Cyclists: Scourge of the streets?

[GrannyJen]

Sort of like driving at 21 mph in a 20mph zone?

Perhaps riding at 20mph in a 3mph zone might be more appropriate.

I hate the title of this thread and I've not watched the programme which appears to be based on Cyclists v car drivers, which by both instinct and passion my bias will always be towards the cyclist. My beef is with the urban terrorist on two wheels, who wears dark clothes and rides with no lights at night and expects everyone to see them, who rides on crowded pavements or footpaths and expects awareness to be the responsibility of those travelling 5 times slower, the responsibility to signal presence by some form of audible warning not passing through their grey matter. The person who will happily use green spaces where children are playing freely and thinks it is "their right" to ride their cycles as fast as possible.

Yes, my thoughts are tarnished with the latter by being witness to an horrendous accident 11 years ago: two mountain bikers, on the quantocks in Somerset, descending a steep track very fast failed to take account of a footpath crossing, had no means to signal a warning and clattered into a family of 5 walking along that path. I was one of the first to render first aid and sadly the 13 year old child that took most of the impact is wheelchair-bound for life and still unable to speak.

I love my bicycle, have cycled all my life, but despairing of the total lack of respect being flouted by what is no doubt a small, but highly visible, minority. I regularly run in Belgium, very quaint, roads closed to all but cyclists, and plodding along on a gruelling half marathon around Ypres the tinkling of bells is great. 10,000 runners and 100 cyclists commuting to wherever and everyone respects everyone else, and every cycle seems miraculously to have a bell.

 

[Keith Smith]

It's about time bikes were registered and had a number plate so that was easier to report dangerous behaviour. It's a minority who think they can get away with anything who spoil it for everyone else.

 

[Amarillo]

It's about time bikes were registered and had a number plate so that was easier to report dangerous behaviour. It's a minority who think they can get away with anything who spoil it for everyone else.

The Swiss introduced a Velo Vignette scheme. They abandoned it in 2015. For the reasons why, Google is your friend. The Japanese have a very effective bike registration scheme: stolen bikes which have been recovered by the police are returned to their owners rather than auctioned off to the highest bidder.

 

[Keith Smith]

The Swiss introduced a Velo Vignette scheme. They abandoned it in 2015. For the reasons why, Google is your friend. The Japanese have a very effective bike registration scheme: stolen bikes which have been recovered by the police are returned to their owners rather than auctioned off to the highest bidder.

Anonymity breeds bad behaviour and it looks like it's mostly the cost of running the schemes which has encouraged abandonment. How about a yellow vest scheme where the rider is registered rather than the bike? If they made it a requirement to wear a reflective waistcoat with the reg no on the back at least I'd have a better chance of avoiding the cyclists who ride round our local unlit roads dressed entirely in black and with no lights on.

 

[RodCouncil]

You do understand that a cyclist is just a person riding a bike? after which they go back to being just a person, or maybe they jump into a car and act like an arsehole there too?

People and poor behavior applied to any vehicle they are operating is the issue, many folk who do ride bikes routinely, do so safely and with the correct apparel.

I share your frustration, when I’m driving, cycling or running and I see people dressed in black in the middle of the Swedish winter, I actually stop and tell them how daft they are being if I’m not in the car (one has to be practical), but I don’t pigeonhole people by the mode of transport they are using because by and large that collective group abide by the rules.

The actual big issue over here is people using phones, the consequences of doing this in a car or larger vehicle just happens to be much graver.

 

[pjm-84]

GJ.. that's a tragic event. I haven't ridden around that area so I do not know the trails. Typically trails are separated and crossing points well indicated and designed to avoid this happening. If the trails are public then as a rider you should always ride with caution and be considerate around the public.

Whilst in no way belittling the accident with the family, I have ridden with people who has subsequently been killed whilst riding. It becomes somewhat sad when this becomes the norm, you sigh and move on. I suppose you come to terms with the statistics of it.

 

[aileron346]

As most things in life, the minority ruin it for the many. Look at speed bumps, now all over the flaming place whilst the majority of people don't speed. Cyclists as a whole are very sensible so lets not let the idiot cyclists ruin it for us gooduns ;-)

Agree with the sentiment but covert speed investigations on major roads near me do show the majority speeding and I understand significantly so in 20/30 zones.

 

[aileron346]

I quite agree. It's why headphones are banned at most running events. quite dangerous, even with aftershokz bone conductor headsets. Apart from anything else though no point me having earphones as the noises I make gasping for breath would drown them out

My big beef with cyclists are the lack of an audible warning. My bicycle at least has a bell,

Much discussed amoung cyclists... and I’ve found the most common conclusion is that you’re damned if you do and damned if you don’t. I do use one but can get a pantomime deliberately exaggerated response, sometimes with people moving into your path. Abuse for ringing a bell is not uncommon because, like a car horn, people in the uk interpret as ‘ get outta my way’.

The real issues are:
1)the risk of being killed or seriously injured (KSI) by a bicycle in the UK is broadly equivalent to that of being KSI’d by lightening.
2) Cycling facilities in the UK are pitiful compared to best practice in the continent.
3) Bad drivers and bad cyclists, they're all the same is kind of true but the issue as a whole is a gross false equivalence. The carnage, pollution, obesity, joint disease, climate change caused by addiction to motor vehicles makes the annoyances of a few cyclists nearly irrelevant.
4) As Chris Boardman recently said, the C5 programme was just cheap, dressed up prejudice.

 

[GrannyJen]

Much discussed amoung cyclists... and I’ve found the most common conclusion is that you’re damned if you do and damned if you don’t. I do use one but can get a pantomime deliberately exaggerated response, sometimes with people moving into your path. Abuse for ringing a bell is not uncommon because, like a car horn, people in the uk interpret as ‘ get outta my way’.

The real issues are:
1)the risk of being killed or seriously injured (KSI) by a bicycle in the UK is broadly equivalent to that of being KSI’d by lightening.
2) Cycling facilities in the UK are pitiful compared to best practice in the continent.
3) Bad drivers and bad cyclists, they're all the same is kind of true but the issue as a whole is a gross false equivalence. The carnage, pollution, obesity, joint disease, climate change caused by addiction to motor vehicles makes the annoyances of a few cyclists nearly irrelevant.
4) As Chris Boardman recently said, the C5 programme was just cheap, dressed up prejudice.

Yes, I have a bell on my bicycle and also had the two fingers when I've rung it, such is life. However the bd manners of others is their problem, I myself, in my own little world, consider it quite bad manners to startle someone by swerving around them at speed.

As I said earlier, I am camping at Ferry Meadows at present where almost everyone on two wheels seems to have a bell on the bike and a cheery ding when coming behind foot traffic seems to be the accepted norm, as it is of course in Holland and Belgium,

My last "serious" bicycle was a Marin rocky ridge mountain bike, which gives my age away, I'm now quite happy pottering about on my Pashley Princess whilst being a healthy lifestyle advocate at my local health centre trying to get people out on two wheels or two feet so the last thing I ever want to see is negative criticism but sadly as with everything I life there are those who will abuse and tarnish any activity.

Oh, and .... please don't equate anything with the risk of being struck by lightning! I am a twice-over member of the lucky strike club

 

[GrannyJen]

GJ.. that's a tragic event. I haven't ridden around that area so I do not know the trails. Typically trails are separated and crossing points well indicated and designed to avoid this happening. If the trails are public then as a rider you should always ride with caution and be considerate around the public.

Whilst in no way belittling the accident with the family, I have ridden with people who has subsequently been killed whilst riding. It becomes somewhat sad when this becomes the norm, you sigh and move on. I suppose you come to terms with the statistics of it.

Sadly the riders involved were not part of the community that promotes safe responsible riding, more part of the community that says "I have a bike, it's my right to ride it anywhere"....nothing any community can do about those.

As most people will probably know my passion was mountaineering, I taught for a while at an outdoor pursuits centre, even though climbing in some of the most dangerous regions in the world always promoted safe and responsible practice but also as a Mountain Rescue team member I came across many who put responsibility and safety second.

 

[Mikado]

Human nature is a strange beast.
When riding my bike, cars, vans, horses, walkers, runners etc are a nuisance.
When driving my car, cyclists, horses, walkers etc etc are a nuisance.
When walking - I imagine you have the picture by now.
(I tried riding a horse once but couldn’t find the brake or steering wheel, so that once was enough!!)

 

[Private_Kelly]

I am a cyclist. I do not possess a car but have my Cali. I believe that bikes are not the problem. It is the attitude of the person riding it. I believe that in today’s society people are becoming ever more selfish, impatient, disrespectful and rude. Throw in a lack of decency and common sense for good measure. So..to summarise, it is not the cyclist who is at fault, it is a by product of modern day society affecting how human beings behave.

 

[Paul Karas]

As a cyclist - for fun and commuting - and campervan driver. I used to commute on the Pollockshaws road in Glasgow where the traffic (especially Strathclyde busses) was even worse than the weather. And the only safe time to cross most junctions was when the lights were red. Why - because at other times the wacky races brigade would burn past you and cut you up when you got to the other side of the junction - the busses would then hammer their brakes on at the inevitable bus stop whilst cars would impatiently squeeze past them leaving me, a poor cyclist, ‘smoking’ the bus’s belching diesel farts before the whole dreaded cycle repeated. Luckily I’d learnt to ride a bike in London as a kid so I had the survival instincts.

The problem is not just impatient and bad drivers (and a few cyclists) but ridiculously poorly designed roads/paths etc that are guaranteed to pit one against the other. I am pleased to report that on average most other road users are actually quite good around cyclists these days - and take almost too much care causing long tailbacks... But the local councils don’t help with cycle lanes that seems to be designed by someone who did a cycling proficiency test in a school playground for a kiddie’s bike with stabilisers - not someone who actually wants to get from A2B in a reasonable time using leg power.

Now the real problem is the electrical motorbikes on cycle paths and pavements - they weigh a lot and can cause a lot of damage if they hit anyone. Normal bikes are self limiting - as the heavier they and their riders are the slower they go - most electrical bikes and their riders weigh a lot more than the average MAMIL!

 

[Denzilgts]

I quite agree. It's why headphones are banned at most running events. quite dangerous, even with aftershokz bone conductor headsets. Apart from anything else though no point me having earphones as the noises I make gasping for breath would drown them out

My big beef with cyclists are the lack of an audible warning. My bicycle at least has a bell,

Headphones are generally banned in rttc, British cycling events and all sportives.

 

[ArunAlec]

As you say @Paul Karas ...."local councils don’t help with cycle lanes that seems to be designed by someone who did a cycling proficiency test in a school playground for a kiddie’s bike with stabilisers - not someone who actually wants to get from A2B in a reasonable time using leg power."
A local example is the "cycle lane" that goes around Chichester Fire Station roundabout.

 

[Johnboy]

Bells are becoming useless nowadays. Most pedestrians seem to be "plugged in" to some device or other and despite lots of bell tinging you still have to pass them on the grass verge.....

On the subject of cycle paths....... Question. Why on earth do they put cycle paths at the front of the junction in front of traffic lights? It is the last place I would want to be on my bike when the lights change. Answer. It's so the councils can add the width of the road to the length of cycle paths they have created in order to satisfy funding criteria. Doesn't matter if it's no good for the cyclist.

On the subject of cyclists safety..... As a cyclist you have to have your wits about you, car drivers regularly pass too close and too fast (how many are actually speeding?) and they are oblivious to the vast array of pot holes and drain covers that a cyclist has to negotiate when forced to ride next to the kerb. Then chuck into the mix wind and rain whilst the drivers in their heated leather seats are tuning the radio to their favourite music channel …. you get the picture.
As a cyclist with 40 years on the road, the only times I have had an "incident" involved either cars running into the back of me or pedestrians running out in front of me.

Still cycling tho'

 

[Amarillo]

A local example is the "cycle lane" that goes around Chichester Fire Station roundabout.

I had to look that up:

Google Maps

Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.

goo.gl

I see exactly what you mean. The hapless cyclist needs to contort their head by 180 degrees to see if it is safe to proceed.

A simple Dutch design I saw on holiday when cycling with Meg to the vet for pre-return to UK worming treatment.

Google Maps

Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.

goo.gl

No one has priority, cyclist and motorist need to gain eye contact - acknowledging each other as a human - before proceeding or giving way.

 

[Nigel Whitwood]

Insurance should be compulsory for cyclists as it is for most other road users and when available, use of cycle paths/tracks should be mandatory IMO.

 

[Amarillo]

Insurance should be compulsory for cyclists as it is for most other road users and when available, use of cycle paths/tracks should be mandatory IMO.

Compulsory insurance was also part of the recently abandoned Swiss cycle vignette.

The Chichester Fire Station cycle lane clearly demonstrates why use of cycle lanes should NOT be compulsory. It would be far safer for cyclists and motorists for cyclists to use the main carriageway.

 

[Denzilgts]

You do understand that a cyclist is just a person riding a bike? after which they go back to being just a person, or maybe they jump into a car and act like an arsehole there too?

People and poor behavior applied to any vehicle they are operating is the issue, many folk who do ride bikes routinely, do so safely and with the correct apparel.

I share your frustration, when I’m driving, cycling or running and I see people dressed in black in the middle of the Swedish winter, I actually stop and tell them how daft they are being if I’m not in the car (one has to be practical), but I don’t pigeonhole people by the mode of transport they are using because by and large that collective group abide by the rules.

The actual big issue over here is people using phones, the consequences of doing this in a car or larger vehicle just happens to be much graver.

Yes people forget they are driving a killing machine

 

[Denzilgts]

As in all walks of life you can get idiots, idiot drivers, idiot cyclists etc.

Remember the law says don’t drink and drive , but people do
Don’t take drugs and drive, but people do
Don’t speed but people do

Get my drift

I am a lifelong cyclist (member of British cycling, ride leader, route designer) I drive a car, a Cali, and a van for a living. I try to be courteous to ALL road users , yes I make mistakes just like all of us.

We as the Cali club enjoy the outdoor life, we should make a stance to look after cyclists giving them plenty of room when overtaking etc. So we can all live another day

Remember we all drive killing machines, have a little respect for others, that cyclist you overtake next could be me..

 

[Toothlessjon]

Sorry if you don’t pay road tax, have insurance or have taken any training and an exam you shouldn’t be on the road.

 

[motacyclist]

Insurance should be compulsory for cyclists

If anyone is considering this, it’s worth thinking about joining British Cycling, you get free 3rd party insurance, as well as benefits such as 10% at Halfords and other outlets.

 

[Amarillo]

If anyone is considering this, it’s worth thinking about joining British Cycling, you get free 3rd party insurance, as well as benefits such as 10% at Halfords and other outlets.

Joining the London Cycling Campaign provides similar benefits.

 

[d1rtym0nk3y]

Sorry if you don’t pay road tax, have insurance or have taken any training and an exam you shouldn’t be on the road.

Pure ignorance.

"Road tax" doesnt exist, what you pay for on your cali or car is an emissions (pollution) tax. As bikes make no emissions they are not taxed. Roads are funded through general taxation, through which everyone contributes.

How should my kids cycle to school? They're technically not aloud on the pavement and theres no cycle path. So they have to use the road.

To anyone open to some interesting reading on the subject I'd recommend

Roads Were Not Built For Cars

Cyclists were 1st to push for good roads & were pioneers of motoring

roadswerenotbuiltforcars.com