Help to identify my Westfalia California model

[sidepod]

One thing to bear in mind is that these things often sat around for a while before selling. My van was listed as a 2000 model, which was when it was first registered on the road. As it was, it was quite clearly built in 98 as a Joker. This could quite easily be an early model van that has sat around until 98 until being first registered.

Sidepod has cleared up the mystery for me about the rear window, I hadn't realised it was a metal panel on earlier models. So you can discard my earlier musings on that.

As for the parking heater, the intake is on the side of the van immediately behind the drivers seat. The outflow is the two black vents you see on the floor between the cab and living area. These black vents also have a supplementary blower under the van that provides hot air from the vans main heating system when thats running.

Not quite on the vents.

The black vent on the right is fed from a heat exchanger under the van. This takes engine cooling water and produces warm air for the rear of the cabin. Not useable when the engine is stopped.

The black vent on the left (missing) is the hot air feed from the parking heater.
The air intake for the parking heater is in the B pillar below the fuse panel.

 

[sidepod]

So this van is a US import. Makes sense given the "super-size" front bumper.

The van is probably ok.

Is it petrol? Is it auto?

It doesn't appear to have the parking heater.
This is a deal breaker for me.

These vans aren't exactly rare so I'd hold out for one with heating.
Don't let anyone try to tell you a small electric radiator will suffice.

Good luck.

 

[Alibee]

I'd agree, looks like a US import. At £11.5k the lack of parking heater would be a deal-breaker for me. You have to allow at least £1k for a professionally installed heater.

I'd also be wary of mileage, and I'd definitely want to both get underneath for a good check and have a mechanic look at the engine. If the mileage is real then she should purr like a kitten, not rattle like a 500k mile taxi, as the injector pump should be in near-perfect condition.

That said, if it's clean underneath, and the engine is good, and the dealer drops £1k for the missing heater then it's probably a very tidy van (assuming you wanted both petrol & auto) to have your adventures in.

Good luck!

 

[sidepod]

Agree. These vans are gems but acquired taste in UK due to left hand drive. Expensive in Europe but cheap here. £7-8k is all you need to spend if you're careful.

(Note to self. Take your own advice)

 

[Chriswoody]

Not quite on the vents.

The black vent on the right is fed from a heat exchanger under the van. This takes engine cooling water and produces warm air for the rear of the cabin. Not useable when the engine is stopped.

The black vent on the left (missing) is the hot air feed from the parking heater.
The air intake for the parking heater is in the B pillar below the fuse panel.

Makes sense, that would explain why the van in the pictures has only the one vent. Never thought to check my van that closely to see how it was working.

Apologies for the Duff intel on that.

I'd definitely echo the sentiments on the parking heater. They are a fantastic bit of kit and I've used mine a lot this winter. Brilliant for those days when you forgot to put the cover on the windscreen and it's frosted over. Pop the parking heater on for half an hour, not only is the van toasty when you come to drive it, but the windscreen is defrosted as well.

 

[TwentyOneThirtyFive]

Hi, how is everyone?

Interior and body does does look early for a van registered as a 1998 (facelift was '97?). However, Westfalia took their time converting vans (8 months from VW manufacture to first registration in Germany for mine), plus export time. It's not unusual for imported vehicles to be registered wtih the wrong age, my HiAce is registered as a '95 but it's not a '95 model (only about a year out though). VIN should give you the info, as previously described.

Regarding the flap - Looks like there is an LPG tank for the cooker, which is common on North American vans. The flap will probably be a BBQ gas point. Certainly not a standard European Westy feature, but I know that was popular on the older T3 based US Westies.

hth,
dan

ps Pod - new van looks cracking!

 

[Hotel California]

Great to get a visit from you Dan!

Afther all i spotted some tips , the strange bumper and the (LPG) tank filler.

 

[TwentyOneThirtyFive]

Don't worry HC, I pop in from time to time to keep an eye on you all

I had a couple of thoughts. I remember someone telling me once that Canadian vans (also big bumper like this) were imported via Japan, not direct from Europe.

The other thought I had (can you tell that I am having a busy morning?) was that retrofitting an eberspacher D2 is not that hard. You can get a T4 specific underslung housing of ebay. You'd need the floor vent and air intake vent from VW, if they are still available, plus some hoses. I upgraded my (non-working) D2L to a D2 fairly easily. Big improvement in heat and noise as well, not that the old heater was bad in anyway when it worked.

However...having that LPG tank (at least I think that is what it is) might make that a little harder. Hard to know without getting under the van.

dan

 

[sidepod]

It must be like in Batman when commissioner Gordon switches on the light with the bat image in the sky.

Welcome back Dan. Quality Intel as ever.

 

[Lloydfred]

So this van is a US import. Makes sense given the "super-size" front bumper.

The van is probably ok.

Is it petrol? Is it auto?

It doesn't appear to have the parking heater.
This is a deal breaker for me.

These vans aren't exactly rare so I'd hold out for one with heating.
Don't let anyone try to tell you a small electric radiator will suffice.

Good luck.

Ive done a lot of detailed research into the early hours of this morning. The van is definitely a circa 1995 Westfelia Coach. the provision of a parking heater was an extra for the Coach in 1995. I can only think this was due to the van being exported to the US and frankly not required in the US climate.

I appreciate that their are many T4's available but this one is the 2.5 petrol auto. The low millage for its year has been confirmed as genuine and quite possibly the lowest millage van for sale in the country?. I do however understand that this will be a bit of a thirsty beast, but in reality she will go to France twice a year and a few long weekends in the South East.

Ive looked at a lot of tatty vans at circa £6,000 - ranging to £18,000 for a late dealer van with 111,000 on the clock. This van is mint inside and out with no rust and only minor blemishes on the paint work. The HPI also shows that the van although lacking in use has been regularly MOT'd and I assume serviced as it has a stack of paperwork attached. (I'll go through it at the viewing this weekend).

On face value the van looks like a decent unit and a sensable first purchase for me. However I was wondering if the parking heater can be retro fitted into the van?. I'm also interested to know what the extra flap / cover is behind the kitchen on the outside. It looks like its been retro fitted by the last owner, Maybe a fresh water inlet from the mains like the Whale unit on a tow-along caravan?

I've really enjoyed this thread, I've learned alot in a short space of time from you all and I thank you all for your input.

Lloydfred

 

[Lloydfred]

Hi, how is everyone?

Interior and body does does look early for a van registered as a 1998 (facelift was '97?). However, Westfalia took their time converting vans (8 months from VW manufacture to first registration in Germany for mine), plus export time. It's not unusual for imported vehicles to be registered wtih the wrong age, my HiAce is registered as a '95 but it's not a '95 model (only about a year out though). VIN should give you the info, as previously described.

Regarding the flap - Looks like there is an LPG tank for the cooker, which is common on North American vans. The flap will probably be a BBQ gas point. Certainly not a standard European Westy feature, but I know that was popular on the older T3 based US Westies.

hth,
dan

ps Pod - new van looks cracking!

The spec list shows that you could upgrade to a gas cooker and if selected a gas tank would be located in the cupboard under the cooker. Maybe that flap has something to do with that, as it looks to be in the correct location to re-fill the tank?

 

[Alibee]

I spoke to Kreuger in New Milton about replacing my T4's Eberspacher D2L but never went ahead with it as it turned out mine was working fine when the battery had sufficient charge to get it running.

The full list of dealers is here:

http://www.eberspacher.com/dealers/dealer-listings/heating-dealers.html

I dare say you'll need to visit one of them with the van to get a definitive answer. As above, availability of older parts for the ducting would be beneficial but they will almost always find a way to get the hot air in there somehow if you can't get hold of them!

If it's a clean van, and your heart is set on it, then there's little that's going to dissuade you. I sold my T4 for £8.5k but it had 270k km on the clock and bubbling rust on the wheel arches. This sounds like it has lived somewhere hot & dry, and it has whole lot less miles on it, so things should be better on that front.

And please ignore my earlier comment on the diesel injector pump, I'd forgotten it was a petrol van we were talking about! Age....

 

[TwentyOneThirtyFive]

The spec list shows that you could upgrade to a gas cooker and if selected a gas tank would be located in the cupboard under the cooker. Maybe that flap has something to do with that, as it looks to be in the correct location to re-fill the tank?

I don't think so. On the early T4 Westies, the gas cooker option used a normal (camping gaz or calor) type cylinder that was stored in the cupboard under the cooker. These cylinders are not user refillable, you simply swap them at a shop that stocks them.

If you look at the second picture you posted, you can see something under the van's sill - looks like valves for an external LPG tank to me. This isn't a bad thing, certainly something I've seen on lots of T3s, but I think I've only ever seen one T4 with it.

It's location would likely interfer with where the standard VW parking heater fits though.

dan

 

[larrylamb]

A couple of points,

If the van was originally destined for the US would it not have MPH clocks fitted instead?
As Alibee states if your heart is set on it you will see past certain issues, but for me petrol auto will not be top of everyones list if you come to sell also the lack of heater. Overall it seems a tad expensive imo. Others will come along.

 

[Lloydfred]

I spoke to Kreuger in New Milton about replacing my T4's Eberspacher D2L but never went ahead with it as it turned out mine was working fine when the battery had sufficient charge to get it running.

The full list of dealers is here:

http://www.eberspacher.com/dealers/dealer-listings/heating-dealers.html

I dare say you'll need to visit one of them with the van to get a definitive answer. As above, availability of older parts for the ducting would be beneficial but they will almost always find a way to get the hot air in there somehow if you can't get hold of them!

If it's a clean van, and your heart is set on it, then there's little that's going to dissuade you. I sold my T4 for £8.5k but it had 270k km on the clock and bubbling rust on the wheel arches. This sounds like it has lived somewhere hot & dry, and it has whole lot less miles on it, so things should be better on that front.

And please ignore my earlier comment on the diesel injector pump, I'd forgotten it was a petrol van we were talking about! Age....

No thanks for your input, every comment I received gave me lots of research material and the basis to look further into the detail of the van.

I totally agree that on the face of it the van looks like a porker. But it really does look like that allusive mint well looked after barn find that everyone is looking for. The risk for me is that not being used some damage may have occurred. I've been looking for a while and every van I view seems to have some form of trade off. From shabby outside condition to great rust free paintwork, but the interior looks like chickens have lived in it.

I've found maybe two vans that look in all round great condition but have millage of between 170K - 250K so this van with unbelievable millage and lived in the states rust free on paper is the van to go for.

 

[Lloydfred]

I don't think so. On the early T4 Westies, the gas cooker option used a normal (camping gaz or calor) type cylinder that was stored in the cupboard under the cooker. These cylinders are not user refillable, you simply swap them at a shop that stocks them.

If you look at the second picture you posted, you can see something under the van's sill - looks like valves for an external LPG tank to me. This isn't a bad thing, certainly something I've seen on lots of T3s, but I think I've only ever seen one T4 with it.

It's location would likely interfer with where the standard VW parking heater fits though.

dan

This is from the Westfelia info site

Kitchen

The kitchen cupboard is opposite the sliding door with a sink / cooker combination with an adjustable cover, cutlery drawer and storage for tableware and provisions.

Spirit cooker with two burners (performance with strong flame approx 1100W, consumption at rated power approx 0.27 litre / hour).

Option to have gas cooker at extra cost.
If gas cooker option is chosen then the gas cylinder is located in the cupboard underneath.

 

[Lloydfred]

I put a

A couple of points,

If the van was originally destined for the US would it not have MPH clocks fitted instead?
As Alibee states if your heart is set on it you will see past certain issues, but for me petrol auto will not be top of everyones list if you come to sell also the lack of heater. Overall it seems a tad expensive imo. Others will come along.

I put a £500 non refundable deposit on it.

 

[TwentyOneThirtyFive]

That's interesting. All the Westie's I've seen with gas had a normal cylinder there. Maybe that is the refill port then. Would be great if that is the case, as the area for the heater will be free.

 

[TwentyOneThirtyFive]

I see you've paid a deposit. Happy days ahead

Here's the diagram of the bits for a heater installation. If they are not available, I'd be tempted to remove the rear heater and replace that wtih an Eber, using the vent in the doorstep as the inlet and the standard rear heater outlet.

http://volkswagen.7zap.com/en/rdw/transporter/tr/1994-117/2/261-261025/

I used something like this to hold the D2 (they are splashproof, but not waterproof), although it was designed specifically for the T4 and attached to the chasis rails. I can't find a link to it at the moment.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Webasto-Eberspacher-External-mounting-box-Stainless-Steel-60mm/302134472203?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid=222007&algo=SIC.MBE&ao=2&asc=41397&meid=d5e86f1e29944f0a8dda05b92d984aae&pid=100005&rk=6&rkt=6&sd=121559076599

Or, if you can pick up an older D3LP(?), this would give a cleaner installation.

http://volkswagen.7zap.com/en/rdw/transporter/tr/1998-220/2/261-261032/

http://volkswagen.7zap.com/en/rdw/transporter/tr/1998-220/2/261-261030/

I'm curious about the gas installation, so can you stick some photos up once you get the van?

ta,
dan

 

[Alibee]

I totally agree that on the face of it the van looks like a porker.

Far from it, it looks a lot tidier than mine did when I bought it!

The risk for me is that not being used some damage may have occurred.

It's a commercial vehicle, and they can take a huge beating. If you can't see any obvious damage (including underneath) then the big potential costs tend to be under the bonnet. You'll need a good mechanic to tell you if anything's up in the engine / gearbox department, but there will be very few in the country that know much about petrol T4s.

The rest I'm afraid falls squarely under caveat emptor. Take a long test drive, including some 70mph runs and some stuck-in-traffic time. Leave it running for 15 mins when you get back and check what leaks thereafter... etc, etc. Sorry, preaching to the converted!

... but the interior looks like chickens have lived in it.

Or they had young children.....

 

[Lloydfred]

I see you've paid a deposit. Happy days ahead

Here's the diagram of the bits for a heater installation. If they are not available, I'd be tempted to remove the rear heater and replace that wtih an Eber, using the vent in the doorstep as the inlet and the standard rear heater outlet.

http://volkswagen.7zap.com/en/rdw/transporter/tr/1994-117/2/261-261025/

I used something like this to hold the D2 (they are splashproof, but not waterproof), although it was designed specifically for the T4 and attached to the chasis rails. I can't find a link to it at the moment.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Webasto-Eberspacher-External-mounting-box-Stainless-Steel-60mm/302134472203?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid=222007&algo=SIC.MBE&ao=2&asc=41397&meid=d5e86f1e29944f0a8dda05b92d984aae&pid=100005&rk=6&rkt=6&sd=121559076599

Or, if you can pick up an older D3LP(?), this would give a cleaner installation.

http://volkswagen.7zap.com/en/rdw/transporter/tr/1998-220/2/261-261032/

http://volkswagen.7zap.com/en/rdw/transporter/tr/1998-220/2/261-261030/

I'm curious about the gas installation, so can you stick some photos up once you get the van?

ta,
dan

Thanks Dan very helpful

 

[sidepod]

That's interesting. All the Westie's I've seen with gas had a normal cylinder there. Maybe that is the refill port then. Would be great if that is the case, as the area for the heater will be free.

Dan what you're looking at there in the cupboard is simply the air tight container for the 907/914 bottle. The top twists off and the bottle sits inside.

 

[sidepod]

My first van (still have it) had 360k kms on the clock and still goes like a train without using oil.

These 5 pot engines are bulletproof in diesel form. I can't vouch for petrol longevity. The point being, mileage is largely irrelevant.

 

[TwentyOneThirtyFive]

Dan what you're looking at there in the cupboard is simply the air tight container for the 907/914 bottle. The top twists off and the bottle sits inside.

Cool, not seen anything like that before. Guessing people remove them to fit larger calor type cylinders.

 

[bxl_lad]

I tried to clean up the image of the rear door - Closest I can read is 'EuroVan CV' (not 'California').
A quick google on 'Eurovan CV' you do indeed find some US Vans looking very much like this one (strange flaps, extended front bumper and all...)
for example:
http://smclassiccars.com/volkswagen...eurovan-cv-standard-cargo-van-3-door-25l.html
http://driverscarandtruck.com/ads/1994-volkswagen-eurovan-cv-camper--salmon+arm,-british+columbia/#
So i think its safe to say its a North America import... (The red one is from Canada - could explain the 'km' and not miles...)

Looking at how much they're asking for the red one (30k Canadian Dollars! = £18k), it would be worth buy the one in the UK, shipping it back to Canada and selling it there!