Elevating roof issues, updates

[Frankyworthy]

Hi All,

In the spirit of learning as we go, here’s my latest pop top roof instalment, just over two years since the last post when it had been fixed.

Below is a picture of a cracked roof sensor which is affecting my roof operation. In September 2018, I paid almost £800 to secure a new loom and use its sensors to heat seal onto my failed roof loom. This work done by Hadwin’s in the S Lakes.

Just over two years later, (and out of VW dealer warranty) I am having the same issues, repeated roof bonging while driving, and the roof failing sporadically.

So back to Hadwin’s (160 mile round trip). Again one of the sensors has cracked, as per picture. Apparently water is getting in and swelling the sensors which crack, get damp then fail. How and why this is happening is beyond me at the moment.

This time instead of buying a new loom + £250 I am on the look out for someone with a spare loom that I can cannibalise for a small fee. Or can I source a cheap sensor to do the job of this small piece of kit?

Any thoughts welcome.

Best Christmas wishes all

Paul

 

[calikev]

try kernow campers they fit cali roofs

 

[Frankyworthy]

try kernow campers they fit cali roofs

Thanks Calikev. I’ll drop them a line

 

[andrew bazeley]

Oh dear - I do feel for you. Have standards dropped, do you think? I've had my Cali for 12 years now, and the roof must have been popped up-and-down thousands of times. Never had a problem with the operation or the displays/alarms (I hope I haven't tempted fate by saying that!). Good luck with it, anyway.

 

[Frankyworthy]

Thanks Andrew,

I suppose I’m looking for the wisdom of the crowd for 2 issues:
1. Water and damp ingress into roof loom area which affects/damages sensors. Any experience of this anybody else?
2. Anybody with expertise replacing the actual sensors, heat sealing onto an existing wiring loom? Or a specialist who does? Maybe VW conversion experts as was suggested above.

cheers

 

[andrew bazeley]

Thanks Andrew,

I suppose I’m looking for the wisdom of the crowd for 2 issues:
1. Water and damp ingress into roof loom area which affects/damages sensors. Any experience of this anybody else?
2. Anybody with expertise replacing the actual sensors, heat sealing onto an existing wiring loom? Or a specialist who does? Maybe VW conversion experts as was suggested above.

cheers

Of course - I understand that I'm not helping much with the solution! Maybe I should be talking to VW! I really hope you can solve it.

 

[Martin Batt]

I've just had the same problem diagnosed by Carrs in Exeter - £990 inc parts, labour and VAT to fix it - out of warranty of course. It looks like, along with the very dodgy design control unit, this is a weak spot. Perhaps a fully manual roof might have been a better bet...

 

[WelshGas]

Well 6 years on, and others for a lot longer, no problems, but used on a regular basis.

 

[vbk1975]

Thanks Andrew,

I suppose I’m looking for the wisdom of the crowd for 2 issues:
1. Water and damp ingress into roof loom area which affects/damages sensors. Any experience of this anybody else?
2. Anybody with expertise replacing the actual sensors, heat sealing onto an existing wiring loom? Or a specialist who does? Maybe VW conversion experts as was suggested above.

Hi All,

In the spirit of learning as we go, here’s my latest pop top roof instalment, just over two years since the last post when it had been fixed.

Below is a picture of a cracked roof sensor which is affecting my roof operation. In September 2018, I paid almost £800 to secure a new loom and use its sensors to heat seal onto my failed roof loom. This work done by Hadwin’s in the S Lakes.

Just over two years later, (and out of VW dealer warranty) I am having the same issues, repeated roof bonging while driving, and the roof failing sporadically.

So back to Hadwin’s (160 mile round trip). Again one of the sensors has cracked, as per picture. Apparently water is getting in and swelling the sensors which crack, get damp then fail. How and why this is happening is beyond me at the moment.

This time instead of buying a new loom + £250 I am on the look out for someone with a spare loom that I can cannibalise for a small fee. Or can I source a cheap sensor to do the job of this small piece of kit?

Any thoughts welcome.

Best Christmas wishes all

Paul

View attachment 70935

Does the sensor look like this in detail ?(ignoring the wires/connectors)


They look like generic roof switches from TE, (although they no longer appear listed as current parts), but BMW source including fly lead looks great value, assuming they are the same part.

BMW Part 54 34 7 190 735 ~£15 (BMW 1 Series Convertible Part according to Z4 Forum, they have apparently have failed / water damaged sensors on the Z4s as well)

https://www.te.com/commerce/DocumentDelivery/DDEController?Action=showdoc&DocId=Data+Sheet%7FCylinder_Hall_Switch%7FA%7Fpdf%7FEnglish%7FENG_DS_Cylinder_Hall_Switch_A.pdf%7FCAT-ATS0050

So given they are highly likely to be the same part/interface, fingers crossed. It would be a question of splicing into the existing loom, various methods. But using glue filled heat shrink over joint is standard best practice, even if you use a glue filled joint.

This heat shrink is ideal; https://www.hilltop-products.co.uk/...bing/rbk-ils-125/rbk-il1-5s-125-nr0-dspl.html

 

[Martin Batt]

Thanks. Waiting to hear why the sensors failed- and to see what they look like!

 

[Frankyworthy]

Hi
thanks for reaching out. My independent VW Audi mechanic is looking for a VW workaround. I’ll show him the BMW items. Pic below is failed one taken from my loom.

will get back to you in a day or two

Paul

 

[cpjb@btinternet.com]

Hi Paul - Would be very grateful if you could follow-up on this as my van started "the bonging noise" out of the blue yesterday when driving along - with the van roof up symbol showing on the control panel (when clearly it wasn't). I checked and no error codes showing, but feel it's only a matter of time before the roof starts failing given all of the other threads I've read relating to this problem. In the short term may just need to identify and take out the fuse to stop the bonging noise (if that's possible)! Very irritating, and could possibly be an expensive fix unless vbk1975 has hit the jackpot.

 

[Frankyworthy]

Hi Paul - Would be very grateful if you could follow-up on this as my van started "the bonging noise" out of the blue yesterday when driving along - with the van roof up symbol showing on the control panel (when clearly it wasn't). I checked and no error codes showing, but feel it's only a matter of time before the roof starts failing given all of the other threads I've read relating to this problem. In the short term may just need to identify and take out the fuse to stop the bonging noise (if that's possible)! Very irritating, and could possibly be an expensive fix unless vbk1975 has hit the jackpot.

Will do. Chatted to my man this am and emailed him the vbk info and photos for him to chase up. I will follow up this week and see him next week for my MOT. I’m very optimistic about this.

 

[cpjb@btinternet.com]

Thanks. Fingers crossed - they look very similar so let's hope!!

 

[vbk1975]

The other option might be to just replace the magnet, which is the thing that is rusty, this assumes the actual Hall sensor is intact with in the sensor housing, the lack of corrosion within wires on @Frankyworthy's cut off sensor would suggest water hasn't got into the circuit.

I suspect the outer housings are being cracked, which allows the magnet to get rusty and the magnetic strength drops, which means the sensor stops sensing the when the end position is reached.

It would be a question of finding the right size magnet, correct strength & making sure the pole was the correct way round when installed, but easy to swap. Then reseal the whole lot, without having to touch the vehicle wiring.

 

[Martin Batt]

Thanks. Waiting to hear why the sensors failed- and to see what they look like!

It seems the sensors just failed... nothing offered as to why. But at least Carrs Exeter Van Centre offered to defray 50% of the cost of fixing this although I'm heading for 2 years out of warranty. Good guys, I'm pleased to report, and I really can't fault Pete Sowden and his team.

 

[Kernowboy]

It seems the sensors just failed... nothing offered as to why. But at least Carrs Exeter Van Centre offered to defray 50% of the cost of fixing this although I'm heading for 2 years out of warranty. Good guys, I'm pleased to report, and I really can't fault Pete Sowden and his team.

That’s good to hear - not the sensors failing, the bit on Carr’s. They’ve had a bit if a bashing in the past so it would be useful to pop a review in the dealers section if you have a moment.

 

[vbk1975]

Will do. Chatted to my man this am and emailed him the vbk info and photos for him to chase up. I will follow up this week and see him next week for my MOT. I’m very optimistic about this.

ok, so probably due to lockdown boredom, I ordered the BMW sensor even although I don't actually have an issue with the roof at the moment. (But I would rather pay £15 now than £100s in a few years)

So comparing it, without removing the sensor from my van, it does appear to be physically the same part, including the wire colours (My van is 2017)

I would strongly suggest this is likely to be electrically the same part, @Frankyworthy please let us know if this works for you. I don't want anyone to waste money on my guess, but if it works it could be a significant cost save. @Loz do you have you any history/knowledge about this issue?

I would splice in to the harness on top of the cylinder, from what could see the harness easy to access at that point and it just taped up, so removing the tape, splicing the new sensor wires in and re-taping, it could look like the factory.

 

[KGCali]

Great post. Where did you buy the BMW sensor from?

 

[vbk1975]

Great post. Where did you buy the BMW sensor from?

BMW Shop

Checked out at guest, you need to confirm the vehicle is a "1 Series", then "Convertible" and confirm it is a "12/07 to 10/13 (E88)" , you can either have it sent to a dealer that accept online orders (only a few do) or have it posted directly with an extra postage charge.

A

 

[Frankyworthy]

Update.
I bought two sensors from my local BMW parts centre at a tenner each and had them delivered to my VW Audi man. Van in today for MOT and roof fix, fingers crossed.

Credit and thanks to vbk1975 for the heavy lifting on this work around. Will report back later

Paul

 

[Frankyworthy]

Hi All

Yes!! It worked. The hardest part for my mechanic was getting the roof open but it kicked in and cooperate and after several goes.

Going forward, if you get the bonging while driving and the roof is down, check that it works when stationery.

BMW Part 54 34 7 190 735 This is the required part if you determine it is the sensors that are failing due to ingress, freeze thaw action and then compromised and/or intermittent function.

My fella charged £40 and he paid for the two sensors I ordered to be delivered direct to him from BMW parts. He’ll get a nice gratuity at Christmas.

Happy days.

Now to work out why damp enters under the roof only on the driver‘s side. Any thoughts folks?

 

[cpjb@btinternet.com]

Great news. My wife's just put forward a theory that the awning cassette may be hindering the drying off/evaporation process on the driver's side.

Could stengthen the case for an external topper.

 

[Frankyworthy]

Great news. My wife's just put forward a theory that the awning cassette may be hindering the drying off/evaporation process on the driver's side.

Could stengthen the case for an external topper.

Interesting theory. But we don’t have an an awning cassette as we use the blow up Gybe awning which is incompatible with the wind out.

 

[vbk1975]

Hi All

Yes!! It worked. The hardest part for my mechanic was getting the roof open but it kicked in and cooperate and after several goes.

Going forward, if you get the bonging while driving and the roof is down, check that it works when stationery.

BMW Part 54 34 7 190 735 This is the required part if you determine it is the sensors that are failing due to ingress, freeze thaw action and then compromised and/or intermittent function.

My fella charged £40 and he paid for the two sensors I ordered to be delivered direct to him from BMW parts. He’ll get a nice gratuity at Christmas.

Happy days.

Now to work out why damp enters under the roof only on the driver‘s side. Any thoughts folks?

If the sensor doesn't appear to be cracked, or indeed subject to rain under the ram cover, then it might be entering into the sensor via the cables.

Is there any sign of slight blackening/darkening / erosion (pitting) in the old sensor wire strands? If water gets into a harness, capillary action can take water a long way from the source of the water entering and more often or not ends up in an ECU, Motor or Sensor.

I would open the roof on the drivers side and check the wire run along the whole way before it enters the van. When the drain tubes on my van block, the sensor harness would be sitting in water, it only takes a slight nick in the wire insulation to allow water in. it is less unlikely near the ram as the plastic cover sits over the ram and the wires are top side.

Andrew