Dim Battery Warning Light showing

[stew]

Hi,

The 'Battery' warning light on my T5.2 is lit up but only very dimly. I noticed it since it has gotten cold (-4C overnight). With the ignition on before starting, the light is very bright, so the bulb is working fine.

I fully charged the battery overnight and it still shows.

With a multimeter, the voltage across the battery when the engine is running shows 14.55v and at rest, the battery has shown anywhere from 12.38v to 12.56v (all times at least 3 hours after stopping the engine). Strangely, if I keep the multimeter probes on the battery, the volts gradually increase, about 0.1v every few seconds...

From a little bit of googling, this appears to show that the alternator is at least working and the battery is not yet bad, but not in peak condition either. It is the original one and at least 7 years old.

Does anyone have a clue why the light should be on, albeit dim? Does this signify something other than when it is bright? The manual says nothing about varying levels of brightness.

Thanks!

 

[calikev]

Sounds like it could be a bad earth somewhere

 

[VW Guru]

Hi have a look st your dash when it’s dark are there any other lights dim we have had quite a few instrument clusters fail causing dim lights on the dash

 

[Ethel's dad]

Hi have a look st your dash when it’s dark are there any other lights dim we have had quite a few instrument clusters fail causing dim lights on the dash

Had this on my Skoda Octavia, common problem apparently, new light cluster and quite pricey!

 

[sidepod]

Classic Mk4 Golf issue. Caused by increase in temperature/cluster PCB deforming.

It’s fixable if you take the van off the dashboard!!
You toob is your friend.

 

[stew]

Thanks, will have a look this evening and see if there is anything else showing.

@calikev - thanks, found something on the web that says it can help spot a problem, can this be easily diagnosed or is it a garage thing?

https://cloreautomotive.com/blog/got-good-ground/

 

[stew]

So I checked at night and also noticed that more than one light shows dim in different circumstances...

• Battery bulb is dim when...
  - Drivers seatbelt not in
  - Left indicator is on (blinks in time with it), doesn't happen with the right indicator
  - Hazard lights are on
  - Traction control is disabled
  
  
• Low Fuel bulb is dim when...
  - Drivers seatbelt not in
  
  
• Right Indicator bulb is dim when...
  - Cruise control is enabled (the green Cruise Control light is bright, as normal)
  
  
• Bulb Failure shows when...
  - Rear foglight is turned on

I made a short video here

Does this change what the problem can be?!

Cheers,
Stu

 

[VW Guru]

So I checked at night and also noticed that more than one light shows dim in different circumstances...

• Battery bulb is dim when...
  - Drivers seatbelt not in
  - Left indicator is on (blinks in time with it), doesn't happen with the right indicator
  - Hazard lights are on
  - Traction control is disabled
  
  
• Low Fuel bulb is dim when...
  - Drivers seatbelt not in
  
  
• Right Indicator bulb is dim when...
  - Cruise control is enabled (the green Cruise Control light is bright, as normal)
  
  
• Bulb Failure shows when...
  - Rear foglight is turned on

I made a short video here

Does this change what the problem can be?!

Cheers,
Stu

Hi that’s definitely a failing instrument cluster unfortunately.

 

[Loz]

I made a short video here

Does this change what the problem can be?!

Cheers,
Stu

Looks like earth fault on one of the tracks on the circuit board to me...
If this were mine and faced with a replacement cost, I would be tempted to take it apart and set to it with a soldering iron
But first I would unplug and replug all the connections and the earth point behind the instrument cluster.

 

[jts46]

Looks like earth fault on one of the tracks on the circuit board to me...
If this were mine and faced with a replacement cost, I would be tempted to take it apart and set to it with a soldering iron

how do you remove instrument cluster?

 

[Loz]

how do you remove instrument cluster?

I dont have the 2006 manual but the 2016 shows.

Removing

• – Move steering wheel to rearmost and lowest position. Use the full range of the steering column adjustment for this purpose.
• – Switch off ignition.
• – Store the ignition key outside the vehicle to prevent the ignition from being switched on unintentionally.
• – Remove dash panel insert trim
• Remove securing bolts -1-

• Pull out dash panel insert - KX2- -2- until it makes contact with steering wheel.
  
  
• – To separate electrical connector on back of dash panel insert, press locking detent -1- and swing retaining clip in direction of -arrow-.
  
  
• – Remove dash panel insert - KX2- from between steering wheel and dash panel.
  

 

[stew]

Looks like earth fault on one of the tracks on the circuit board to me...
If this were mine and faced with a replacement cost, I would be tempted to take it apart and set to it with a soldering iron
But first I would unplug and replug all the connections and the earth point behind the instrument cluster.

Thanks. Is there anything important to be aware of before unplugging connectors like losing some coding or important configuration?

 

[Loz]

Thanks. Is there anything important to be aware of before unplugging connectors like losing some coding or important configuration?

DON'T turn on the ignition...

 

[sidepod]

As stated, search on Golf Mk4 dash faults and you’ll find a method of sorting it.

 

[stew]

As stated, search on Golf Mk4 dash faults and you’ll find a method of sorting it.

Thanks, I tried a variety of searches and didn't find anything obvious either on Google or Youtube.
e.g. 'Golf mk4 dash fault', using other terms such as instrument, cluster, mkIV, dimming, errors, PCB, deformed, etc.

Do you have a link to the method you are referring to please?

 

[stew]

FYI, removed the cluster and re-plugged it in, but no change.

There was one connector on the back, took it out, put it back in. The wiring bundle from the cluster snakes back much further behind the dash so I couldn't see if anything was amiss there, without taking apart more of the dash it seems.

For those wanting to know how to remove the cluster on a T5, here are pics showing which screws to remove - https://www.vwt4forum.co.uk/showpost.php?p=1934744&postcount=7

With a long enough screwdriver, I could easily undo the two Torx screws holding the cluster without removing any other part of the lower dash (removal of the lower dash to get at the screws is documented here).

I thought the screws would fall down and get caught in the the dash either side of the steering wheel, but both fell onto the floor. Even if they got caught, there should be enough room to fish them out.

I levered the cluster out a little using a screwdriver from underneath as shown in the pics, I still couldn't get any purchase on it from within the dash, so I raised the cluster up at the bottom using a screwdriver and slipped the fat end of a cable tie under the bottom of the unit and then pulled it out with that.

 

[sidepod]

This is what I’m guessing it could be.

 

[BikerGran]

In the original post I'm not sure but it sounds as if the ignition warning light is glowing faintly when engine is running, NOT before starting. If that's the case I'm surprised that no-one suggested a possible failing alternator - this happened on my Passat.

 

[calikev]

In the original post I'm not sure but it sounds as if the ignition warning light is glowing faintly when engine is running, NOT before starting. If that's the case I'm surprised that no-one suggested a possible failing alternator - this happened on my Passat.

the original poster tested the battery with the engine running and it was showing over 14 volts indicating the alternator is working

 

[BikerGran]

Yes mine was still working - I was told that I could keep driving it as it was till the light showed brightly while driving. Unfortunately that advice wasn't entirely correct, and the light was only a little brighter although I'd done a fair bit of driving, when the alternator failed completely on the Redbridge roundabout in Southampton. Very embarrassing and not a little scary!

 

[calikev]

on the T4 there is another small wire that runs to the dash this can break and cause similar symptoms

 

[stew]

Hi @BikerGran - the ignition warning light glows faintly after starting but only when one other condition is met, (which I discovered after the initial post): either the drivers seatbelt is out, the left indicator is on, the rear fog is on or the traction control is disabled. The video in post 7 shows the strange behaviour along with other lights being dimly illuminated (right indicator, fuel low) when others come on.

It seems that this behaviour suggests mostly likely a failing instrument cluster or perhaps an issue with the wires/ground connecting to the cluster such a short because one light triggers another.

I had read about issues with a failing alternator but it only caused issues with the electrical/ignition warning light. You never know, perhaps it could be a combination of issues, but it only started after a VERY cold snap where the bus was standing 8 days freezing at the airport followed by full warmth with the standing heater as I defrosted it (the rear and sliding doors were frozen shut). Maybe this led to some expansion damage on the PCB...

 

[mark474747]

Hi,

Did you manage to sort out your issue with your alternator battery light, as displayed your in video clips.

Just to let you know my 2011, 180 SE has exactly the same symptoms as yours. I had my alternator removed and tested last summer with the results that it is running to specification; I also fitted new batteries all around and checked all earths. I could not clear the symptoms, I was learning just to put up with it, but surprising the faults disappeared for a few months, however unfortunately this weekend while away the symptoms are back!

Any ideas?

Mark

 

[stew]

Hi,

Did you manage to sort out your issue with your alternator battery light, as displayed your in video clips.

Just to let you know my 2011, 180 SE has exactly the same symptoms as yours. I had my alternator removed and tested last summer with the results that it is running to specification; I also fitted new batteries all around and checked all earths. I could not clear the symptoms, I was learning just to put up with it, but surprising the faults disappeared for a few months, however unfortunately this weekend while away the symptoms are back!

Any ideas?

Mark

Hi - Nothing sorted! Apart from removing the cluster and plugging it back in again, I didn't do anything.

Did you have exactly the same lights showing dim? e.g. the low fuel bulb also glowed a little when the seatbelt sign was on, the right indicator bulb glowed with cruise control on...

"Good to know" that you checked your alternator, battery and earths and it was nothing obvious, so it seems likely that we both have a cranky cluster. I will leave mine until the next service for someone to have a quick look at as right now it is not causing any issues.

 

[mark474747]

Well I would say nearly the same but,,, I don’t get low fuel glow, right indicator or seat belt. However I get the dim warning with cruise on and indicating left. Checking last night the dim light is now dimly flicking and my fuel light is on.

I will to do further investigation work this week, as the fault disappeared for a few months and like I said in my first post the fault has reappeared last weekend. I want to check out the camper control as I think this may be faulty, as the back light does not switch off with the roof up, which I find annoying. I keep you informed if I make any progress.