Highway Code Changes

[GrannyJen]

I agree about the high speed rail but spending yet more millions on a cycling infrastructure that cyclists are not obliged to use?

Speaking as a "born-again cyclist", I would think that the vast majority of cyclists would jump at the chance to be segregated from traffic.

The infrastructure in this country is desperately bad. Even where we have segregated cycle ways they are often not fit for purpose. My local one along the A27 dual carriageway is used for fly-tipping mostly and is never clear. Many are overgrown and hazardous to use. The accident I had last year was due to a cycleway being overgrown and having to leave it in places and join a busy road. The detritus from traffic is rarely cleared and broken glass, bits of rubble, broken bits of cars etc make many hazardous for both rider and bike.

I have been unpleasantly shocked by the venom many drivers, and pedestrians, have for cyclists and, whilst I will say actions by a few have antagonised many, the lack of segregation is also a prime cause of that angst.

 

[WelshGas]

Speaking as a "born-again cyclist", I would think that the vast majority of cyclists would jump at the chance to be segregated from traffic.

The infrastructure in this country is desperately bad. Even where we have segregated cycle ways they are often not fit for purpose. My local one along the A27 dual carriageway is used for fly-tipping mostly and is never clear. Many are overgrown and hazardous to use. The accident I had last year was due to a cycleway being overgrown and having to leave it in places and join a busy road. The detritus from traffic is rarely cleared and broken glass, bits of rubble, broken bits of cars etc make many hazardous for both rider and bike.

I have been unpleasantly shocked by the venom many drivers, and pedestrians, have for cyclists and, whilst I will say actions by a few have antagonised many, the lack of segregation is also a prime cause of that angst.

We have a local road called the 5 mile lane, very well used but very windy. It was replaced by a new road, very straight and more suited to the increased traffic to the local airport.
Old road was retained and turned into a dedicated cycle track.
Is it used by the " lycia " brigade.? No, because they cannot cycle so fast as there are too many bends but no cars or pedestrians.
So now there are calls to have the new road for motorised vehicles only.
One suggestion was a bike grid, like a cattle grid but with the metal bars in the direction of travel to force cyclists to use the dedicated cycle way.

Why was the cycleway overgrown? Obviously not heavily used by cyclists I presume.

 

[Amarillo]

I agree about the high speed rail but spending yet more millions on a cycling infrastructure that cyclists are not obliged to use?

Billions has been spent on motorways, yet motorists are not obliged to use them. I have no problem with a tiny fraction of that being spent on cycleways or upgrading bridleways to encourage some people out of their cars and onto their bikes.

 

[GrannyJen]

We have a local road called the 5 mile lane, very well used but very windy. It was replaced by a new road, very straight and more suited to the increased traffic to the local airport.
Old road was retained and turned into a dedicated cycle track.
Is it used by the " lycia " brigade.? No, because they cannot cycle so fast as there are too many bends but no cars or pedestrians.
So now there are calls to have the new road for motorised vehicles only.
One suggestion was a bike grid, like a cattle grid but with the metal bars in the direction of travel to force cyclists to use the dedicated cycle way.

Why was the cycleway overgrown? Obviously not heavily used by cyclists I presume.

Hedging mostly, trees, low branches, that sort of thing. A lot like it this time of year. one local to me is cut back regularly by volunteers.

Goodness, I would cycle miles for something traffic free. Sadly a lot of the ranting against cyclists that is so prevalent on social media is a self-inflicted wound. I don't know how you can police bad riding. As you say, no identifier.

 

[Amarillo]

How do you suggest the irresponsible members of society be taken to task.
Combined cycle/pedestrian pathway, clearly marked with icons and central white line but large groups of pedestrians walking abreast across both sections with dogs on long leads or no leads obstructing the cycle way. Cyclists exceeding the posted speed limit. Pedestrians stepping out between parked cars glued to their phones.
Cyclists crossing red lights or riding wrong way on One way streets.
These people take no responsibility for their actions depending on others to keep them safe.
At least the vehicle driver who exceeds the speed limit or overtakes in an unsafe manner can be identified and brought to task.

It seems that vehicle drivers are expected to take responsibility for their own actions + the irresponsible actions of these individuals as well especially as they cannot be identified.

We are now in a society where the responsible individuals are subject to increasing supervision and legal measures to protect the idiots in society.
Darwin definitely had a point.

Cycleways are commonly misunderstood. They can be used by cyclists and also by pedestrians. Even those which suggest cyclists one side and pedestrians the other side, pedestrians are free to use the cyclists’ side. That being the case, if someone is walking with or without a dog on a fixed or retractable lead, the cyclist should respect the pedestrian’s right to use the cycleway.

I wish people who rant about cyclists being unidentifiable thought about it before posting. They are as identifiable as any individual.

Switzerland had a very successful “velovignette” compulsory bike registration scheme which included third party insurance. This ran from 1893 to 2011 when the scheme stopped being compulsory, and the reason for the scheme’s demise: it was a waste of time.

Read more here:

Fahrradkennzeichen – Wikipedia

de.m.wikipedia.org

The simple fact is that cyclists and pedestrians rarely cause significant harm to others. So even if riding the wrong way up a one way street, cycling without lights at night, or riding on the pavement the person they put most at risk is themselves.

 

[GrannyJen]

Cycleways are commonly misunderstood. They can be used by cyclists and also by pedestrians. Even those which suggest cyclists one side and pedestrians the other side, pedestrians are free to use the cyclists’ side. That being the case, if someone is walking with or without a dog on a fixed or retractable lead, the cyclist should respect the pedestrian’s right to use the cycleway.

I wish people who rant about cyclists being unidentifiable thought about it before posting. They are as identifiable as any individual.

Switzerland had a very successful “velovignette” compulsory bike registration scheme which included third party insurance. This ran from 1893 to 2011 when the scheme stopped being compulsory, and the reason for the scheme’s demise: it was a waste of time.

Read more here:

Fahrradkennzeichen – Wikipedia

de.m.wikipedia.org

The simple fact is that cyclists and pedestrians rarely cause significant harm to others. So even if riding the wrong way up a one way street, cycling without lights at night, or riding on the pavement the person they put most at risk is themselves.

My old Mum used to love being taken out of the care home by family and taken to a place called Hollingwood lake that has a recreational trail around it. She could hobble along on her walking frame and just simply enjoy a few minutes out of the stuffy home.

Until the local cycling fraternity decided to use it as a speedway and she found herself, frail and hobbling, being terrorised by local assoles passing close at 20mph with no warning.

In her final months of life, her little bit of freedom, gone.

 

[Amarillo]

Or looking at it from another point of view perhaps we should be less judgemental and try to cut a bit of slack in situations which are difficult even if it slows us down a little, whether it's your fault or not, or you are right or wrong. It's obvious that cyclists also have a responsibility to be safe but when they make a mistake careful non-aggressive driving can save the situation without any drama. This rule can be applied to cars too.
Moving across to a different lane in traffic, is a difficult maneuver even for experienced cyclists, it's not like anyone let's cyclists over for fear of being held up ! That is why the highway code makes allowance for cyclists to right turn at roundabouts, while staying in the left lane all the way round.
I have cycled a little on the road with my children and it is very sad how dangerous it is, even on slower roads designated as national cycling routes. Massive improvements are needed in that respect. If we are to improve our environment, providing a safe cycling environment, to encourage more people to cycle instead of drive is much more important than most other suggested "solutions".

I once cycled along the A27 between Portsmouth and Havant. Staying on the A27 past the A3(M) slip road was perhaps the hardest manoeuvre I have ever had to do on a bike. From the verge I had to take the centre of the inside lane to discourage overtaking in the same lane. I then had to get to the centre of lane 2, and from there to the centre of lane 3 and remain there until past the junction.

It was hairy!

Google Maps

Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.

goo.gl

About a year later I discovered the parallel and rather good motor traffic free cycle path alongside Langstone Harbour (National Cycle Route 22).

 

[GrannyJen]

When I took up cycling again I was shocked at just how much hostility there was, not just from motorists but from all sectors, towards cyclists. Almost every social media page I popped on to, mention cyclists and just watch the posts of invective pile up.

I am afraid cyclists have a bad name in this country. We can talk all we like about the mismatch between an HGV and a bike, ask for all the changes we would like to the Highway Code, the roads for a cyclist will not become safer until there is more respect and understanding towards cyclists, and that respect will not come whilst so much disrespect is shown to other users of public area's by people on two wheels.

I'm not the only one who's old Mum has been terrorised by selfish tossers on bikes with no bells and no lights. Segregating cycleways will help enormously, but it will not help the image generally until we engender from school age onwards a recognition of the need to respect others on the road, or pathway, and a footpath means just that, on foot.

In the case above, of Hoillinwood Lake and my old Mum, my Brother in law wrote to the two local cycling clubs in Rochdale and Littleborough asking if they could help. I certainly remember in my day a cycling proficiency badge to be a thing of pride and the local cycling group from Herne Hill velodrome being very active in schools. Sadly though the response he got had him wishing he could swap his Bell Long ranger Helicopter for something more akin to an Apache armed with lycra-seeking missiles.

 

[Steve1]

When I took up cycling again I was shocked at just how much hostility there was, not just from motorists but from all sectors, towards cyclists. Almost every social media page I popped on to, mention cyclists and just watch the posts of invective pile up.

I am afraid cyclists have a bad name in this country. We can talk all we like about the mismatch between an HGV and a bike, ask for all the changes we would like to the Highway Code, the roads for a cyclist will not become safer until there is more respect and understanding towards cyclists, and that respect will not come whilst so much disrespect is shown to other users of public area's by people on two wheels.

I'm not the only one who's old Mum has been terrorised by selfish tossers on bikes with no bells and no lights. Segregating cycleways will help enormously, but it will not help the image generally until we engender from school age onwards a recognition of the need to respect others on the road, or pathway, and a footpath means just that, on foot.

In the case above, of Hoillinwood Lake and my old Mum, my Brother in law wrote to the two local cycling clubs in Rochdale and Littleborough asking if they could help. I certainly remember in my day a cycling proficiency badge to be a thing of pride and the local cycling group from Herne Hill velodrome being very active in schools. Sadly though the response he got had him wishing he could swap his Bell Long ranger Helicopter for something more akin to an Apache armed with lycra-seeking missiles.

I don't think this is really explains the bad attitude towards cyclists on the road, there are many inconsiderate drivers too and most of us have experience of at least one probably more, but we don't then take on the general attitude that all car drivers are bad and we should hate them all and tell them they shouldn't be on the road.
Where as you are implying that because some one has once seen a bad cyclist that explains their hatred of all of them in all situations forever.
In my opinion, the difference in attitude is very simply explained by the inconvenience of bikes delaying cars, that is why they are hated. The same applies to cars towing caravans. Hated just for being on the road and "in the way" !

 

[GrannyJen]

I don't think this is really explains the bad attitude towards cyclists on the road, there are many inconsiderate drivers too and most of us have experience of at least one probably more, but we don't then take on the general attitude that all car drivers are bad and we should hate them all and tell them they shouldn't be on the road.
Where as you are implying that because some one has once seen a bad cyclist that explains their hatred of all of them in all situations forever.
In my opinion, the difference in attitude is very simply explained by the inconvenience of bikes delaying cars, that is why they are hated. The same applies to cars towing caravans. Hated just for being on the road and "in the way" !

I'm not really into doing surveys but in the latest anti-cyclist invective-laden Facebook thread that I bothered to read, probably about 80% of the vitriol was because of perceived anti-social behaviour with dark coloured hoodie wearing bellends incapable of using a bell. My own particular blood-boiling is with the regular two-wheeled traffic along my local beach footpath that is clearly signed "No cycling" and which at a recent Parish Council meeting led to a deputation of local residents demanding action against the lycra-louts.

 

[WelshGas]

I don't think this is really explains the bad attitude towards cyclists on the road, there are many inconsiderate drivers too and most of us have experience of at least one probably more, but we don't then take on the general attitude that all car drivers are bad and we should hate them all and tell them they shouldn't be on the road.
Where as you are implying that because some one has once seen a bad cyclist that explains their hatred of all of them in all situations forever.
In my opinion, the difference in attitude is very simply explained by the inconvenience of bikes delaying cars, that is why they are hated. The same applies to cars towing caravans. Hated just for being on the road and "in the way" !

Disagree. I think it is more to do with the fact that cyclists, in the majority of cases, are unaccountable for their actions.
I live in a rural area, lots of farmers tractors etc. When on the road the majority, not all I admit, pull over when they see a line of traffic developing behind them. Whereas the local cycle clubs, 20+ in a group riding 3 abreast on a single carriageway will not and in fact you are more likely to get a 2 fingered salute. That shows their degree of “ responsible “ behaviour. I’ve even seen them fail to pull over or at least travel in single file, with an ambulance with blue lights going.

You can harp on all you like about the good cyclists, and there are many, but it’s the few that give cyclists a bad name and yet all the “good” cyclists do nothing but blame others instead of trying to instill a sense of responsibility in the others . Maybe cycling clubs should do a little community education so that the next generation understand the Highway Code and their own responsibilities when on public rights of way.

 

[Steve1]

Disagree. I think it is more to do with the fact that cyclists, in the majority of cases, are unaccountable for their actions.
I live in a rural area, lots of farmers tractors etc. When on the road the majority, not all I admit, pull over when they see a line of traffic developing behind them. Whereas the local cycle clubs, 20+ in a group riding 3 abreast on a single carriageway will not and in fact you are more likely to get a 2 fingered salute. That shows their degree of “ responsible “ behaviour. I’ve even seen them fail to pull over or at least travel in single file, with an ambulance with blue lights going.

You can harp on all you like about the good cyclists, and there are many, but it’s the few that give cyclists a bad name and yet all the “good” cyclists do nothing but blame others instead of trying to instill a sense of responsibility in the others . Maybe cycling clubs should do a little community education so that the next generation understand the Highway Code and their own responsibilities when on public rights of way.

Ha ha, I don't think I "harped" on about good cyclists I wouldn't be so smug as to try and self judge my own skill level. But I have training to all required levels for a bike, motorbike and car and do my very best to be safe, I have made mistakes before in / on all 3. But in all the time I have been cycling no-one has ever shouted to inform me I have done anything wrong except that in their opinion I shouldn't use that road because they could get past me. It's about half a mile long and my usual speed is around 15mph so I guess in the worst case I might have held them up by 2 minutes. (There are no lay-bys to pull over in before you mention that, but there is one safe place to overtake in the middle and when we reach that I will move in as far as is sensible while continuing my journey).
I recon we are only one step away from someone saying that I shouldn't be on the road because I don't pay road tax I've heard that one a few times before too

 

[WelshGas]

Ha ha, I don't think I "harped" on about good cyclists I wouldn't be so smug as to try and self judge my own skill level. But I have training to all required levels for a bike, motorbike and car and do my very best to be safe, I have made mistakes before in / on all 3. But in all the time I have been cycling no-one has ever shouted to inform me I have done anything wrong except that in their opinion I shouldn't use that road because they could get past me. It's about half a mile long and my usual speed is around 15mph so I guess in the worst case I might have held them up by 2 minutes. (There are no lay-bys to pull over in before you mention that, but there is one safe place to overtake in the middle and when we reach that I will move in as far as is sensible while continuing my journey).
I recon we are only one step away from someone saying that I shouldn't be on the road because I don't pay road tax I've heard that one a few times before too

You’ve just done it. You have done all the training , you are an excellent cyclist but I’m afraid you are tarred with the same brush as the irresponsible cyclists who don’t take responsibility for their actions when on Public roads.
A half mile road with no lay-by is a little different to the A road I referred to, 60mph speed limit , single carriageway, 10 mile section, with 20+ cyclists 3 or 4 abreast across the lane. A very busy road.

 

[Steve1]

You’ve just done it. You have done all the training , you are an excellent cyclist but I’m afraid you are tarred with the same brush as the irresponsible cyclists who don’t take responsibility for their actions when on Public roads.
A half mile road with no lay-by is a little different to the A road I referred to, 60mph speed limit , single carriageway, 10 mile section, with 20+ cyclists 3 or 4 abreast across the lane. A very busy road.

But you haven't tarred all car drivers with the same brush because one of them treated you badly before, why is that ? Do people think it's ok to shout at some one innocently cycling to work because someone on an similar vehicle treated them badly yesterday. If they do then they definitely need training. But I still think they are more bothered by there delay than my or anyone elses competence level. There own words give that away.

 

[WelshGas]

But you haven't tarred all car drivers with the same brush because one of them treated you badly before, why is that ? Do people think it's ok to shout at some one innocently cycling to work because someone on an similar vehicle treated them badly yesterday. If they do then they definitely need training. But I still think they are more bothered by there delay than my or anyone elses competence level. There own words give that away.

I don’t know why, but that is what is happening unfortunately.
And it’s not just vehicle drivers, pedestrians also have a similar attitude to cyclists using combined pedestrian/cycle pathways who believe they have right of way and can ignore cycle speed limits and traffic lights or pedestrian crossings.
Cyclists are being hammered from both sides. More and more regulations on vehicle drivers is not going to help, Cycle Clubs need to do more in the community to up the standing of cyclists in society.

 

[Velma's Dad]

...if someone is walking with or without a dog on a fixed or retractable lead...

Okay, now we're onto a real issue. Retractable leads. Amazing no-one's brought it up before. Those things are death traps, they cause huge numbers of accidents. (I don't have any actual data but ask any hospital A&E department apparently, and there was an article about it in the Daily Mail so it must be true). Anyone wishing to use one of those invisible menaces should be obliged to do a course first.

 

[Cali Phillip]

I don't think this is really explains the bad attitude towards cyclists on the road, there are many inconsiderate drivers too and most of us have experience of at least one probably more, but we don't then take on the general attitude that all car drivers are bad and we should hate them all and tell them they shouldn't be on the road.
Where as you are implying that because some one has once seen a bad cyclist that explains their hatred of all of them in all situations forever.
In my opinion, the difference in attitude is very simply explained by the inconvenience of bikes delaying cars, that is why they are hated. The same applies to cars towing caravans. Hated just for being on the road and "in the way" !

"The same applies to cars towing caravans. Hated just for being on the road and "in the way" !"

Also Californias, I have have experienced some people overtaking dangerously as they must feel I was "getting the in the way" even driving at the speed limit plus making good progress in the bends knowing the roads well. These were locals and tourists alike.
I am a cyclist but reluctant to cycle on the roads round us, too busy, narrow for A roads and fast, with effectively little roads policing due to very minimal numbers for the area so there's routine speeding and dangerous driving, then mix that with hesitant tourists, very limited overtaking available, few lay-bys to pull over and its a mix for some of the worst outcomes. The best time to cycle round here was 5 mile travel lockdown was in place !

 

[Steve1]

Okay, now we're onto a real issue. Retractable leads. Amazing no-one's brought it up before. Those things are death traps, they cause huge numbers of accidents. (I don't have any actual data but ask any hospital A&E department apparently, and there was an article about it in the Daily Mail so it must be true). Anyone wishing to use one of those invisible menaces should be obliged to do a course first.

A funny story, related to that. I was once cycling on a cycle path down a hill and ahead I saw a lady looking into the hedge. There was grass to the left then a hedge she was looking into it picking fruit I think. On the right was some grass then a bin. Nothing to be concerned about so I carried on. Then all of a sudden, I saw something catch the light across the path. So I did a quick (skid) stop just before it.
It turned out there was a tiny dog behind the bin, the lady hadn't seen me because she was picking her fruit and pulled tight across the path about a foot off the ground was a really thin lead for the dog.
It was like the finish line at school sports day. : -)

 

[GrannyJen]

A funny story, related to that. I was once cycling on a cycle path down a hill and ahead I saw a lady looking into the hedge. There was grass to the left then a hedge she was looking into it picking fruit I think. On the right was some grass then a bin. Nothing to be concerned about so I carried on. Then all of a sudden, I saw something catch the light across the path. So I did a quick (skid) stop just before it.
It turned out there was a tiny dog behind the bin, the lady hadn't seen me because she was picking her fruit and pulled tight across the path about a foot off the ground was a really thin lead for the dog.
It was like the finish line at school sports day. : -)

Those things are lethal. I had a really bad accident running and the thin lead was invisible. I've also gone over on my bike because of one.

 

[Amarillo]

Those things are lethal. I had a really bad accident running and the thin lead was invisible. I've also gone over on my bike because of one.

My parents had to call out the coastguard after someone's calf (bit of leg not baby cow) was badly ripped by one on the "wayfarers' way" alongside Chichester Harbour at high tide.

 

[Velma's Dad]

Just found this helpful summary of the HC changes.