Elevating roof issues, updates

[cpjb@btinternet.com]

Good thinking vbk1975 - I'll check for that.

By the way congratulations for identifying the BMW part. You're going to save a lot of people a lot of money. Just keep it secret until I've ordered a couple for myself. I can see BMW 1 series convertible people having to buy VW wiring looms in the future to fix their roofs!!

 

[vbk1975]

Good thinking vbk1975 - I'll check for that.

By the way congratulations for identifying the BMW part. You're going to save a lot of people a lot of money. Just keep it secret until I've ordered a couple for myself. I can see BMW 1 series convertible people having to buy VW wiring looms in the future to fix their roofs!!

Great hope it helps.

Now having looked on ebay for convertible roof parts, I have a long list of cars that use Power-Packer roof systems (VW Cali is Power-Packer) and thus the ram sensors seem to be common for that design of ram.

Ford, Jag, Audi, Mitsubishi, BMW, Saab, Renualt, Vauxhall, Merc & Volvo all seem to use the same family of sensors, rams, pumps. Upto mid 2015, most companies now have direct electric roofs and the pump goes.

Does this all look a little bit familiar..... Clearly the VW roof is a bespoke solution (ram lengths, pump config) , but i am confident there are numerous cheap roof fixes yet to be discovered.

4 sensors just in this lot and i am sure the pump motor is the same.

 

[Sad]

Now to work out why damp enters under the roof only on the driver‘s side. Any thoughts folks?

Blocked roof drains?

 

[KGCali]

Roof not closing evenly? Check with paper between the rubber seals to ensure its trapped, if it's loose remove, clean and adjust the roof seal. Could also be roof rail rivets that leak, just apply some silicone over the rivets and test.

If the roof lining above the driver's door is damp check to seal on the front cowl is not cracked, assuming you have had the front cowl corrosion issue fixed with the plastic cap.

 

[Civil400]

Update.
I bought two sensors from my local BMW parts centre at a tenner each and had them delivered to my VW Audi man. Van in today for MOT and roof fix, fingers crossed.

Credit and thanks to vbk1975 for the heavy lifting on this work around. Will report back later

Paul

Hi Paul.
Please would you mind sharing the details of the person / company you used to fix your roof?
Currently I am booked in with VW to fix similar issues and ideally want to cancel my booking and go down the cheaper route.
Thank you.
Robert.

Hi All

Yes!! It worked. The hardest part for my mechanic was getting the roof open but it kicked in and cooperate and after several goes.

Going forward, if you get the bonging while driving and the roof is down, check that it works when stationery.

BMW Part 54 34 7 190 735 This is the required part if you determine it is the sensors that are failing due to ingress, freeze thaw action and then compromised and/or intermittent function.

My fella charged £40 and he paid for the two sensors I ordered to be delivered direct to him from BMW parts. He’ll get a nice gratuity at Christmas.

Happy days.

Now to work out why damp enters under the roof only on the driver‘s side. Any thoughts folks?Hi

Hi Paul. Please are you able to recommend who you VW mechanic is?
Thanks. Robert.

 

[Frankyworthy]

Hi Paul.
Please would you mind sharing the details of the person / company you used to fix your roof?
Currently I am booked in with VW to fix similar issues and ideally want to cancel my booking and go down the cheaper route.
Thank you.
Robert.


Hi Paul. Please are you able to recommend who you VW mechanic is?
Thanks. Robert.

Hi Robert,

sorry I didn’t see notifications of new messages.

I used my local VW Audi mechanic. It’s a relatively straightforward job so no need to trouble dealerships and hand over big sums!

hope this helps

 

[KGCali]

..........Now to work out why damp enters under the roof only on the driver‘s side. Any thoughts folks?

Did you find the cause of the damp?

 

[Frankyworthy]

Did you find the cause of the damp?

Sadly not yet. Still to determine. It’s not the drain holes.

 

[Ch1pbutty]

I took the trim off at the weekend to switch the microphone in the headlining, but noticed that the roof drain hose had been restricted by a cable tie being overtightened (this would have been like this since the van was new):

 

[Stubbie]

Hi All,

In the spirit of learning as we go, here’s my latest pop top roof instalment, just over two years since the last post when it had been fixed.

Below is a picture of a cracked roof sensor which is affecting my roof operation. In September 2018, I paid almost £800 to secure a new loom and use its sensors to heat seal onto my failed roof loom. This work done by Hadwin’s in the S Lakes.

Just over two years later, (and out of VW dealer warranty) I am having the same issues, repeated roof bonging while driving, and the roof failing sporadically.

So back to Hadwin’s (160 mile round trip). Again one of the sensors has cracked, as per picture. Apparently water is getting in and swelling the sensors which crack, get damp then fail. How and why this is happening is beyond me at the moment.

This time instead of buying a new loom + £250 I am on the look out for someone with a spare loom that I can cannibalise for a small fee. Or can I source a cheap sensor to do the job of this small piece of kit?

Any thoughts welcome.

Best Christmas wishes all

Paul

View attachment 70935

This thread has saved my day .. I’m going to do the Easter bunny dance for the rest of the afternoon.

 

[Frankyworthy]

This thread has saved my day .. I’m going to do the Easter bunny dance for the rest of the afternoon.

Haha. You have a roof failure?

 

[Frankyworthy]

So update to the update.

My mechanic and I believe the damp ingress affecting the sensors on each side of the van at about half way along the length of it are due to a build up of stuff there. If you look down behind the rim we can see compressed matter (leaves, pine needles etc) which is further compressed by the roof slotting into it.
This over time may retain moisture and prevent rain run off from getting away to the drain holes. It does smell dank and composty and may be the answer.

So, as so often is the case, this is a maintenance matter. I have peaked behind the rim and the hydraulic arms and cleared out the debris. Wiped it, cleaned it, polished it. Rain run off will now run freely and away from the sensors areas and wind action from driving will dry it out.

Thats the theory anyway

 

[Lambeth Cali]

Ok, I'm doing this too now. Roof been great for 12 years but now seems to think its open all the time.
Can I just ask, is 2 sensors correct? not 4 ?

 

[Lambeth Cali]

ok, so probably due to lockdown boredom, I ordered the BMW sensor even although I don't actually have an issue with the roof at the moment. (But I would rather pay £15 now than £100s in a few years)

So comparing it, without removing the sensor from my van, it does appear to be physically the same part, including the wire colours (My van is 2017)

I would strongly suggest this is likely to be electrically the same part, @Frankyworthy please let us know if this works for you. I don't want anyone to waste money on my guess, but if it works it could be a significant cost save. @Loz do you have you any history/knowledge about this issue?

I would splice in to the harness on top of the cylinder, from what could see the harness easy to access at that point and it just taped up, so removing the tape, splicing the new sensor wires in and re-taping, it could look like the factory.

View attachment 74053

View attachment 74054

View attachment 74055


TView attachment 74056

ok, so probably due to lockdown boredom, I ordered the BMW sensor even although I don't actually have an issue with the roof at the moment. (But I would rather pay £15 now than £100s in a few years)

So comparing it, without removing the sensor from my van, it does appear to be physically the same part, including the wire colours (My van is 2017)

I would strongly suggest this is likely to be electrically the same part, @Frankyworthy please let us know if this works for you. I don't want anyone to waste money on my guess, but if it works it could be a significant cost save. @Loz do you have you any history/knowledge about this issue?

I would splice in to the harness on top of the cylinder, from what could see the harness easy to access at that point and it just taped up, so removing the tape, splicing the new sensor wires in and re-taping, it could look like the factory.

View attachment 74053

View attachment 74054

View attachment 74055

View attachment 74056

This is all incredibly helpful. I've ordered the parts off Ebay. I'm planning on doing myself. Does anyone with any electrical knowledge have any other tips or suggestions? Is it safe to do? Do I need to do disconnect battery or fuses first?

 

[vbk1975]

This is all incredibly helpful. I've ordered the parts off Ebay. I'm planning on doing myself. Does anyone with any electrical knowledge have any other tips or suggestions? Is it safe to do? Do I need to do disconnect battery or fuses first?

You need to either remove power from the Roof ECU or disconnect the battery. Note the roof ECU is not the Control Panel. The smart bit of the roof control is the roof ECU and is near the pump under the headlining.

I have wiring diagrams for a T6, but not a T5, so I wouldn't like to guess at the fuses. From memory there is one main fuse and 2nd one that provides the ignition feed.

The tricky bit is joining the sensor wires in to the loom and making it waterproof. Soldering the wires together and then using glue lined heat shrink to waterproof is one option and probably most successful at home.

You can buy glue filled joints, but they are notorious for letting water in as they can get damaged by the crimping process and the glue only seals the ends.

I would try to make join in the loom high up, the sensors are probably already spiced in on top of the rams as they share a power feed, so I would carefully remove bad sensor and chase the wires back removing the tape from the loom carefully.

The other option is to do the prep work and see if an garage or mobile radio fitter etc could do the actual joints if you don't have the kit.

 

[Lambeth Cali]

You need to either remove power from the Roof ECU or disconnect the battery. Note the roof ECU is not the Control Panel. The smart bit of the roof control is the roof ECU and is near the pump under the headlining.

I have wiring diagrams for a T6, but not a T5, so I wouldn't like to guess at the fuses. From memory there is one main fuse and 2nd one that provides the ignition feed.

The tricky bit is joining the sensor wires in to the loom and making it waterproof. Soldering the wires together and then using glue lined heat shrink to waterproof is one option and probably most successful at home.

You can buy glue filled joints, but they are notorious for letting water in as they can get damaged by the crimping process and the glue only seals the ends.

I would try to make join in the loom high up, the sensors are probably already spiced in on top of the rams as they share a power feed, so I would carefully remove bad sensor and chase the wires back removing the tape from the loom carefully.

The other option is to do the prep work and see if an garage or mobile radio fitter etc could do the actual joints if you don't have the kit.

Disconnect which battery? The leisure battery?

 

[vbk1975]

Disconnect which battery? The leisure battery?

So again, I only have T6 circuits (I assume T5 would be the same principle)

The main feed is from the leisure battery(s) and the ignition trigger is from Standard Battery.

If you were being very cautious, i would disconnect all 3 batteries.

 

[Lambeth Cali]

By the way, with the water in the roof problems, I wanted to check, should these holes be open or have a plastic cap?

I think I was assuming they were drain holes but was never certain.

 

[Lambeth Cali]

Does the sensor look like this in detail ?(ignoring the wires/connectors)
View attachment 73878

They look like generic roof switches from TE, (although they no longer appear listed as current parts), but BMW source including fly lead looks great value, assuming they are the same part.

BMW Part 54 34 7 190 735 ~£15 (BMW 1 Series Convertible Part according to Z4 Forum, they have apparently have failed / water damaged sensors on the Z4s as well)

https://www.te.com/commerce/DocumentDelivery/DDEController?Action=showdoc&DocId=Data+Sheet%7FCylinder_Hall_Switch%7FA%7Fpdf%7FEnglish%7FENG_DS_Cylinder_Hall_Switch_A.pdf%7FCAT-ATS0050

So given they are highly likely to be the same part/interface, fingers crossed. It would be a question of splicing into the existing loom, various methods. But using glue filled heat shrink over joint is standard best practice, even if you use a glue filled joint.

This heat shrink is ideal; https://www.hilltop-products.co.uk/...bing/rbk-ils-125/rbk-il1-5s-125-nr0-dspl.html

I meant to say thank you for finding and sharing these.
Reading the original post here, I’m glad I bought another 4 just in case it fails again.

 

[woodjon2]

Hi, I’d like to say thank you too, just done the fix and it works a treat now.
I have only replaced the front two for now and it works great, I was wondering if anyone has done the rear ones without draining the hydraulic fluid as I can’t seem to move the joint on the hydraulic pipe around far enough to remove the sensor, I don’t want to force it.

 

[WelshGas]

Hi, I’d like to say thank you too, just done the fix and it works a treat now.
I have only replaced the front two for now and it works great, I was wondering if anyone has done the rear ones without draining the hydraulic fluid as I can’t seem to move the joint on the hydraulic pipe around far enough to remove the sensor, I don’t want to force it.

@Lambeth Cali managed it.

 

[KGCali]

Hi, I’d like to say thank you too, just done the fix and it works a treat now.
I have only replaced the front two for now and it works great, I was wondering if anyone has done the rear ones without draining the hydraulic fluid as I can’t seem to move the joint on the hydraulic pipe around far enough to remove the sensor, I don’t want to force it.

See Day Two ...
Post in thread 'How to Replace Roof Sensors' https://vwcaliforniaclub.com/threads/how-to-replace-roof-sensors.40430/post-518129

 

[Lee damian]

try kernow campers they fit cali roofs

I previously spoke to kernow campers but it’s not something they will take on.

 

[Lambeth Cali]

Hi, I’d like to say thank you too, just done the fix and it works a treat now.
I have only replaced the front two for now and it works great, I was wondering if anyone has done the rear ones without draining the hydraulic fluid as I can’t seem to move the joint on the hydraulic pipe around far enough to remove the sensor, I don’t want to force it.

Yes the rear pair are more difficult. They both broke getting them out but if you follow my instructions and trim off two of the plastic catches they slide in easily from behind. They are very secure when in place.

Just trim off the bit circled in blue and then slide in from the back. The other catches hold it very securely.

 

[Azteccamper]

It seems the sensors just failed... nothing offered as to why. But at least Carrs Exeter Van Centre offered to defray 50% of the cost of fixing this although I'm heading for 2 years out of warranty. Good guys, I'm pleased to report, and I really can't fault Pete Sowden and his team.

Hi Martin. Did Carr’s complete this fix for you to your satisfaction? I’m having problems with the roof but the sensors actually look fine when checking them - can they look ok but be broken?
I took mine to Sinclair Swansea who said they have never repaired one before but were willing to take my van for the day to investigate at £95 + VAT per hour. So they could take 5 hours at £600 to tell me it’s not working before they start repair! They did say they probably would pass it on to Sinclair Cardiff to repair.
I’m not feeling that confident.