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EU Travel advice

Discussion in 'General Chit Chat' started by Azteccamper, Feb 10, 2019.

  1. MarkVw2017
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    MarkVw2017 VIP Member

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    Deal, no deal, mays deal, 2nd referendum, soft brexi t, hard brexi t or remain. Whatever option is taken, its such a shame there's still going to be millions of people who are going to feel let down. Peolle all really split in so many directions. This has unfortunately become a no win situation whatever happens. Whether you voted to remain or leave, i think we can all agree, parliament as a whole have made a right dogs dinner of this.
     
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  2. T6 CFO
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    T6 CFO Mike Top Poster VIP Member

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    I believe the 39 billion consists of:-

    1. The UK’s contribution to EU annual budgets up to 2020;
    2. Payment of outstanding commitments; and
    2. Financing liabilities up to the end of 2020.

    So I imagine a no deal leaves us paying 2 and binning 1-3.

    Mike
     
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  3. soulstyledevon
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    soulstyledevon VIP Member

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    Absolutely. The government have made a right dogs dinner of the situation.
    But let's not forget the EU have been nothing, but obstructive through the entire process.

    I am perhaps in the minority. But i would rather see a no deal boris bike.
    We voted to leave.
    We didn't vote for this deal and that...?
    We must break away completely and start the hard work on setting out, our own rules and regulations and forging new ties with Europe and the rest of the world. ASAP
    Politicians and Remainers should feel ashamed at the way they have tried to stop/change and hinder the democratic wish of the British people.

    Going back, it was an error not to have the vote at a two thirds majority, especially on a subject that was extremely decisive and which affects so many people.

    But we must move on and forward and we need to do it immediately...
     
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  4. Amarillo
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    Amarillo Tom Top Poster VIP Member

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    That really is an extraordinary thing to say.

    The problem all along has been a split in the outcome desired by leavers. Had they been united with a clear plan of how to achieve our departure for the EU, this matter would have been done and dusted by now. To blame those who fundamentally disagree with the decision to leave for the disarray of leavers is absurd. Also note that a remainer is the one who has been left to negotiate a plan for leavers. Two of the three most prominent leavers (Boris Johnson and David Davis) have abandoned the government and EU negotiations, heckling from the sidelines instead. Along with Liam Fox, they were given senior cabinet positions and a country estate (Chevening) to share and plan our exit from the EU. They failed leavers miserably. Your misplaced anger should be directed at them.

    Is it wrong for people to campaign for electoral reform because the 2011 alternative vote referendum was lost? Of course it is not wrong.

    Where do we go from here? Unite supporters of May's Deal and remainers in a parliamentary bill accepting May's Deal on the condition that it is ratified by another referendum. Leavers have failed, let others move on. As Donald Tusk might say, Boris Johnson and David Davis can go to Hell.
     
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  5. WelshGas
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    WelshGas Retired after 42 yrs and enjoying Life. Top Poster VIP Member Lifetime VIP Member

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    Disagree. The Leavers have a Plan - Pay monies Due and Leave. Simple really. Just like any Club or Gym Membership.
    We wish to continue trading with them and so all goods/services would have to fulfil their standards just as they wish to trade with us and would have to abide by our standards. In the short term those standards would be equivalent on both sides. Only in the future would those standards drift apart - maybe.
    No different to Japan trading with the EU. All Japanese goods, so traded, must abide by EU standards and EU goods to Japan by Japanese Standards.
    All present EU Laws/standards/workers rights transferred into UK Law and only in the future might they change depending on Parliaments view. They might not.
    Other Pan-European Agencies could go the same way.
    I really think people are over-thinking the whole scenario and doing that for purely personal and Party reasons without taking heed of the Referendum result.
    I voted back in the 70's to join the Common Market. If successive governments and the Brussels clique had not lied to the people over the past 50 odd years regarding their Fedralistic plans then we wouldn't be in this position.
    Greece is failing, Italy following suit and arguing with France, France battling with its own people, Spain failing, the Eastern states objecting to EU Immigration Policies, the rise of Freedom parties in numerous EU member states. None of this would have happened if the original golds of a Common Market had been kept and adhered to.
     
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  6. Amarillo
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    Amarillo Tom Top Poster VIP Member

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    In that case I erred. I had no idea that there was such unanimity among Leavers. I now look forward to hearing of rapid progress with this plan.
     
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  7. larrylamb
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    larrylamb Califandango Top Poster VIP Member

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    Can we please keep this on topic re EU travel advice and not Bre- xit. per se.
     
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  8. EddieEagle
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    EddieEagle VIP Member

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    Aw, shucks. This is regurgitating all the old bollox but worth reading nontheless .
    Perhaps start another thread such as ‘who wants an argument ‘ and put it to bed there ??
    :cheers
     
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  9. Velma's Dad
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    Velma's Dad VIP Member

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    We may as well keep a B-bike thread going, no point playing forum whack-a-rat as it'll keep popping back up anyway for years. That's because B r e x i t is a process, not an event. Not my words, but what a minority of grown-up, sentient cabinet members recognised when they woke up on 24 June 2016 and realised their boss's massive gamble had blown and he'd f****ed off and left them to conjure up something resembling a plan.

    No, it's not like resigning from a social club or a gym, for many reasons too tedious to list. But if you feel you have to have a metaphor, there have been plenty to choose from: cakes, cherries, Hotel Californias (no offence to our esteemed forum colleague in Belgium), Theresa's Red White and Blue B-bike whatever in God's name that meant.

    Personally if forced to choose any kind of metaphor I'll stick with 'divorce'. Provided you assume that it's one where you can't actually go your separate ways because there's no divorce court that both of you recognise and you can't agree who gets the house or the dog and you haven't even begun to talk about how to bring up the kids, and you'll both remain shareholders in the same family business. And by the way those new partners that you've been wooing have actually been shagging your former spouse and fully intend to continue unless you can promise them a better life.

    But not having even got past 29 Mar, we're not even into the second phase yet - the future relationship talks. Broad-scope trade deals are monumentally complex - the Ceta (Canada-EU) deal took seven years. So no Dr. Fox, it turns out it won't be "the easiest in human history".

    So don't worry Eddie, plenty of time yet for bollox regurgitation. ;)
     
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  10. EddieEagle
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    EddieEagle VIP Member

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    Oh Dr Cameron.,
    Where is the iodine Janet ?

    Dip me doodahs ready for more enlightened conversation
    :cheers
     
  11. Velma's Dad
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    Velma's Dad VIP Member

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    You're showing your age.

    "Oh doctor, doctor, I've a terrible heartburn"
    "Och nonsense Janet, and get yer t*t oot ma porridge".

    (Sorry, but it made me snigger when I was about 13...)
     
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  12. T6 CFO
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    T6 CFO Mike Top Poster VIP Member

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    Not really much point in trying to win this argument either way.
    Very few of us I doubt were ever 100% either for remain or leave.
    Problem was, and we all know why we ended up having to make a binary decision.
    Our idiot politicians from all sides voted for this and as a result we have serious problems if we choose to ignore it.
    For my part I probably represent the result, my judgement being a narrow decision to leave. I’m probably now nearer to 80-20 to leave and would prefer we just left and then negotiated.
    With grown ups on both sides a deal could and should have been struck but in reality this was never going to happen.
    Hopefully this shambolic state of affairs will lead to a new party being formed. I’ve listened to hours of debate on this subject and others in the Commons and there are many sensible voices.
    We need change.


    Mike
     
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  13. Perfectos
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    Perfectos VIP Member

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    I know exactly what will happen On the 30th March, the sun will come up, we will take another breath and go on living from day to day.

    If we are lucky the next generation will sort the almighty impotent mess that is politics today.

    the next chapter of the story will begin.
     
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  14. MarkVw2017
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    MarkVw2017 VIP Member

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    I have watched B-rexit for over two years and reading this thread, @Amarillo and @WelshGas are prime examples why its so hard to come to a conclusion between businesses, gov bodies, eu, uk, scotland, ireland etc. Ones a devote remain, ones a devote leave, but none of them are wrong at all, they are clearly just very passionate about why they want to stay and why one wants to leave, and ironically, both disagree because they both want the best for the UK and its future. However, no one voted for Mays deal as it didnt even exist, and in theory this should have been part of the ref in 2016 as the gov really should have had a plan in place, 1.) PMs deal, 2.) leave or 3.) remain. It looks like were going to go with mays deal, but that seems to upset more people than going either with remain or leave. Let's face it, why on earth would EU give a good deal when a member leaves, if they did, others would follow. It will always be a worse deal than remain, it can never better, thats just basic business. Analogy: If BT gave me unlimited internet for £1 and i got free mobile as well, and then charged everyone else £45, and all other customers knew they only charged me a £1, not many people would want to be with BT or would complain they want the same deal, it would destroy BTs business model. Same principle with EU members and the UK. EU have theirs hands tied,they simply cannot give us a better deal than remaining. UK has decided to leave so now the EU need to concentrate on the other EU members, problem is, UK wants to leave but also wants to stay, hence 2 years of arguements and no where closer to knowing what the UK future looks like with the EU or the world. Sigh. Are MPs too old to go on the naughty mat?
     
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  15. Auberg-ine
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    Auberg-ine Is it an office? Is it a lounge? Is it a camper? VIP Member

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    Ever since I entered this forum I got intrigued with the pure censorship of that crucial word that keeps you (us) all awake. At a forum where we should all embrace freedom, boundlessness, foreign communities, broad-mindedness. At a British forum celebrating a German vehicle; makes me think of Fawlty Towers' "don't mention the war'.
    I really underestimated the island-ish reflexes here, with all respect.
    I agree with MarkVW here above, It's basic business that EU will not put cushions under UK butts. It's also helpful to look for a moment from the other's perspective. At the continent, the UK has always been seen as the 'privileged' member, the cold lover, which explains some cold reactions as well (now please don't start shooting the messenger here.:talktothehand).

    EU-Britten.jpg d323bd170e2cc383b29ab2ee90af6cf0.png 1fb5b532c3cba8f5117f6fedeac2d81c.jpg

    The advantage of the mini-size of my own Belgian (and even smaller, Flemish) community is that we can't afford strong borders. Even if we also struggle with them too, of course. Immigration is a world-issue, like most of our real nightmares. It needs macro-scaled government. Therefore it seems to me that the way 'back' (nationalism) is simply contradictory, At the same time I'm a strong defender of regional cultures, as mutual enrichening identities. That's why we got us these campervans, to go out, 'cross-country' and 'burn the boundaries'.
    The European structure is far far from ideal. Yet. So, we can use all the help we can get, to solve our real common challenges together, like our rusty roofs...
    ...
    Any EU travel advices around?
    ;)
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2019
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  16. WelshGas
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    WelshGas Retired after 42 yrs and enjoying Life. Top Poster VIP Member Lifetime VIP Member

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    Not quit correct @MarkVw2017 . In Wales we were given a Referendum that gave a majority, a very small majority for a form of governmental independence . It was accepted by the UK Government and so instituted. I accepted the result as it was OUR form of Democracy in action.
    On the EU Referendum we were given a similar choice with a larger majority for Leave. The referendum was not carried out on a regional basis or a constituency basis but on an ALL UK basis.
    MPs are appointed to carry out the will of the UK population.
    The People have spoken, as they did in Wales, and now the MPs should carry out the will of the people, and should ignore their own feelings, their constituency and any other bodies with vested interests and concentrate on fulfilling the wishes of the UK Population.
    Whether you agree or not with the terms, the way it was run etc: of the Referendum is a matter for the future, just as proportional representation is a matter for the future. This is the here and now.
    ALL MPs should be fully committed to fulfilling the Referendum Result with the best deal that can be negotiated.
     
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  17. WelshGas
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    WelshGas Retired after 42 yrs and enjoying Life. Top Poster VIP Member Lifetime VIP Member

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    Yes, KEEP on TRUCKING.

    I'll be passing your way in May on my way to Norway. I'll wave if I see you.:thumb
     
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  18. Auberg-ine
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    Auberg-ine Is it an office? Is it a lounge? Is it a camper? VIP Member

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    Great, just don't forget we all drive at the wrong side of the road. :D
    (Seriously, feel free to pop in!)
     
  19. Amarillo
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    Amarillo Tom Top Poster VIP Member

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    While broadly correct, you have omitted several small but significant details:
    1. the EU referendum was advisory;
    2. details of the departure terms were scant;
    3. unachievable promises were made;
    4. electoral rules, particularly on spending, were ignored.

    MPs are fully entitled to consider the above when deciding how to proceed with the referendum result.

    I know you believe there is unanimity among leave MPs as to how we should leave the EU. I have seen no evidence of this. MPs are also entitled to consider the wide range of views, especially among their constituents.



    Follow my blog: www.au-revoir.eu
     
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  20. mccp
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    mccp VIP Member

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    I think that the censorship only started after the various debates between members became aggressive and personalised, but the participants in the debate on this thread are managing to express their strongly held views without personal attacks. I happen to think that's pretty useful as, whatever the end result, both sides are going to have to come together over the next few months and that won't happen easily if we don't take time to understand both sides of the argument. (Ok, 'next few months' might be wishful thinking...).
     
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