Dead Leisure Batteries?

[willbus]

A question for all you experts out there! My 2010 Cali SE is not holding leisure battery charge like it used to. The other day after 2 nights (with driving inbetween) the heater / fridge switched off. Voltage at the time was low (even though the % was high - i have been advised on here somewhere to disregard this however). Got it home. 24 hours on charge (with prongs etc on control panel) and the voltage is back up to 13V. 10 mins of running the heater however and the voltage drops to 12.2V / 30%. The heater works fine during this and there is no flickering etc so I would imagine the earth shunt shouldnt be the issue (facelift cali too). When the heater is turned off it goes back to 12.3/12.4 V - again at 30%

Would i be right in thinking the batteries are knackered? The van is 5 years old and I imagine the previous owner may not have looked after them particularly well. On checking the rear battery appears to be some sort of strange 3rd party (lion batteries) battery also. The other options I suppose are to get them load tested or take it to a dealer however from experience they often arent especially helpful. Also I have seen another member here putting some 100Ah alpha batteries in place which I imagine would given a welcome capacity boost

Thanks in advance.

 

[Hotel California]

Change the batteries , 5 years , early but on a 2nd hand vehicle you don't know how well they are treatend ....one thing is for sure you can't do without good lesure batts.
No use of going on a trip knowing your heather or fridge will turn of afther short periode of time....might as wel go camping in a tent!
Worth checking the starterbattery also.

And most important , do charge you new batts frequently thru 220v hook-up, say at least once a month for minimum 10 hour in a row.....

 

[GrannyJen]

I agree with everything Wim says above.

They should hold charge better than that. From a full charge with heater running, fridge on, lights on early (mid winter) I would not expect to see voltage drop below 12v in about 5 days.

 

[GrannyJen]

I agree with everything Wim says above.

They should hold charge better than that. From a full charge with heater running, fridge on, lights on early (mid winter) I would not expect to see voltage drop below 12v in about 5 days.

 

[willbus]

Thanks guys. Will prob sort out a pair of new leisure batteries then - Those alpha batteries at 100ah seem attractive! Was thinking about the starter battery too - Will check this.

 

[WelshGas]

What leisure batteries do you actually have? They should both be the same type? Sounds as if the previous owner had problems, probably not looking after them properly, and just put a cheap battery in for the sale.
You don't really need more powerful batteries as the normal 75amp leisure batteries should give you 3-5 days use of fridge, heater and lights before needing a charge. Larger capacity batteries may not fit properly, so make sure before parting with any money.
I know the normal rear leisure battery is a very tight fit.

 

[GrannyJen]

As I am being unusually agreeable tonight I will also agree with the gassy one above. Two regular batteries should give you plenty of power unless you intend to take root for days on end, and who stands still when they have a Cali to go off exploring in?

I have quite a bit of experience of living off partly-charged leisure batteries with no hook-up, for all the wrong reasons, and with a bit of care the two standard VW ones can last a long time, even if it just means running the engine for a while.

Anyway, enough of all this being agreeable. I am parked in a field in North Norfolk having made my almost annual pilgrimage to the birth place of my greatest hero and it's raining

 

[willbus]

Hi there. The front looks like the original varta OEM battery. The rear one definately is not OEM. It has 'Lion Battery' written on it. No other info re type or Ah etc. rather strange. Will either try the alpha battery which is 10mm smaller than OEM or try and hunt down some varta ones (the alpha ones are also a lot cheaper at 170 a pair and are AGM also)

 

[WelshGas]

Not raining here!

GrannyJen is "The Leisure Battery Queen ".

 

[willbus]

Thats awesome. Thanks guys. Just relieved that you both think it sounds battery related and not some other underlying gremlin!!

 

[briwy]

You couild try discoonecting the mongrel Lion battery and see if the original charges up OK before splashing out for two new ones. If the Lion is knackered it could well be draing charge from the OEM battery as they are wired in parallel. Obviously make sure that you insulate the the positive terminal on the Lion battery if you take it off.

 

[AlanC]

Snip
On checking the rear battery appears to be some sort of strange 3rd party (lion batteries) battery also. The other options I suppose are to get them load tested or take it to a dealer however from experience they often arent especially helpful. Also I have seen another member here putting some 100Ah alpha batteries in place which I imagine would given a welcome capacity boost

Thanks in advance.

If you have a Lion battery fitted, then it has never had a good charge.

The chemistry or Lead Acid, Lithium Ion (LiOn) Nickel Cadmium (NiCad), Nickel Metalhydride (MiMH) , all have very specific charge requirements. LiOn needs a constant current charge and Lead Acid require constant voltage.

As the charger fitted as standard to your Cali is for Lead Acid batteries and so constant voltage, the LiOn battery is being destroyed by being charged in your van.

It is possible that the charger has also been changed, and if so all should be OK. Both batteries are charged off the same charger, so the under seat battery should be the same as the under cupboard one.

Do check that the charger is the right one for both the batteries fitted, and both are the same type and make..

Alan

 

[willbus]

Hi there. thanks for the help. The rear leisure battery is a Lion - as in the manufacturer rather than a lithium Ion battery! Sorry for the confusion. All good suggestions so far. Think its a double battery change job next week then!

 

[johnv]

can you report back with make/cost etc ? and how easy it was to replace the one under the seat!
thanks

 

[AlanC]

Hi there. thanks for the help. The rear leisure battery is a Lion - as in the manufacturer rather than a lithium Ion battery! Sorry for the confusion. All good suggestions so far. Think its a double battery change job next week then!

Ahh that is good to know. No problems with charging then. I though it was unusual.

Alan

 

[snowy55]

To make removal of the rear battery easier use Welshgasses patented "slide it up a couple of paint scrapers" method. Worked well for me

 

[willbus]

batteries ordered! Went for a pair of the alpha batteries at 170 delivered - approx 10mm shorter than the OEM battery. Gonna get a mechanic mate to help me fit them - fingers crossed! Will report back next week with progress!

 

[johnv]

do you have a link to the batteries that you ordered? thanks

 

[willbus]

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Deal-Pair...ep-Cycle-/111602658003?_trksid=p2054897.l4275

 

[Andy]

I believe these should fit

http://www.alpha-batteries.co.uk/leisure-batteries/100-ah-ultra-plus-agm-leisure-battery/

 

[Lost Boy]

I might need to do mine, so any chance you can let me know how you get on with fitting these, rear looks easy enough but I haven't even worked out how to get into the one under the passenger seat yet...

Thanks

 

[bathurg]

Bit late in offering my two pence worth here, but check the terminal mounted fuse on the rear battery. I had a similar problem on my 2009 Cali and found that the fuse was blown. Replaced the 50A with a 75A as suggested on another site and now getting much better service now on the same batteries. Essentially was only running on the front battery.

As a general rule though you should always use the same make and age of battery if running in parallel like in the Cali, otherwise they don't share the load or charge properly - which makes for unhappy campers...

 

[Eye2iart]

I believe these should fit

http://www.alpha-batteries.co.uk/leisure-batteries/100-ah-ultra-plus-agm-leisure-battery/

+1 for this link / and the post above it recommending the eBay offer. I used the the eBay one as it was cheaper if ordering two batteries.

My fridge had failed as a result of dud battery (or two) (more details to follow when I get round to it - I'm very grateful to advice gleaned from this forum and think the info should be shared again), and I fitted two of these earlier his year to my 2007 vehicle (and then replaced the fridge controller - successfully it seems)

The Xplorer batteries appear to be absolutely identical to the original Varta ones that I took out, even down to the spare vents and molding marks and I strongly suspect they came from the same factory. Being exactly the same size as the originals there were no problems getting them back in, once I gained access to the relevant spaces (getting under the front seat needed a few tips - happy to share).. No problems so far after fitting.

 

[Eye2iart]

I might need to do mine, so any chance you can let me know how you get on with fitting these, rear looks easy enough but I haven't even worked out how to get into the one under the passenger seat yet...

Thanks

You need to have the front seat pushed forwards and also loosened enough to tip forwards. I gather that you can run into trouble of having to re-set some things if you try and disconnect the various electrics such as the seatbelt warning kit, but it is possible to do this replacement (just) without disconnecting anything or removing the seat fully.

VW have a habit of fixing things down with a mix of various types of bolts. My front seats have one pair of splined bolts, and another of hex bolts on each chair holding them to the base. I bought this set http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BGS-1-2-t...et-Pro-5006-/281437388152?hash=item4186f9bd78 (IIRC it's the M10 that you need) which has already come in useful for repositioning a door on another VW vehicle so has been great value). I removed the rear bolts, and loosened the front pair as much as I could. A couple of bits of 2"x2" wood were then used to keep the seat tilted forward.

There's just enough space to pull off the thick rubber casing covering the battery; It needs a bit of effort - I found it easier to ease it off front part first.

Being a bit paranoid about shorting things out whilst working in a confined space (the only thing I switched off was the ignition, - though not hooked up of course), I taped up the 10mm spanner to insulate it. ...And wore gloves and eye protection...and had a fire extinguisher handy...Overkill perhaps, but thankfully not required.

 

[willbus]

This seems to have been a good thread so far! Thanks for everyones input. The battery change went well as others have found. Sizing is spot on. Initial voltage was slightly low at 12.7 but after a good 15hour charge was back to 12.8/9. 15 mins of heater (not a great test but was late for work!) and it dropped to 12.5v (which i imagine is normal when a load is applied). A few mins after this was switched off it was back at 12.8v (100%) again. Seems ok so far. Forgot to check the fuse tho (doh!) - will certainly do this if performance isnt up there in the next few weeks. I imagine different manufactures battery ratings might differ but there has to be some advantage of large capacity batteries in the cali - we shall see!!