Does your T6.1 double skinned Bellows leak?

[Pollewop]

The poptops could be made outside Germany eg Poland

Yes, that may be true, but 2023 isn't a leap year in Poland either...

 

[Andy C Berks.]

View attachment 111945
For the record, here’s the tag to my leaking roof bellows.

That’s the third tag posted on here from a leaky bellows (mine included) with 2215 as the Pers. No. - still wonder if that’s significant and a common theme for leaky sets of bellows - any others out there with 2215. Could it be the employee’s no. and they are assembling them incorrectly ? Only VW can answer that but a few more leaky tags needed before we can say it’s a real trend.

 

[Andy C Berks.]

I will "tag capture" mine tomorrow and post it up as I can get to the tag without having to put the roof up.

Speaking of which, I assume everyone else has the same battle to get the sliding cover over the fabric? I know the MY22 Ocean I hired it just slid across with no effort at all but the fabric was less bulky. More notably, it's the front of the bellows that's the bit I have to fold and push around to get the sliding cover to close . . . I wonder if there's any effect on the seams from this? I also wonder if the "fix" ends up being some sort of seam sealant if it will be up to resisting that kind of repeat stress?

My sliding cover is noticeably harder to close now after a few uses than it was back a month ago when we took delivery of it. Can’t think why that should be but the last few times I have had the roof up it’s taken a lot more gymnastics with two hands to get it all shoved back in, to the point where i think it won’t be doing the bellows much good over the long run. Thus far I have only leaked on the left hand side, rather than the front.

 

[OooOooTheMonkey]

That’s the third tag posted on here from a leaky bellows (mine included) with 2215 as the Pers. No. - still wonder if that’s significant and a common theme for leaky sets of bellows - any others out there with 2215. Could it be the employee’s no. and they are assembling them incorrectly ? Only VW can answer that but a few more leaky tags needed before we can say it’s a real trend.

Where is the tag? I couldn’t find mine.

 

[Andy C Berks.]

Where is the tag? I couldn’t find mine.

It’s attached to the zipper inside the front window of the bellows - I suspect some dealers remove it during the PDI process. Nearly took our off on day one, glad I didn’t now.

 

[OooOooTheMonkey]

It’s attached to the zipper inside the front window of the bellows - I suspect some dealers remove it during the PDI process. Nearly took our off on day one, glad I didn’t now.

Ah ok. Nothing on mine, must’ve been removed.

 

[Calianne]

Thank you so much for organising this survey. Lets hope we can gather some information which will help this to be sorted. My Cali is three weeks old, Indium Grey with grey bellows. I picked it up on the way to Cornwall where it leaked badly from the first night. It has really spoilt the experience of having my new Cali and all the nice changes. For me it is not fit for purpose. The dealer was not aware of this issue and when I get back are loaning a vehicle while they try to sort the problem. They certainly seem to be proactive in dealing with this and for that I am very grateful. It is not a great advert for the California for people to see someone lowering their roof each time it rains or you leave the vehicle. I must admit I do like the look of the new roof and it was one of the changes which influenced my decision to change the T6. I hope a solution will be found soon. A shame really, I loved my T6. Thank you again.

 

[PancakeForrest]

I've had mine replaced and the new one also leaks, both grey.

The first one leaked heavily on the front on a windless day. Closed the roof on rainy days after that.

The second one leaked on the right-hand side, with the wind also coming from that side. It was also leaking a bit on the front but due the wind direction it was not getting as much rain as the side.


Tag of the first one:



Tag of the second one:

 

[Calianne]

Ah ok. Nothing on mine, must’ve been removed.

That’s the third tag posted on here from a leaky bellows (mine included) with 2215 as the Pers. No. - still wonder if that’s significant and a common theme for leaky sets of bellows - any others out there with 2215. Could it be the employee’s no. and they are assembling them incorrectly ? Only VW can answer that but a few more leaky tags needed before we can say it’s a real trend.

That’s the third tag posted on here from a leaky bellows (mine included) with 2215 as the Pers. No. - still wonder if that’s significant and a common theme for leaky sets of bellows - any others out there with 2215. Could it be the employee’s no. and they are assembling them incorrectly ? Only VW can answer that but a few more leaky tags needed before we can say it’s a real trend.

Here is my tag number

 

[RockinNRollin]

Unless I'm missing something, the install should be quite simple? Push-fit seals I think into a recess into the body, then again into the roof? Not sure how an operative could mess up the seams in the process of that?

 

[andyinluton]

Unless I'm missing something, the install should be quite simple? Push-fit seals I think into a recess into the body, then again into the roof? Not sure how an operative could mess up the seams in the process of that?

I don't think anyones saying the installation is wrong, its the sewing that may be, it does then beg the question as to whether the tag is the person that fitted the bellows to the van or the person that assembles/ sewed the bellows.

 

[loftP]

Just added our Ocean to the poll. We are currently on a 4 week uk trip so having lots of opportunity to test water ingress! Our conclusion is that if there is even light wind and persistent, but not necessarily heavy rain, then the stitching will leak. It leaks from the bottom of left, right and front circular vents as well as the front left and right vertical stays. All leaks are from the seams, the fabric itself has not shown any water ingress.

This is our tag

 

[dspuk]

I don't think anyones saying the installation is wrong, its the sewing that may be, it does then beg the question as to whether the tag is the person that fitted the bellows to the van or the person that assembles/ sewed the bellows.

More likely the latter. On the prod line there is just usually one guy that does the final sign off and "ok stamp" of the whole vehicle. Every job before them is then on their head. They are generally the only person you can track a vehicle offline back to. When we had to track things to a rogue operator we ended up having to trawl through shifts and people on that day.

 

[Viktorgeorge]

I was just too early for the new fabric, but am following the woes of slightly later MY2023 vehicles.

Speaking to my wife - whose career in clothes has revolved around sewing machines - she has the following thoughts.

Different needles (and to a lesser extent 'tension') are likely to be behind this.

On industrial sewing machines, in particular, some fabrics require ball point needles, other sharp point needles or universal needles.

Using the wrong needle for a specific fabric could leave larger stitch holes and causes the water porosity being experienced.

Inspection of the two photos posted recently on another string:

Leaking pop tops on 2023 California Oceans

Looking for other peoples' experiences with the new double lined pop top roof (the one that is grey outside / cream inside), and any potential solutions to the problem of leaking though the seams and fabric. In the last week we've had complaints from customers on all four of our March 2023...

vwcaliforniaclub.com

of the previous and current fabrics, shows a slightly smaller stitch length on the newer bellows though that is probably neither here nor there, but also appears to show a large stitch hole on the newer bellows which is relevant. As others have posted, this fabric may also be slightly more 'stretchy': exacerbating the stitch hole size when the bellows are taught and when wind blown.

If VW continue to be evasive, and some form of collective pressure proves necessary, then it might be useful to put details of the stitching to, for example, an industrial sewing machine expert or a tent/marquee specialist. They will soon advise whether defective needles/stitching is the problem.

As a starting point if someone has a close up 'micro' facility on their HD camera (I have it on a 15 year old Panasonic and things have probably improved since) then a series of really close up well lit shots on the stitching, from all angles and sides, might be posted or linked here for forensic examination by experts. My point being that, if you have an expert come back with criticism of the stitching used, you have objective grounds to put to VW to support your case.

 

[loftP]

Just added our Ocean to the poll. We are currently on a 4 week uk trip so having lots of opportunity to test water ingress! Our conclusion is that if there is even light wind and persistent, but not necessarily heavy rain, then the stitching will leak. It leaks from the bottom of left, right and front circular vents as well as the front left and right vertical stays. All leaks are from the seams, the fabric itself has not shown any water ingress.

This is our

I forgot to add that our tag 08/09/2022 pre-dates the poll options so it was included in the earliest available. FYI - The van was ordered July 2021 and delivered end Nov 2022.

 

[Andy C Berks.]

On the current 2023 leaking version of the bellows the window sections appear to be complete cut outs, with the flap then being a separate piece of material that is sewn in along the bottom, with the zips then around the remainder of the semi circle. I wonder why the flap is fully cut out, rather than left attached along the bottom of the window - is that the case with previous versions ? Just seems that if the only cut out was the semi circle where the zips are inserted, then that whole area would be a lot less likely to leak.

 

[Jabberwocky]

Sorry no tag as this has been removed. My Cali was mauufactured end April/begining May '23 and delivered in June. We have had significent leaks in both the side and front aspect and this has resulted in a logged event to our dealer. We wait for details as to the next steps. We are expecting nothing less than a replacement bellows with significantly better perfromance than that currently installed. Very disapointed in the way that our latest Cali has fallen significantly short of our not unreasonable expectations - A fit for purpose Canvas Poptop. (This is our third Cali).
I have completed the poll set up by @andyinluton

 

[RockinNRollin]

Ok so here’s my tag; built second half of May and delivered early July 2023 - new style bellows, so far appears watertight on the back and sides but as yet the front hasn’t been tested.

 

[OooOooTheMonkey]

Our dealer got back to us today and said that our bellows would be replaced as they’re clearly faulty at the front seam. They said bellows unavailable at the moment so we’ll have to wait though. Extremely happy with Breeze and glad we bought our van through them.

 

[.Billy Ocean.]

Our dealer got back to us today and said that our bellows would be replaced as they’re clearly faulty at the front seam. They said bellows unavailable at the moment so we’ll have to wait though. Extremely happy with Breeze and glad we bought our van through them.

Nice one, is that Breeze Poole? We’re still waiting to hear back from Tom…

 

[Jabberwocky]

Our dealer got back to us today and said that our bellows would be replaced as they’re clearly faulty at the front seam. They said bellows unavailable at the moment so we’ll have to wait though. Extremely happy with Breeze and glad we bought our van through them.

The bellows are " on Global back order" according to my dealer. I interpret those words as product withdrawal. We could be in for a long wait before we get a solution. I wonder what impact this saga will have on new build?

 

[OooOooTheMonkey]

Nice one, is that Breeze Poole? We’re still waiting to hear back from Tom…

It’ll be sorted at Breeze in Poole yes. Just so pleased there’s been no hassle at all. A dead simple and very quick commitment to put it right with no fuss.

 

[Vwsuzycampervan]

Adding copy of my bellows tag. If others can do the same then may aid some detective work to find a common thread (no pun intended - given it appears to be the stitching leaking !)

View attachment 111818

Mine is same date and leaking

 

[NickE]

After ten years of totally watertight 5.1 ownership I have.now joined the happy throng of 6.1 owners with leaking bellows. A brand new £65k campervan that can't be used in the rain!

Mine leaks a bit through the seam but mainly at the bottom where the bellows meets the body. The van is three weeks old, I'll be writing to my dealer (Eurovans).

 

[OooOooTheMonkey]

After ten years of totally watertight 5.1 ownership I have.now joined the happy throng of 6.1 owners with leaking bellows. A brand new £65k campervan that can't be used in the rain!

Mine leaks a bit through the seam but mainly at the bottom where the bellows meets the body. The van is three weeks old, I'll be writing to my dealer (Eurovans).

View attachment 112234

Such a shame to hear this. Mine leaks like yours - mainly at the bottom seal.