Electric roof vs Beach roof

[koups]

I agree that roof electric failures are expensive and it is only a matter of time. I had an issue with one side dropping down within only a few hours- was in warranty, took to garage and they replaced the hydraulics. It still tipped down on that side after the replacement which was annoying and couldn't get a fix.

Now, the roof has decided to drop in a very wonky fashion and needs to be looked at again. I have booked in but am concerned about the price tag for this fix.

To be honest, I would prefer a manual roof with much less problems to go wrong.

Has anyone on the board converted to manual from electric?

 

[Kaydee]

Thanks Alex but I still fail to see why the hydraulics need removing they aren't in the way.A gas strut is a simple bolt at either end and once the front struts are gone they aren't going to interfere with anything.secondly if the hydraulics aren't leaking then why start pulling pipes out,the rams are connected to the struts with bolts,nothing to do with the fluid.I do understand that as a service manager you are hardly going to say that it's actually pretty straightforward,since as far as I can see ,(and I have looked into this ) pretty much the whole roof is common to both vehicles,I know that the roof straps would have to be mounted ,but I really can't see any way of inducing a hydraulic fluid leak if you simply uncouple the push rod from the end of the ram,I do understand though that VW would hardly want to see this being done,it's not in their best interests after all.

 

[Kaydee]

So here are a few open questions to anybody working for VW
1) if the forward struts are removed from a California can the gas struts be fitted using supplied brackets to the existing California rails
2) Can VW supply the struts and rail fixings ,if so,what is the cost
3) Can VW supply the internal roof securing straps/clips/brackets if so what is the cost
Assuming this is outside warranty is there any good reason for not making this information available at the point that the hydraulic roof fails...other than not wanting to tell us.
Sorry if this is a little blunt but I have worked in and have friends in vehicle development and the cynic in me knows that there are some things we the customers shouldn't be allowed to know.
I also know it won't be simple,but it would be nice if VW were prepared to actually state why it can't be done.
If I am wrong,apologies to anyone who thinks I am being awkward

 

[James]

It may be an idea at COTF to put a Beach and Cali side by side and look at them in detail.

I think what Alex is saying, is, if he was to do the job, he'd junk/remove everything that isn't required even if in theory it could be left.

I believe the prefacelift models in LHD form came in Trendline spec and didn't have an electric roof.

It would be a tempting conversion, I can fully understand why Cali SE owners would do it. But I'd want it to be complete.

The manual roof isn't without problems, though perhaps not the expensive repairs

James

 

[martinhjones]

Definitely interested. I can't tell you what it feels like to be here in France wondering if next time I try to lower the roof the panel will fail on me. I'm camped near to a Mercedes Westfalia and for the first time I'm feeling a bit jealous.
Thanks Kaydee for pursuing this, and thanks to Alex for your replies: if all the (next) failure might need is to have a diagnostoc code reset (instead of yhe €750 replacement) is this something I can do myself at a push?

 

[Kaydee]

Yes,I agree that that's what Alex is saying James,and I take his point about removing the unwanted hardware,his words were "if you are going to go to the hassle of converting then take out the old bits,but the fact is that taking out the old bits is the real,expensive hassle,not removing a couple of metal struts and bolting on 2 gas struts.I know that manual roofs aren't completely trouble free but I have never heard of one jamming open and requiring garage intervention and the original poster was looking for a simpler option when the electric roof fails,so ...on with the research ...unless someone at VW knows better !

 

[koups]

I can't tell you what it feels like to be here in France wondering if next time I try to lower the roof the panel will fail on me.

I agree with this- when you have the roof up and cannot get it down due to somekind of malfunction, faced with a manual deflate then using velco straps to prevent the roof from flying away, it is not the best feeling.

I was lucky in that my wonky roof came down but I am now waiting for the teeth-sucking VW garage coming back to me with the cost of ? "new hydraulics"! If I am lucky it will just be a small screw that needs tightening but what's the chances of that!

 

[martinhjones]

Just to be clear: the roof came down but didn't complete the closing sequence. The panel was declaring it "open" but wouldn't raise or close it.
I could drive it with fingers crossed unless they were in my ears trying to soften the alarm noise.
But no raising of the roof for the next 4 weeks was not a popular situation and needed rectifying for the sake of peace and harmony.

 

[koups]

Ah OK- I am surprised that mine didn't alarm on lowering with one side down and the other still a few feet up in the air. Goodness knows how it closed. I can only think the side that came down more quickly was the faulty one..

 

[James]

Yes,I agree that that's what Alex is saying James,and I take his point about removing the unwanted hardware,his words were "if you are going to go to the hassle of converting then take out the old bits,but the fact is that taking out the old bits is the real,expensive hassle,not removing a couple of metal struts and bolting on 2 gas struts.I know that manual roofs aren't completely trouble free but I have never heard of one jamming open and requiring garage intervention and the original poster was looking for a simpler option when the electric roof fails,so ...on with the research ...unless someone at VW knows better !

No I agree, manual roof every time - I like the roof on the Beach it like its simplicity - even that seems to tie in with the Beach character.

Hopefully will come up with a conversion to sell on to those who want to do it.

James

 

[Ajspicer]

Wow, I never expected this level of response to my original post? Having restored and customised Classic VWS in the past, this conversion really has to be relatively simple and instead of asking VW questions that they will not be keen to answer or to carry out work, we just need to establish the parts list and price the bits required for the conversion.

A good start would be if we could get hold of the exploded diagrams for both the SE and Beach so the common parts can be established, I might pop into Heritage and ask for them in the next day or two.

Am I right in thinking the beach roof is higher than the SE when fully elevated, if so, this could cause a problem as there may not be enough slack in the canvas for the struts to fully open, just a thought.

You must remember anything is possible, I had a fully functioning Cali kitchen, leisure battery system and water tanks in my T5 conversion and I didn't even have the central control panel! everything was rewired using the California wiring diagram. In fact, in some respects I feel it was an improvement as I could control the temp of my fridge to the nearest 0.5 degree C instead of an unknown value of 1 to max, what does to 1 or max actually mean!

I was also responsible for establishing that the fridges are simple to repair and the cost is about 10% of that VW seem to charge to replace the fridge unit.

I also nearly installed a Cali roof and that was even operational without the control panel.

I think my experience just goes to show that anyone who owns one of these vehicles who is on a budget, like ourselves or those who intend to keep it for a long long time can do so without fear of expensive repair bills for parts that are definitely not required and functionality can be retained and even improved in most cases.

Thanks to Alex from SMG for comments on this post to date, very helpful. I cannot see the staff at heritage being quite so approachable!

Andrew.

 

[Ajspicer]

I will also speak to my contact who was going to fit my roof, he has done scores of them, both SE and Beach, he is sure to know both the roofs inside out and will probably know the list of differing parts off the top of his head.

Andrew.

 

[James]

I believe that the Beach roof opens higher - at the back it appears to be higher.

James

 

[Andy]

Ah OK- I am surprised that mine didn't alarm on lowering with one side down and the other still a few feet up in the air. Goodness knows how it closed. I can only think the side that came down more quickly was the faulty one..

May have been an air lock that has now been forced out ?

Sent from my GT-I9305 using Tapatalk

 

[smgcowfoldparts]

There is a valve in the roof pump that can fail and cause one side to not come down etc...We have replace a couple for doing this.

cheers

 

[Ajspicer]

Hi all, I have just spoken to my contact who knows the beach roofs and SE roofs very well and would like to help if possible.

Please can people list their common problems experienced with the SE roof and I will then forward all this info to him for his consideration.

I should point out that he does think the conversion would be quite expensive as the canvas would probably have to be changed as the longer travel of the beach gas struts might pull the SE canvas out of the roof seals!

Andrew.

 

[Kaydee]

Andrew,just a thought,if the lift heights are slightly different ,and I am sure your friend will know the answer to this, why not just change the position of one end of the gas strut,by positioning the upper end further forward or the lower end further back the lift height can be changed,if this is a problem ,there are quite a lot of struts out there in different sizes.
Just a point that will need addressing .
Well done

 

[snowy55]

Hi there Ajspicer

You said
"I should point out that he does think the conversion would be quite expensive as the canvas would probably have to be changed as the longer travel of the beach gas struts might pull the SE canvas out of the roof seals!"

Would it not be better to get "generic" gas struts to match the load and travel required?

Does the Beach strut have a number/code on it that indicates the load required and then get shorter travel struts to match the SE canvas

Just a thought

Keep up the good work.

 

[calikev]

That's what I was thinking I'm sure you could find the right length struts

 

[Vwcaliforniajapan]

I have a Comfort liner from 2013 and during this summer I experienced many times that the roof doesn't close the last 1-2 inches in one or both sides !!
It seems like it's the lock(s) that doesn't catch the right way but the control panel says closed.
Now this is really terrible when traveling alone since I need someone to help to push when the roof goes down.
I'm in Denmark and went to 2 different VW dealers , but they don't have experience about this problem, so now I have booked a garage in Kiel, Germany.
I love the car, but this is my first summer in it, and it's ofcourse very disappointing !

 

[westfalia]

Hi everyone,
Has anyone upgraded to a non-electric roof ?
Was it possible or possible but too expensive/problematic.

 

[soulstyledevon]

The guy from Belgium will be very happy this morning. Someone used the search function

 

[umby27]

Hi, any news on this? We had hydraulic roof problems this weekend and was also wondering to upgrade to a manual (yes I consider this an UPgrade) since now the "cali coast" also offers the manual roof....

Our roof opened and then started screeching during lifting more than usual (hell of a noise). It seemed to have opened with effort but could see that there was a little slack in the canvas. Prayed that night it would close in the morning..... It did close with more noise and hesitation. I had to open and close many times before it went fully down. Next night it opened only about 20 centimeters. Just enough to steel the mattress and sleep downstairs. I had to climb on the roof and push it down while my wife pressed the close function. Eventually it closed and hooked itself into the locks. What a blessing! Could drive home safely. Now scheduled repair at VW in Amersfoort, NL. Crossed fingers in wallet.

 

[umby27]

Thought a follow up on this would be welcome, the roof problem was caused by a leak in the oil line above drivers seat (left). Some oil leaked down the door but did not cause major damage. The rest of the oil was contained in the fabric roof panel. VW Campercenter Amersfoort replaced oil line and charged a fair 200 eur for all. All good now. Since then the hydraulic roof works great again.

 

[Sp0_0k]

Would go manual anytime. Not just reliability, but I open close the tent in seconds. In storms, no bungees, no other person runnin around.
I manually drag and head stays inside, visually checking each fabric part folding properly.
Last thing that was very useful, I could half open the tent in the garage for drying. The top was just pushing against the ceiling. Not sure if you can do it with electric.