Drink and sleeping in a California?

[Velma's Dad]

We also like using Britstops at pubs so this is a useful thread.

On the question of what's a private place, this link looks reliable.
www.jmw.co.uk/services-for-you/motoring-law/articles/private-roads/

From that it seems a pub car park would be deemed a public place, at least during licensing hours. Still, the various ways suggested on this thread to demonstrate you're parked up for the night (pop top up, seats turned, pub staff informed) seem to me an adequate safeguard in practice.

(Unless anyone knows of any actual case where an overnighting campervan or motorhome driver has actually been nicked.)

(Yes I know I said motorhome. Wash my mouth out. )

 

[Loz]

I think the police rely on the "Intention to drive clause" a chap I know went to the pub had a few too many decided not to drive home but to sleep in the car as he was too far away to walk. He slept in the car but was woken by the police at 4am breathalysed and arrested for DD.

 

[Velma's Dad]

I think the police rely on the "Intention to drive clause" a chap I know went to the pub had a few too many decided not to drive home but to sleep in the car as he was too far away to walk. He slept in the car but was woken by the police at 4am breathalysed and arrested for DD.

Do you know if he actually got successfully prosecuted? (I realise none of us even wants to get arrested, of course!).

Strictly also, I'm guessing he would have been charged with being drunk in charge, not drink driving (although of course we don't want to get charged with either).

 

[Loz]

Do you know if he actually got successfully prosecuted? (I realise none of us even wants to get arrested, of course!).

Strictly also, I'm guessing he would have been charged with being drunk in charge, not drink driving (although of course we don't want to get charged with either).

I can't remember, but I will be seeing a man who does on Sunday, so if I remember I'll ask him..

I try not to think of everything that can happen to you in life otherwise you might never leave the house, but in my experience knowing what to not to say and do in these situation helps.

eg. everytime we fly Mrs Loz gets into a conversation with the security people and ends up getting strip searched by opening mouth before engaging brain....

 

[GrannyJen]

I know of one person who was nicked for being over the limit with intent..

He was nicked and his defence dismissed. The claim that he had no intention of driving, always intended to just sleep the night in the car park was kicked out because the police had evidence that the engine had been started after the man admitted parking up that evening. I suspect it was probably a witness statement that he got in, started the engine, saw the police ......"

As I said in my initial post. The intent of the law is to close the loophole of "I have been drinking, I had no intent of driving, even if the keys are in the ignition, the engine warm and I'm 300 yards away from the pub I've been drinking in".

You have to prove yourself innocent. If you think that the circumstances of where you are is not sufficient to make any possible prosecution laughable then don't drink.

 

[Loz]

He was nicked and his defence dismissed. The claim that he had no intention of driving, always intended to just sleep the night in the car park was kicked out because the police had evidence that the engine had been started after the man admitted parking up that evening. I suspect it was probably a witness statement that he got in, started the engine, saw the police ......"

Ah! that's what it was I couldn't remember, it was freezing and he was running the engine for the heater...!?!

 

[Velma's Dad]

Ah! that's what it was I couldn't remember, it was freezing and he was running the engine for the heater...!?!

So that's why we have the separate diesel heater in the Cali then. Clever old VW.

Bottoms Up!

 

[GrannyJen]

"I was only moving to check that my handbrake was working, Offisher. Thank you for stopping me to point out it wasn't. Goodnight"

 

[Stoneybroke]

Drink driving has more stated cases than any other area of law.
No likelihood of driving is a valid defence, and have known it be successful, but all circumstances are considered, but that is not just when breath tested, but no likelihood of driving whilst still over the prescribed limit, which could be several hours later, so the more p!$$ed you are, the harder it is to use that defence successfully.
Just consider that hgv drivers use their cabs to sleep in, so Cali owners are not the only ones who have to consider this.

 

[GrannyJen]

Drink driving has more stated cases than any other area of law.
No likelihood of driving is a valid defence, and have known it be successful, but all circumstances are considered, but that is not just when breath tested, but no likelihood of driving whilst still over the prescribed limit, which could be several hours later, so the more p!$$ed you are, the harder it is to use that defence successfully.
Just consider that hgv drivers use their cabs to sleep in, so Cali owners are not the only ones who have to consider this.

Indeed. As I said above. Fit to drive the following morning.

As for HGV. When Scotland reduced their limits the police visited one well known truck stop, breathalysed all the drivers who voluntarily agreed, worked out their alcohol limits the following morning and pointed out that half would not be fit to drive under the new limits until at least 10am.

 

[dougal]

Late to the party here, but we've had the same advice as GJ from a Snr Police Scotland Officer. He said the key decider is intent; demonstrate a lack of intent and you are fine - we have a small wheel clamp that we keep attached until ready to move (and an Accusense Breathalyser).

 

[dougal]

Sorry, Alcosense too many wines tonight

 

[Stoneybroke]

Late to the party here, but we've had the same advice as GJ from a Snr Police Scotland Officer. He said the key decider is intent; demonstrate a lack of intent and you are fine - we have a small wheel clamp that we keep attached until ready to move (and an Accusense Breathalyser).

Perhaps not as much of a guarantee of a defence as it might seem.
In deciding whether there is a likelihood of driving whilst over the limit, the magistrates can disregard any injury to the driver or damage to the vehicle - this means that immobilising the vehicle may not be sufficient to claim there is no likelihood of your driving whilst over the limit, especially if you have the means to enable it by removing the clamp.

 

[Velma's Dad]

Perhaps not as much of a guarantee of a defence as it might seem.
In deciding whether there is a likelihood of driving whilst over the limit, the magistrates can disregard any injury to the driver or damage to the vehicle - this means that immobilising the vehicle may not be sufficient to claim there is no likelihood of your driving whilst over the limit, especially if you have the means to enable it by removing the clamp.

Okay but so far I still have't seen any references to actual cases of actual prosecutions of someone parked up in a campervan or motorhome. Until I see that, I'd assess it as vanishingly unlikely (even if still theoretically possible) that I'd be prosecuted in a Britstop situation etc.

If parked up by the side of the road (etc) I would however be careful not to drink, or at least to wait until I was tucked up in the top bunk then just a wee dram would be it.

 

[T6 CFO]

As someone previously said there is so much case law on this subject. Think common sense and you cannot go far wrong.


Mike

 

[GrannyJen]

I can think of enough hypothetical situations that in the end would either drive me to sell my Cali or change my denomination from anglican to methodist.

Common sense. Can you demonstrate enough lack of intent to prevent prosecution or conviction.

If we wish to go to extremes, I was evacuated from a hotel a few years ago which had inconveniently caught on fire. Vehicles in the car park had to be moved. Am I never going to drink and sleep in an hotel again on the grounds that I might just have to reach for my car keys, at which time, plod hiding just around the corner, will leap out with s triumphant cry of "You're nicked"?

 

[Velma's Dad]

with s triumphant cry of "You're nicked"?

They don't say that, don't be ridiculous. They say "Now come along quietly or it'll go badly for you". And you reply "Okay slap the bracelets on, you got me bang to rights".

 

[GrannyJen]

They don't say that, don't be ridiculous. They say "Now come along quietly or it'll go badly for you". And you reply "Okay slap the bracelets on, you got me bang to rights".

Not True!

In all the policeman films that I've seen they always say "you're nicked"! Especially that nice George Dixon and his nephew Andy .....

 

[Stoneybroke]

Okay but so far I still have't seen any references to actual cases of actual prosecutions of someone parked up in a campervan or motorhome. Until I see that, I'd assess it as vanishingly unlikely (even if still theoretically possible) that I'd be prosecuted in a Britstop situation etc.

If parked up by the side of the road (etc) I would however be careful not to drink, or at least to wait until I was tucked up in the top bunk then just a wee dram would be it.

I think you are right (I think I said something similar earlier in the thread). There's a big difference between a camper, parked up, curtains closed, roof up, seats swiveled, etc. than someone in a car, reclined and resting.
The reality is that if you do not draw attention to yourself by your behaviour, then plod is unlikely to disturb you on the off chance that they will get a whiff of drink to give them the grounds to request a breath test.

 

[Flood51]

I always intended to swivel the drivers seat when doing a Brit Stop at a pub but there was another thread recently about a member being knocked up in the middle of the night by some aggressive fake policemen. Not sure I could make a quick getaway with the seat swivelled. Highly recommend the Alcossense for a morning after check, under £40 and you can get them from Boots online.