease driving when you reach your journey’s end and have exited the vehicle. Or have stopped the vehicle for another reason and exited the vehicle. There are numerous stated cases on this issue.
 
GrannyJen

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Unless the law has changed in these circumstances the driver is still driving, regardless of whether the engine is running or not. If I remember correctly you only cease driving when you reach your journey’s end and have exited the vehicle. Or have stopped the vehicle for another reason and exited the vehicle. There are numerous stated cases on this issue.

There have ben a lot of defences recently of "engine stopped" and Pattersons now cite it as one of their main "get out of jail" cards providing no obstruction has been caused. If it were the case that you had to be at journey's end then goodness knows how many times I have broken the law by pulling over to the side or lay-bye and checked to see who has been calling me.
 
Jodalo

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There have ben a lot of defences recently of "engine stopped" and Pattersons now cite it as one of their main "get out of jail" cards providing no obstruction has been caused. If it were the case that you had to be at journey's end then goodness knows how many times I have broken the law by pulling over to the side or lay-bye and checked to see who has been calling me.
Yes I know it sounds ridiculous but it definitely was the case, particularly drink driving cases. I’m unsure on the mobile phone offences (after my time). As they say, ‘the law is an ass’. I think as bob summers states above, if you are parked safely there is no offence.
 
andyinluton

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Yes I know it sounds ridiculous but it definitely was the case, particularly drink driving cases. I’m unsure on the mobile phone offences (after my time). As they say, ‘the law is an ass’. I think as bob summers states above, if you are parked safely there is no offence.

There is stationary and stationary, looking at a phone after being stopped for 5 seconds outside a school at start time isn't safe, on the other hand when you've sat without moving on the motorway for half an hour due to an accident it should be ok. In the eyes of the law they are the same though.
 
GrannyJen

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Yes I know it sounds ridiculous but it definitely was the case, particularly drink driving cases. I’m unsure on the mobile phone offences (after my time). As they say, ‘the law is an ass’. I think as bob summers states above, if you are parked safely there is no offence.

I find it quite sad that motoring offences are the poor relation in the law, so many loopholes that smart-ass lawyers can drive the proverbial through, excuse the pun.

I'm in a very unforgiving mode at present. A Male relative recently got caught well over the limit and had the frigging temerity to ask me, of all people, to lend him some dosh for paying fines and catching busses. I reminded him of my friend Graham and his daughter Claire who had a wife and mother taken from them by someone "only just over the limit".

I'm no angel, my wings are well fallen, but some things are unforgivable.
 
Jodalo

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There is stationary and stationary, looking at a phone after being stopped for 5 seconds outside a school at start time isn't safe, on the other hand when you've sat without moving on the motorway for half an hour due to an accident it should be ok. In the eyes of the law they are the same though.
Yes, as I said I’m unsure on the mobile phone legislation (post retirement). But in both of those examples you have given, the driver would still be deemed to be driving the vehicle. For instance if you were above the drink drive limit or disqualified from driving you would be guilty of those offences as you would be deemed to be ‘still driving’. In relation to the mobile phone legislation, I don’t know whether pulling over to a safe place (even though you are still ‘driving’). is sufficient to be able to use the phone legally. I’m sure there are many stated cases on this specific point.
 
Jodalo

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I find it quite sad that motoring offences are the poor relation in the law, so many loopholes that smart-ass lawyers can drive the proverbial through, excuse the pun.

I'm in a very unforgiving mode at present. A Male relative recently got caught well over the limit and had the frigging temerity to ask me, of all people, to lend him some dosh for paying fines and catching busses. I reminded him of my friend Graham and his daughter Claire who had a wife and mother taken from them by someone "only just over the limit".

I'm no angel, my wings are well fallen, but some things are unforgivable.
I quite agree, I know I’ve mentioned it before on here but the police have been decimated over recent times and the once prolific ‘traffic units’ were all over the place. Nowadays, certainly on minor roads/A roads you never see them.
 
GrannyJen

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I quite agree, I know I’ve mentioned it before on here but the police have been decimated over recent times and the once prolific ‘traffic units’ were all over the place. Nowadays, certainly on minor roads/A roads you never see them.

I passed my driving test 55 years ago. It horrifies me sometimes when I consider all the changes, to me, to the roads, to the vehicles I drive, to the laws that I drive under, I have no requirement to be tested.

Fortunately my son is qualified to test me and he does every time I drive him anywhere :shocked
 
Amarillo

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I quite agree, I know I’ve mentioned it before on here but the police have been decimated over recent times and the once prolific ‘traffic units’ were all over the place. Nowadays, certainly on minor roads/A roads you never see them.

It would make a nonsense of the law if someone had pulled into a lay-by to make a phone call and was successfully prosecuted for driving while using the phone.

Quite another matter pulling into a lay-by to sleep off the effects of drunkenness and when caught claiming you weren’t driving.
 
Jodalo

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It would make a nonsense of the law if someone had pulled into a lay-by to make a phone call and was successfully prosecuted for driving while using the phone.

Quite another matter pulling into a lay-by to sleep off the effects of drunkenness and when caught claiming you weren’t driving.
It wouldn’t be the first time the law has been made out to be a nonsense. Nothing would surprise me nowadays.
 
pluc99

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There is stationary and stationary, looking at a phone after being stopped for 5 seconds outside a school at start time isn't safe, on the other hand when you've sat without moving on the motorway for half an hour due to an accident it should be ok. In the eyes of the law they are the same though.
As soon as you start writing rules down you get bogged down in the impossible task of handling the what-ifs and exceptions. The eyes of the law pass through the lenses of judges who have the task of interpreting the rules and how they apply to a particular circumstance. I think it's a pretty good system but not always perfect and not always to our liking (or Bikey Mikey's).
 
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It horrifies me sometimes when I consider all the changes, to me, to the roads, to the vehicles I drive, to the laws that I drive under, I have no requirement to be tested.
But you can always rely on your "grandmother" rights in respect of some categories, e.g. towing.
 

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