EU Travel advice

[Amarillo]

Disagree. The Leavers have a Plan - Pay monies Due and Leave. Simple really. Just like any Club or Gym Membership.

In that case I erred. I had no idea that there was such unanimity among Leavers. I now look forward to hearing of rapid progress with this plan.

 

[larrylamb]

Can we please keep this on topic re EU travel advice and not Bre- xit. per se.

 

[EddieEagle]

Aw, shucks. This is regurgitating all the old bollox but worth reading nontheless .
Perhaps start another thread such as ‘who wants an argument ‘ and put it to bed there ??

 

[Velma's Dad]

Aw, shucks. This is regurgitating all the old bollox but worth reading nontheless .
Perhaps start another thread such as ‘who wants an argument ‘ and put it to bed there ??

We may as well keep a B-bike thread going, no point playing forum whack-a-rat as it'll keep popping back up anyway for years. That's because B r e x i t is a process, not an event. Not my words, but what a minority of grown-up, sentient cabinet members recognised when they woke up on 24 June 2016 and realised their boss's massive gamble had blown and he'd f****ed off and left them to conjure up something resembling a plan.

No, it's not like resigning from a social club or a gym, for many reasons too tedious to list. But if you feel you have to have a metaphor, there have been plenty to choose from: cakes, cherries, Hotel Californias (no offence to our esteemed forum colleague in Belgium), Theresa's Red White and Blue B-bike whatever in God's name that meant.

Personally if forced to choose any kind of metaphor I'll stick with 'divorce'. Provided you assume that it's one where you can't actually go your separate ways because there's no divorce court that both of you recognise and you can't agree who gets the house or the dog and you haven't even begun to talk about how to bring up the kids, and you'll both remain shareholders in the same family business. And by the way those new partners that you've been wooing have actually been shagging your former spouse and fully intend to continue unless you can promise them a better life.

But not having even got past 29 Mar, we're not even into the second phase yet - the future relationship talks. Broad-scope trade deals are monumentally complex - the Ceta (Canada-EU) deal took seven years. So no Dr. Fox, it turns out it won't be "the easiest in human history".

So don't worry Eddie, plenty of time yet for bollox regurgitation.

 

[EddieEagle]

Oh Dr Cameron.,
Where is the iodine Janet ?

Dip me doodahs ready for more enlightened conversation

 

[Velma's Dad]

Oh Dr Cameron.,
Where is the iodine Janet ?

You're showing your age.

"Oh doctor, doctor, I've a terrible heartburn"
"Och nonsense Janet, and get yer t*t oot ma porridge".

(Sorry, but it made me snigger when I was about 13...)

 

[T6 CFO]

Not really much point in trying to win this argument either way.
Very few of us I doubt were ever 100% either for remain or leave.
Problem was, and we all know why we ended up having to make a binary decision.
Our idiot politicians from all sides voted for this and as a result we have serious problems if we choose to ignore it.
For my part I probably represent the result, my judgement being a narrow decision to leave. I’m probably now nearer to 80-20 to leave and would prefer we just left and then negotiated.
With grown ups on both sides a deal could and should have been struck but in reality this was never going to happen.
Hopefully this shambolic state of affairs will lead to a new party being formed. I’ve listened to hours of debate on this subject and others in the Commons and there are many sensible voices.
We need change.


Mike

 

[Perfectos]

I know exactly what will happen On the 30th March, the sun will come up, we will take another breath and go on living from day to day.

If we are lucky the next generation will sort the almighty impotent mess that is politics today.

the next chapter of the story will begin.

 

[MarkVw2017]

I have watched B-rexit for over two years and reading this thread, @Amarillo and @WelshGas are prime examples why its so hard to come to a conclusion between businesses, gov bodies, eu, uk, scotland, ireland etc. Ones a devote remain, ones a devote leave, but none of them are wrong at all, they are clearly just very passionate about why they want to stay and why one wants to leave, and ironically, both disagree because they both want the best for the UK and its future. However, no one voted for Mays deal as it didnt even exist, and in theory this should have been part of the ref in 2016 as the gov really should have had a plan in place, 1.) PMs deal, 2.) leave or 3.) remain. It looks like were going to go with mays deal, but that seems to upset more people than going either with remain or leave. Let's face it, why on earth would EU give a good deal when a member leaves, if they did, others would follow. It will always be a worse deal than remain, it can never better, thats just basic business. Analogy: If BT gave me unlimited internet for £1 and i got free mobile as well, and then charged everyone else £45, and all other customers knew they only charged me a £1, not many people would want to be with BT or would complain they want the same deal, it would destroy BTs business model. Same principle with EU members and the UK. EU have theirs hands tied,they simply cannot give us a better deal than remaining. UK has decided to leave so now the EU need to concentrate on the other EU members, problem is, UK wants to leave but also wants to stay, hence 2 years of arguements and no where closer to knowing what the UK future looks like with the EU or the world. Sigh. Are MPs too old to go on the naughty mat?

 

[Auberg-ine]

Ever since I entered this forum I got intrigued with the pure censorship of that crucial word that keeps you (us) all awake. At a forum where we should all embrace freedom, boundlessness, foreign communities, broad-mindedness. At a British forum celebrating a German vehicle; makes me think of Fawlty Towers' "don't mention the war'.
I really underestimated the island-ish reflexes here, with all respect.
I agree with MarkVW here above, It's basic business that EU will not put cushions under UK butts. It's also helpful to look for a moment from the other's perspective. At the continent, the UK has always been seen as the 'privileged' member, the cold lover, which explains some cold reactions as well (now please don't start shooting the messenger here.).



The advantage of the mini-size of my own Belgian (and even smaller, Flemish) community is that we can't afford strong borders. Even if we also struggle with them too, of course. Immigration is a world-issue, like most of our real nightmares. It needs macro-scaled government. Therefore it seems to me that the way 'back' (nationalism) is simply contradictory, At the same time I'm a strong defender of regional cultures, as mutual enrichening identities. That's why we got us these campervans, to go out, 'cross-country' and 'burn the boundaries'.
The European structure is far far from ideal. Yet. So, we can use all the help we can get, to solve our real common challenges together, like our rusty roofs...
...
Any EU travel advices around?

 

[WelshGas]

Not quit correct @MarkVw2017 . In Wales we were given a Referendum that gave a majority, a very small majority for a form of governmental independence . It was accepted by the UK Government and so instituted. I accepted the result as it was OUR form of Democracy in action.
On the EU Referendum we were given a similar choice with a larger majority for Leave. The referendum was not carried out on a regional basis or a constituency basis but on an ALL UK basis.
MPs are appointed to carry out the will of the UK population.
The People have spoken, as they did in Wales, and now the MPs should carry out the will of the people, and should ignore their own feelings, their constituency and any other bodies with vested interests and concentrate on fulfilling the wishes of the UK Population.
Whether you agree or not with the terms, the way it was run etc: of the Referendum is a matter for the future, just as proportional representation is a matter for the future. This is the here and now.
ALL MPs should be fully committed to fulfilling the Referendum Result with the best deal that can be negotiated.

 

[WelshGas]

Any EU travel advices around?

Yes, KEEP on TRUCKING.

I'll be passing your way in May on my way to Norway. I'll wave if I see you.

 

[Auberg-ine]

Yes, KEEP on TRUCKING.

I'll be passing your way in May on my way to Norway. I'll wave if I see you.

Great, just don't forget we all drive at the wrong side of the road.
(Seriously, feel free to pop in!)

 

[Amarillo]

Not quit correct @MarkVw2017 . In Wales we were given a Referendum that gave a majority, a very small majority for a form of governmental independence . It was accepted by the UK Government and so instituted. I accepted the result as it was OUR form of Democracy in action.
On the EU Referendum we were given a similar choice with a larger majority for Leave. The referendum was not carried out on a regional basis or a constituency basis but on an ALL UK basis.
MPs are appointed to carry out the will of the UK population.
The People have spoken, as they did in Wales, and now the MPs should carry out the will of the people, and should ignore their own feelings, their constituency and any other bodies with vested interests and concentrate on fulfilling the wishes of the UK Population.
Whether you agree or not with the terms, the way it was run etc: of the Referendum is a matter for the future, just as proportional representation is a matter for the future. This is the here and now.
ALL MPs should be fully committed to fulfilling the Referendum Result with the best deal that can be negotiated.

While broadly correct, you have omitted several small but significant details:
1. the EU referendum was advisory;
2. details of the departure terms were scant;
3. unachievable promises were made;
4. electoral rules, particularly on spending, were ignored.

MPs are fully entitled to consider the above when deciding how to proceed with the referendum result.

I know you believe there is unanimity among leave MPs as to how we should leave the EU. I have seen no evidence of this. MPs are also entitled to consider the wide range of views, especially among their constituents.



Follow my blog: www.au-revoir.eu

 

[mccp]

Ever since I entered this forum I got intrigued with the pure censorship of that crucial word that keeps you (us) all awake.

I think that the censorship only started after the various debates between members became aggressive and personalised, but the participants in the debate on this thread are managing to express their strongly held views without personal attacks. I happen to think that's pretty useful as, whatever the end result, both sides are going to have to come together over the next few months and that won't happen easily if we don't take time to understand both sides of the argument. (Ok, 'next few months' might be wishful thinking...).

 

[Auberg-ine]

Just heard here that my neighbor, the first President of the European Council Herman Van Rompuy (remember Nigel Farage's 'damp rag'?) is asked by May to break the status-quo of the negotiations. At a dinner last night he met the British ambassador here, who later joined your Biking minister together with the EU negotiator Barnier.
Sometimes one needs a good old decent rag to clean up the bleep of bleeps...

 

[Auberg-ine]

I think that the censorship only started after the various debates between members became aggressive and personalised, but the participants in the debate on this thread are managing to express their strongly held views without personal attacks. I happen to think that's pretty useful as, whatever the end result, both sides are going to have to come together over the next few months and that won't happen easily if we don't take time to understand both sides of the argument. (Ok, 'next few months' might be wishful thinking...).

I once compared that bleeping here with Japanese pixelled porn....

 

[Amarillo]

I really underestimated the island-ish reflexes here, with all respect.

It is always interesting to hear about B-exit from another country's perspective. In touring 33 EU and non-EU countries during 2017/2018 we had an awful lot of it. Sadness and bewilderment sum up the feeling pretty well. There were exceptions: a Dutch couple running a campsite in Austria terrified of immigrants changing the character of their home village - irony noted - and a Romanian campsite owner baffled at Britain allowing his countrymen to fly fortnightly into Luton Airport on a bi-weekly pilgrimage to sign on - is this fake news or does it really happen?

There's an interesting article in today's Guardian: "Seven correspondents report on how the UK’s political upheaval has affected its image on the continent".

Link to the article - Un big mess

 

[MarkVw2017]

Not quit correct @MarkVw2017 . In Wales we were given a Referendum that gave a majority, a very small majority for a form of governmental independence . It was accepted by the UK Government and so instituted. I accepted the result as it was OUR form of Democracy in action.
On the EU Referendum we were given a similar choice with a larger majority for Leave. The referendum was not carried out on a regional basis or a constituency basis but on an ALL UK basis.
MPs are appointed to carry out the will of the UK population.
The People have spoken, as they did in Wales, and now the MPs should carry out the will of the people, and should ignore their own feelings, their constituency and any other bodies with vested interests and concentrate on fulfilling the wishes of the UK Population.
Whether you agree or not with the terms, the way it was run etc: of the Referendum is a matter for the future, just as proportional representation is a matter for the future. This is the here and now.
ALL MPs should be fully committed to fulfilling the Referendum Result with the best deal that can be negotiated.

If you have 100 customers in a restaurant with the question "ham or tuna butties" and then 52 people said Ham, would you then just force ham down the 48 faces who wanted tuna even if they absolutely despised ham. I feel you are looking at things very much in black or white, and with such a massive decision, you simply cannot do that as it affects everybody in the UK. Currently with Mays deal however, we are ALL getting served butties with a surprise filling, which wasnt even on the menu! .

 

[PeterE]

On booking ferries post March: I have heard from a Brit who booked a Europe trip for Easter time, they have been warned there's a risk ferries will be requesitioned by the UK government for emergency transport of goods.

 

[jts46]

Purchased the IDP today, at PO in Sherwood, Nottingham, £5.50 + £6.00 for photos. The first one they had issued.
A word of warning as i am over 70yrs, my driving licence expires in September of this year, so does the IDP as only valid for 3yrs or life of driving licence.

 

[Eber123]

Good afternoon,

If you ask 10 people what is the best car, you get 11 different answers. If you as 10 people what is the best camper you get 12 different answers.

The opinion or decision to stay in a union (EU) is a very individual and everything has pros and cons. It seems that unfortunately we live in a time that many listen to a few using easy, uncomplicated language. It might be that we are all a bit tired of a complicated politics (and everything is getting more complicated). Is it not in many countries this way? We feel that we (the normal person on the street) losing control and losing out in comparison to other groups of people.

But even centuries ago people left their homeland to find better places to live (based on this didn't even Homo Erectus came from Africa to Europe? In the 16th or 17th century hundreds of thousands of Hessen moved to America to find a better live. The list is endless).

Is it not understandable that people from other countries wishing to come to Europe to start new? To some extend I can understand this. But is this so easily possible in the year 2019? Has society changed (for people who want to come to Europe and for the people in Europe). Because of this is there a clash of opinions and resentments? If this is, what can be done to improve the situation but give everybody a fair chance?

As Amarillo said, I don't believe also that anybody in Europe in the right mind wishes the UK to leave Europe. UK is an integral part of Europe, has shaped and influence culture, art, society and business etc. Should there be another vote (I know that is a sensitive question)? If we would be able to turn the clock back, would there be the same outcome of the vote in UK? I don't know.

Hopefully there are enough wise politicians on all sides to come to a workable solution.

Regards,
Eberhard

 

[Bellcrew]

Good afternoon,

If you ask 10 people what is the best car, you get 11 different answers. If you as 10 people what is the best camper you get 12 different answers.

The opinion or decision to stay in a union (EU) is a very individual and everything has pros and cons. It seems that unfortunately we live in a time that many listen to a few using easy, uncomplicated language. It might be that we are all a bit tired of a complicated politics (and everything is getting more complicated). Is it not in many countries this way? We feel that we (the normal person on the street) losing control and losing out in comparison to other groups of people.

But even centuries ago people left their homeland to find better places to live (based on this didn't even Homo Erectus came from Africa to Europe? In the 16th or 17th century hundreds of thousands of Hessen moved to America to find a better live. The list is endless).

Is it not understandable that people from other countries wishing to come to Europe to start new? To some extend I can understand this. But is this so easily possible in the year 2019? Has society changed (for people who want to come to Europe and for the people in Europe). Because of this is there a clash of opinions and resentments? If this is, what can be done to improve the situation but give everybody a fair chance?

As Amarillo said, I don't believe also that anybody in Europe in the right mind wishes the UK to leave Europe. UK is an integral part of Europe, has shaped and influence culture, art, society and business etc. Should there be another vote (I know that is a sensitive question)? If we would be able to turn the clock back, would there be the same outcome of the vote in UK? I don't know.

Hopefully there are enough wise politicians on all sides to come to a workable solution.

Regards,
Eberhard

No one is advocating leaving Europe, what exercised a lot (majority) of voters at the referendum was the gradual extension of powers to the EU to make decisions on some crucial laws that the UK would not be able to veto even if it wanted too. A common market on the terms we voted for in 1975 would be completely acceptable to practically everyone, the future advocated by the federalist less so.

 

[Amarillo]

If you have 100 customers in a restaurant with the question "ham or tuna butties" and then 52 people said Ham, would you then just force ham down the 48 faces who wanted tuna even if they absolutely despised ham. I feel you are looking at things very much in black or white, and with such a massive decision, you simply cannot do that as it affects everybody in the UK. Currently with Mays deal however, we are ALL getting served butties with a surprise filling, which wasnt even on the menu! .

Nice analogy. A better analogy would be "cheese or meat butties?" meat winning 52 v 48 then forcing tuna butties on everyone even though it was beef butties or chicken butties or ham butties that 50/52 meat voters thought they were voting for.

 

[Digger]

The hidden agenda of a Federal State of Europe has caused much conflict. My German mates are as much against it as I am. My gripe is where have the decent politicians gone. It would be nice to have someone we could trust to tell us the honest truth. Bring back the Common Market body and closer relations without the bonding ties of the EC. Now bowing out.