Early 180bhp engine problems - is this still 'a thing' in 2020?

[2into1]

I'd also advise those reading this and wanting to be aware of the risks... That VW's measure of when oil consumption becomes unacceptable is something like 1L per 1000km (620 miles). They seriously say that is you are doing 650miles to the L of oil then you are fine!
So with that ridiculous 'rule' in mind, there is a risk that their 'acceptable' compression levels might (might... I don't know) be equally ridiculous.
I'd want to see how the compression levels of 'my' engine compared to real world examples of healthy engines, not to a figure VW have chosen to be acceptable.

(to those getting lost, the theory is the EGR cooler fins corrode and deposit diamond hard particles in the engine sump. Those particles get stuck in the piston rings and wear the cylinder bores terribly. (shows as low compression). Oil then passes the rings and is burnt (consumed) in combustion.... Which causes the dpf to fill too quickly... Which is the other warning sign).

 

[AndrewBye]

As a 2011 plate 180 owner I now have concerns after seeing these and other posts I have checked the sticker for prefixes bot have no A,B or D how do I investigate further​

 

[2into1]

As a 2011 plate 180 owner I now have concerns after seeing these and other posts I have checked the sticker for prefixes bot have no A,B or D how do I investigate further​

View attachment 54902

Yours is 'pre suffix' so aligns with your early van. Any suffix is on the end of the long number starting 03L....
They went 'yours', then /A, /C (I don't think there was a B...or very small numbers) then /D which is the one everyone is hoping is better.

There's no need to panic, but now you've started the reading, I guess you'll want to know everything. Perhaps join the facebook group so you can get some more feel of the potential problem, although that inevitably concentrates on the problem engines.

 

[Goss]

You’ve done all the right things so I’m not wanting to raise fresh concerns....but I wondered what ‘normal readings’ mean? Is that just verbal reassurance that the levels were fine or do you have the print out? My understanding is there is both a minimum figure that has to be achieved on each cylinder but also that (whatever the readings are) you want them all to be similar......
Eg if vw say the minimum is 17, you don’t want 21, 20.5, 17.5, 20.2 and 20.8....that’s technically a pass but....

I have requested the readings from the VW Dealer but have been assured that they were perfectly normal for the engine. I have rebuilt many engines myself so would expect readings to be similar on all 4 cylinders. PO said no oil consumption so fingers crossed.

 

[2into1]

on all 4 cylinders

Oh yeah, in my example I was still with 5 cylinder engines!

 

[willwander]

As a 2011 plate 180 owner I now have concerns after seeing these and other posts I have checked the sticker for prefixes bot have no A,B or D how do I investigate further​

This highlights one of the main issues I had with owning a 180, even if there is nothing wrong with yours, once you become aware of the potential oil consumption problem you become somewhat paranoid and OCD checking your oil

 

[soppelsa]

What do you think exacerbates the corrosion is it short journeys,driving hard or not using high octane fuel with all the so called additives in.

 

[AndrewBye]

Yours is 'pre suffix' so aligns with your early van. Any suffix is on the end of the long number starting 03L....
They went 'yours', then /A, /C (I don't think there was a B...or very small numbers) then /D which is the one everyone is hoping is better.

There's no need to panic, but now you've started the reading, I guess you'll want to know everything. Perhaps join the facebook group so you can get some more feel of the potential problem, although that inevitably concentrates on the problem engines.

Does that mean it has a faulty egr or are the pre suffix models reliable??

 

[Legin]

I'd also advise those reading this and wanting to be aware of the risks... That VW's measure of when oil consumption becomes unacceptable is something like 1L per 1000km (620 miles). They seriously say that is you are doing 650miles to the L of oil then you are fine!
So with that ridiculous 'rule' in mind, there is a risk that their 'acceptable' compression levels might (might... I don't know) be equally ridiculous.
I'd want to see how the compression levels of 'my' engine compared to real world examples of healthy engines, not to a figure VW have chosen to be acceptable.

(to those getting lost, the theory is the EGR cooler fins corrode and deposit diamond hard particles in the engine sump. Those particles get stuck in the piston rings and wear the cylinder bores terribly. (shows as low compression). Oil then passes the rings and is burnt (consumed) in combustion.... Which causes the dpf to fill too quickly... Which is the other warning sign).

Just a minor point of clarification, the Aluminium oxide particles go into the intake not the sump. I would also be concerned about any Alumina already in there before the EGR is swapped to the D variant.

 

[2into1]

Just a minor point of clarification, the Aluminium oxide particles go into the intake not the sump. I would also be concerned about any Alumina already in there before the EGR is swapped to the D variant.

Yep.... I was trying to summarise.

 

[2into1]

Does that mean it has a faulty egr or are the pre suffix models reliable??

It has the 'faulty' egr... But yours might be in perfect condition. You can't check without removing it and cutting it in half. You can however do an oil analysis at a modest cost which will alert you to the presence of nasties in your oil.

 

[AndrewBye]

It has the 'faulty' egr... But yours might be in perfect condition. You can't check without removing it and cutting it in half. You can however do an oil analysis at a modest cost which will alert you to the presence of nasties in your oil.

Ok thanks

 

[Goss]

You’ve done all the right things so I’m not wanting to raise fresh concerns....but I wondered what ‘normal readings’ mean? Is that just verbal reassurance that the levels were fine or do you have the print out? My understanding is there is both a minimum figure that has to be achieved on each cylinder but also that (whatever the readings are) you want them all to be similar......
Eg if vw say the minimum is 17, you don’t want 21, 20.5, 17.5, 20.2 and 20.8....that’s technically a pass but....

Readings back and less than 0.5bar between all 4 cylinders, 22.6, 22.5, 22.9 & 23.0 bar. Normal tolerance would be no more than 10% so all good

 

[2into1]

Readings back and less than 0.5bar between all 4 cylinders, 22.6, 22.5, 22.9 & 23.0 bar. Normal tolerance would be no more than 10% so all good

That's great news and a very useful reference for others with this worry. Reading back your van is a 2012 with 45k miles on a pre '/D' cooler (I don't think you told us what was on it before the change... But obviously wasn't a /d).
If others are worried they could get their compression checked against these ratings. It will help them decide if a pre-emptive change of cooler would be worthwhile (and might even be better than money in the bank when it comes to resale).

 

[Goss]

I don’t know what was fitted on there as I did not have a chance to check seeing as the bus was at the dealers VW workshop. What I really wanted was the best chance of avoiding any future problems which was taken care of by the campervan company. Hopefully as claimed the d version has been ceramic coated inside which should do the job.

goss

 

[2cvhound]

As I understand it the 40Bhp increase is achieved by adding a second turbo to the one supplied with a 140Bhp. Would it be possible to remove the second turbo and replace with a stainless EGR and simply run as a 140? I stand to be corrected - not used to these engines!

 

[pjm-84]

Just emulate until VW can comes up with a cooler that doesn't eat itself. 81.3k miles / no oil use

 

[sprout99]

Ours is the 2011 model and died at 98.134 miles.

had been using oil but we just accepted it. Oil temp started to run hot on a dual carriageway run then started knocking ... ist Kaput !

The garage who swapped the engine were curious as to why it had died.

turns out that the oil gallery on the crank was blocked with carbon, Oil starvation on cylinder 1 killed the crankshaft...which was probably as a consequence of the poor compression casued by bore wear and blow by during ignition.

I bought the engine from TPS, got turbo rebuilt and clutch refreshed and with labour was about £5k

we are 15,000 miles onto new engine and no issues at all.

The only noticeable difference is the latest ECU software imposed by VW that was needed to keep 2 year guarantee... it likes to drink juice. Fully loaded its doing high 20's mpg (its 4motion BTW)

its a big heavy brick afterall

 

[sprout99]

New engine from VW comes with new injectors and the latest EGR - Which was why that was better value than a reconditioned unit.

 

[JustChris86]

I bought a 2015 T5.1 180 bi turbo privately around March last year circa 58k miles. It had just been serviced before I bought it, I took it on one trip to wales and back ~300 miles and it consumed all the oil from that service down to low oil warning on dash. I THEN discovered about these EGR issues. Lots of (too late) research and bad oil contamination and compression test results later, I’ve had a reconditioned engine fitted from Ivor searl and taken preventative measures against the EGR…….. Cost me £7k, what I will say is it’s a lovely engine when it’s working very smooth and powerful and reasonable fuel economy. If no evidence the engine has been changed or that the EGR wasn’t blocked early days then budget for an engine or avoid if you can’t afford the impending bill. My car was a D suffix EGR, VW never fixed this problem properly so if it says D it’s still a ticking time bomb.

 

[pjm-84]

Agree...jury is still out. A 2015 would have been on a C suffix so maybe worth finding out when this was swapped out

 

[Vagophile]

My commiserations. I acquired my used california (2013 year) in March 2020 It had the D suffix EGR. and 60,000 miles. All went well until last year when it suddenly started to consume oil, but not at the rate that VW deem excessive. A Millers oil analysis showed the aluminium ppm to be high, but not beyond "acceptable" limits.. As I am currently doing comparatively little mileage, I have decided to just live with it until the problem becomes serious. Strangely, since the most recent oil change, consumption seems to have reduced.
Although we are a two car family, I am considering selling one and it is the California that will stay as I find it the best all round vehicle for our lifestyle.