Early 180bhp engine problems - is this still 'a thing' in 2020?

[Chapmac]

Hi folks - looking to buy our first California and budget will stretch to an early 5.1 model. I am aware of the engine issues on the 180bhp cars, thanks to this forum, but there seems to be many more 180 than 140bhp vehicles around of this vintage. Also a more powerful engine would be preferable personally.

Two questions really. Firstly as per the thread title. As these cars are now 9-10 years old, if there was likely to be a problem, would it have manifested by now?

Secondly - is there any way to spot potential engine issues when inspecting a vehicle yourself, or indeed if you have a professional inspection?

Thanks

Dom.

 

[WelshGas]

Hi folks - looking to buy our first California and budget will stretch to an early 5.1 model. I am aware of the engine issues on the 180bhp cars, thanks to this forum, but there seems to be many more 180 than 140bhp vehicles around of this vintage. Also a more powerful engine would be preferable personally.

Two questions really. Firstly as per the thread title. As these cars are now 9-10 years old, if there was likely to be a problem, would it have manifested by now?

Secondly - is there any way to spot potential engine issues when inspecting a vehicle yourself, or indeed if you have a professional inspection?

Thanks

Dom.

It's not really the age - but the milage. If the problem is present it tends to kick in at about 60-70,000 miles.

A new engine and associated bits, DPF and Turbo possibly cost about £7,000 to £8,000 by VW. Factor this into your calculations if it is a low milage vehicle.

I have a 2014 now on 95,000 miles and Oil consumption is about 300 mls/20,000 miles. This has gradually fallen since new when it was 1L/20,000 miles.

 

[2into1]

As these cars are now 9-10 years old, if there was likely to be a problem, would it have manifested by now?

No relief here I’m afraid. Although the ‘mean’ mileage is as Welshgas suggests, there are plenty of outliers.
The problem with the cooler persists with some newer vans, but the pre 2012s seem to be disproportionately impacted....perhaps unrelated....not sure if the block design was changed after that?

 

[AlanC]

The issue on the 2010/11 vehicles was the EGR and cooler. The exhaust gas corroded the alloy which in-turn was sucked back into the engine and wore the bores. This, in turn, increased oil consumption and blocked the DPF.

On the 180BHP engine, the cooler is located at the front of the engine under the oil filter. There is a label on this which, if it has been replaced, should show a suffix letter after the part number. Original coolers had no suffix, the most recent ones have a D suffix.

My van developed the problem ay 85K miles and I kept is running with copious amounts of oil until 96K miles when I had a new engine and DPF fitted...all £7500.00 of it. That was in Dec 2016. It has now covered 117000 miles and is not consuming any oil.

If a dealer has changed the engine, there is no way of knowing apart from checking the cooler suffix and asking a VW dealer if there is a record of the change, which there should be. When the new engine is supplied to a VW dealer direct from Germany the original engine number is retained.

However, if an independent dealer replaced the engine, then that would be have been supplied by TPS and the engine number will have been changed.

If I was to buy a 2010 Cali now I would not get the 180bhp version. Easy to say in hindsight I know, but £7500 was a big bill and hit to our savings.

Alan

 

[2into1]

The issue on the 2010/11 vehicles was the EGR and cooler. The exhaust gas corroded the alloy which in-turn was sucked back into the engine and wore the bores. This, in turn, increased oil consumption and blocked the DPF.

The reason I worded it as I did, is that there are sufficient examples of 2013/14 with the disintegrating cooler. (Prior to /d suffix). I thought we’d agreed the 10/11 examples had a further weakness?

 

[bigmac77]

Also consider that VW put 84 and 102ps engines in the T5 range of vehicles so the 140 is not low powered.

 

[AlanC]

The reason I worded it as I did, is that there are sufficient examples of 2013/14 with the disintegrating cooler. (Prior to /d suffix). I thought we’d agreed the 10/11 examples had a further weakness?

I am not aware of any change to the design of the engine apart from the EGR and cooler. Happy to stand corrected though.
I was told by VW customer services at the time that VW was aware of the problem and knew the engine numbers of affected engines. Why there wasn't a general recall we will never know.

Having said that, some later years were also affected despite the cooler having been modified. VW went through suffixes A, B and D. I think C was around for a very short time.

Alan

 

[AlanC]

I should add that other engine versions are not affected as the EGR and coolers on these engines are made of stainless steel I believe. Was an issue only on the 180bhp engines with the alloy cooler.

Alan

 

[Goss]

Hi folks - looking to buy our first California and budget will stretch to an early 5.1 model. I am aware of the engine issues on the 180bhp cars, thanks to this forum, but there seems to be many more 180 than 140bhp vehicles around of this vintage. Also a more powerful engine would be preferable personally.

Two questions really. Firstly as per the thread title. As these cars are now 9-10 years old, if there was likely to be a problem, would it have manifested by now?

Secondly - is there any way to spot potential engine issues when inspecting a vehicle yourself, or indeed if you have a professional inspection?

Thanks

Dom.

I collect my 2012 5.1 180 with 45,000 miles on the clock this week, the dealer had a local VW Dealer check and record compression on all cylinders then relace the EGR with a new one. Cost £1,000 plus vat and everyone is happy.

goss

 

[Chapmac]

Thanks for all your replies folks. Most appreciated.

 

[Meoncoast]

We had a 2012 registered 180 with an early EGR. We sold it in late 2016. It did not use any oil. Due to the issue, a prospective buyer had the dealer undertake a compression check which found issues. So I feel both he and we had a lucky escape. He did not buy the van and it disappeared off the dealer's website and is no longer registered - would love to know what happened to it.

 

[Legin]

So if your buying a t5 why take the risk, get a late 2.5 or a 140 which both seem safe as houses.

 

[Ch1pbutty]

get the 140 and get it remapped

 

[Chapmac]

So if your buying a t5 why take the risk, get a late 2.5 or a 140 which both seem safe as houses.

Pretty much where I have settled. Shame as I've had my eye on an otherwise perfect van. I currently have a very nice T25 Westfalia California, but have been through the pain of having to have its engine replaced, and don't want to go through that again. Once bitten and all that.
Love my old California but now looking for something that will double as a daily driver and reliably take the family to the South of France.

 

[pjm-84]

I have a 2014 now on 95,000 miles and Oil consumption is about 300 mls/20,000 miles. This has gradually fallen since new when it was 1L/20,000 miles.

That's interesting. My 2015 used 1L in the first 18k but since then nothing to mention. I do have the oil changes every year at MOT time so 27k and 37k. I don't use it for short trips either.

 

[WelshGas]

That's interesting. My 2015 used 1L in the first 18k but since then nothing to mention. I do have the oil changes every year at MOT time so 27k and 37k. I don't use it for short trips either.

How do you check the Oil Level?
Engine upto temperature. Switch Off and wait 5 mins, or Engine Cold.

 

[pjm-84]

Generally cold before a long journey.

If I've changed the oil ( on my V8), cold than run the engine to warm and then recheck after allowing to the oil to run back into the sump. Hard to see on the V8.

 

[WelshGas]

Generally cold before a long journey.

If I've changed the oil ( on my V8), cold than run the engine to warm and then recheck after allowing to the oil to run back into the sump. Hard to see on the V8.

I check mine Warm and use a large bore 50 ml syringe to top up. Too cackhanded to just use the bottle. I find the level is higher if the engine is stone cold.
Oil consumption has gradually decreased as the miles have increased.

 

[ThomasHJ]

Pretty much where I have settled. Shame as I've had my eye on an otherwise perfect van. I currently have a very nice T25 Westfalia California, but have been through the pain of having to have its engine replaced, and don't want to go through that again. Once bitten and all that.
Love my old California but now looking for something that will double as a daily driver and reliably take the family to the South of France.

Perhaps then my input will persuade you ;-) We have driven a lovely T4 California untill we recently decided we would like to upgrade and also use the car as a daily driver. Bought a T5 140 and are very happy with it. Honestly don't know why you'd need any more horsepowers for a daily driver / campervan. Do it!

 

[Stephandpeter]

I should add that other engine versions are not affected as the EGR and coolers on these engines are made of stainless steel I believe. Was an issue only on the 180bhp engines with the alloy cooler.

Alan

Hi Alan
We bought a 2011 180bhp T5 at 80K. We have the invoices for the engine change in 2018 at 70K. Following this thread it would appear to be a text book case of the suggested alloy EGR issue. Do you know if this fault would have been addressed by the engine replacement, ie fitting a stainless EGR? Apart from a new clutch and flywheel (£2K) we have not experienced problems. How much should we be concerned?

 

[AlanC]

Hi Alan
We bought a 2011 180bhp T5 at 80K. We have the invoices for the engine change in 2018 at 70K. Following this thread it would appear to be a text book case of the suggested alloy EGR issue. Do you know if this fault would have been addressed by the engine replacement, ie fitting a stainless EGR? Apart from a new clutch and flywheel (£2K) we have not experienced problems. How much should we be concerned?

The stainless EGR is only fitted to the lower power models with one turbo. Your engine is a different design with two turbos.

If the engine was replaced by a VW Commercial Vehicle dealer (the invoice will state this), then it will be a brand new base engine direct from the VW factory. As such it would be exactly the same as originally fitted complete with the latest alloy EGR.

It is easy to check.

On the 180ps engine, the EGR is located at the front of the engine. Look down between the engine and the back of the radiator and you will see the top of black oil filter, This is mounted on the EGR and below this, to the right, you will see a label stuck to the EGR. This will have a date and part number printed on it. The part number will have a suffix letter of A, B or D. The D is the latest one and should be the one you have fitted and the date will be some time in 2018.

The same applies if the engine was fitted by an independent specialist. The only difference is that the engine number will be different from the original number detailed in the handbook.

If the D suffix is on the ERG then you have no need to worry.
The usual maintenance checks such as water and oil levels and oil changes still need to be done of course.

I hope that sets your mind at ease.

Alan

 

[Stephandpeter]

The stainless EGR is only fitted to the lower power models with one turbo. Your engine is a different design with two turbos.

If the engine was replaced by a VW Commercial Vehicle dealer (the invoice will state this), then it will be a brand new base engine direct from the VW factory. As such it would be exactly the same as originally fitted complete with the latest alloy EGR.

It is easy to check.

On the 180ps engine, the EGR is located at the front of the engine. Look down between the engine and the back of the radiator and you will see the top of black oil filter, This is mounted on the EGR and below this, to the right, you will see a label stuck to the EGR. This will have a date and part number printed on it. The part number will have a suffix letter of A, B or D. The D is the latest one and should be the one you have fitted and the date will be some time in 2018.

The same applies if the engine was fitted by an independent specialist. The only difference is that the engine number will be different from the original number detailed in the handbook.

If the D suffix is on the ERG then you have no need to worry.
The usual maintenance checks such as water and oil levels and oil changes still need to be done of course.

I hope that sets your mind at ease.

Alan

Thanks for your prompt response Alan. I will check it out first thing in the morning. Hopefully ok as it was fitted by vw dealer.
Cheers Peter

 

[Goss]

Thanks for your prompt response Alan. I will check it out first thing in the morning. Hopefully ok as it was fitted by vw dealer.
Cheers Peter

We took delivery of a 2012 with 45K but after raising concern the dealer had engine compression tested which showed normal readings, changed the EGR (D) and cooler and major service including cam belt and water pump. So we feel confident with our new purchase. Not so happy about VW’s ethics but I am sure American courts will help them out.

 

[Bobbybus]

I think the overall message here is 'be cautious.' My 2011 180 did not use any oil between services and then quite suddenly at 48k was using about 1 ltr of oil every 6oo to 7oo miles. DPF clogged, always trying to regenerate and often in 'limp home' mode. New engine etc being the only, and very expensive, solution.

 

[2into1]

had engine compression tested which showed normal readings,

You’ve done all the right things so I’m not wanting to raise fresh concerns....but I wondered what ‘normal readings’ mean? Is that just verbal reassurance that the levels were fine or do you have the print out? My understanding is there is both a minimum figure that has to be achieved on each cylinder but also that (whatever the readings are) you want them all to be similar......
Eg if vw say the minimum is 17, you don’t want 21, 20.5, 17.5, 20.2 and 20.8....that’s technically a pass but....